Handicapped People in Certain Situations

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

My girlfriend is in a wheelchair (spinal injury, nothing mental), and from my angle, it's what the other guy said, people need to work around them, not the other way around, because there are really so, so, so many situations and everyday things that those with disabilities can't do, and they end up having to 'work around' the able bodied folks to be able to do just about anything. Heck, it can be a difficulty even going up the street if the schmucks doing the sidewalks don't actually make a low enough curb and just assume everybody can just step up over it onto the sidewalk.

I could go into it in detail, and get myself all riled up, but look at it this way... You had to put up with that for 2 hours, at the most. What does that poor soul have to put up with his entire life? One movie where you were disturbed the odd time just doesn't seem that important in the long run. Let him enjoy going to the movies, too.

I'm out of Thanks but that was an awesome post!

I'm not going to lie when I first read the OP I thought about how annoying that would be for everyone and that they should just stay home. But after that post fata me I feel like an a--.

edit: I went back to a Thanked post and un-thanked it so I could thank that one.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by flip

I sort of agree with HP here.

One thing I'd add is that you probably should have just got up, walked out and asked for a refund and explained why. Even tickets to another showing of the same movie could have been arranged.

Personally I don't think you should have to just sit there and "put up with it" because the guy lives a harder life than you, but clearly you can't turn around and tell him to STFU.

By getting an exchange/refund you let the guy moan during the movie and you can see the movie without being distracted.

Live and let live. No one should "have" to put up with anything but there are nicer ways of not putting up with it than telling the guy to STFU.




I 100% agree. The handler should not be putting this person in a situation where he will be (unintentionally) ruining the movie for numerous other patrons who payed full price in a full theatre on opening night. This particular case sounds fine though.

Everyone has the right to enjoy a movie in silence. Generally I believe the onus lies with the disrupter to find a solution where they can enjoy the movie without ruining it for everyone else. In the OP's case I think the handler did that. (ie took the ######ed guy to a cheap theatre, presumably sat at the back etc)


Personally, even though it sounds kind of cold and heartless, I don't want to be grossly inconvenienced by anyone, be they lesser abled or not. I'll use an example for context. There is a wheelchair "nazi" at the U of C. This lady will seriously run you over if you don't move out of the way for her and she'll literally yell at people who don't promptly make way for her. Her scooter moves quite quickly and as such goes faster than people walk. For some reason she feels that we should make way for her but I disagree and have had a few run-ins with this monster in the last 6 years. Clearly this lady thinks that the fact she is crippled means that she is entitled to something. I of course, completely disagree. I believe all people should be treated with the SAME courtesy regardless of physical or mental abilities. That is to say if someone is polite I'll let them pass me no matter who they are. For some reason this sad excuse of a woman believes that the fact that she is crippled entitles her to have the unique right of treating people like s*** just because her life is harder than mine (presumably her life is harder than mine because she can't walk)

Since most ######ed people aren't choosing where they go I generally blame the handler if I feel they've put the person in a position where their enjoyment is put front and center at the cost of the enjoyment of other patrons (especially when paying $$ is involved). I know it sounds insensitive but sometimes I don't buy the whole "their life is so hard, we should have to make sacrifices so that they can enjoy things too". Well I agree with the equal treatment of all patrons so regardless if the distraction is a compulsion or not, I believe all people have the right to enjoy something they payed for.

That being said, I'm talking about MAJOR distractions only and in many cases, like the one the OP mentioned, moving or asking for a refund is easily done.

I think consideration for others should always be considered. Whether that means moving from a moaning ######ed guy or making a point of renting movies instead of frequenting a theatre if the persons actions can disrupt the entire theatre and ruin their experience.


As always I should add I don't believe in euphamisms. I believe crippled people are cripples, ######ed people are ######ed. I use straight forward terminology in all of life. People don't pass away, they die. My grandfather didn't have a drinking problem he was a f***ing alcoholic.

If my use of these words offends you then you should consider this: I think I'm a pretty good human being, but I use words that YOU determined might be offensive to YOU. I don't mean them to be offensive because like I said I think I'm generally a pretty good guy.

If you'd rather I pay lip service and use your politically correct words but treat ######ed people and cripples like outcasts...

My point is that my words aren't hurting anyone, however my actions certainly could. What matters is actions, not my vocabulary.

If you honestly believe the words you use have no ability to hurt anyone, you're a moron. Utterly. It doesn't sound as if you use straight forward words, it sounds as if you intentionally use words others find offensive and that may hurt them because you find some sort of self-gratification in believing you're rebelling against whatever you think 'political correctness' is.

It doesn't sound cold-hearted or mean, or anything. It sounds sad and idiotic. It's a strange thing with you. In some posts, you come across like someone who knows what they're talking about, and in others, you come across as a total internet tool. It's confusing. My advice, stick with one act or another.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by flip

I 100% agree. The handler should not be putting this person in a situation where he will be (unintentionally) ruining the movie

he has a Handler? Like the person is an animal in a zoo or something? haha

Originally Posted by flip

My point is that my words aren't hurting anyone, however my actions certainly could. What matters is actions, not my vocabulary.

sorry, but words do hurt, sometimes.

[flip]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

If you honestly believe the words you use have no ability to hurt anyone, you're a moron. Utterly. It doesn't sound as if you use straight forward words, it sounds as if you intentionally use words others find offensive and that may hurt them because you find some sort of self-gratification in believing you're rebelling against whatever you think 'political correctness' is.

It doesn't sound cold-hearted or mean, or anything. It sounds sad and idiotic. It's a strange thing with you. In some posts, you come across like someone who knows what they're talking about, and in others, you come across as a total internet tool. It's confusing. My advice, stick with one act or another.

To be fair sometimes I just try to push other people's buttons.

However, I assure you this isn't one of those cases.

I'll admit when I'm with lesser abled people, I'll choose my words carefully because I don't want to offend them but personally I just don't know where to draw the line anymore.

Can I say handicapped? Lesser abled? Differently abled? Special? Mentally challenged? Mentally ######ed? ######ed? Crippled? Handicappable?

I've had this discussion with Dion about a dozen times and he's always way too stuck in his ways to even consider my side of the argument. I see that you might be the same.

You make the words offensive, not me. I get the fact that some people use these words to put down people with disabilities but I don't. I wouldn't say I'm taking the word back but I do believe that we shouldn't let the scum of our society control the way we talk.


I believe this is the best it has been said:

They say they're going to pre-board those passengers in need of special assistance. Cripples! Simple honest direct language. There is no shame attached to the word cripple that I can find in any dictionary. No shame attached to it, in fact it's a word used in bible translations. Jesus healed the cripples. Doesn't take seven words to describe that condition. But we don't have any cripples in this country anymore. We have The physically challenged. Is that a grotesque enough evasion for you? How about differently abled. I've heard them called that. Differently abled! You can't even call these people handicapped anymore. They'll say, "Were not handicapped. Were handicapable!" These poor people have been bullted by the system into believing that if you change the name of the condition, somehow you'll change the condition. Well, hey cousin, ppsssspptttttt. Doesn't happen. Doesn't happen.

[flip]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

he has a Handler? Like the person is an animal in a zoo or something? haha




sorry, but words do hurt, sometimes.

Sorry if handler is offensive. I actually thought that it seemed pretty rude.

However I've been told that I'm an ahole when it comes to this stuff so I just used language that had already been used in the thread.

Somebody said it before me or I wouldn't have ever thought to have used that word.

EDIT: sorry my bad. The OP used the word helper. I misread and thought it said handler. I thought handler seemed like a pretty offensive thing to say. My bad. I was intentionally trying to use the same vocab as the OP and screwed up. I was actually trying to not be offensive. I'll edit my previous posts.

As far as words hurting, they only hurt if they are meant to hurt or are misconstrued to hurt.

Do you watch comedy? Have you ever seen a comedian use the word n***** ?

Did it offend you? Do you think that people should never use the word n***** regardless of context? That it is always an offensive word and even if used in a non-offensive way it should be illegal?

I guess you would answer yes to all of those then because you can't seem to distinguish offensive uses of a word from non-offensive uses of a word. Funny part about that is that words like cripple and ######ed weren't originally meant to be offensive, whereas n****** has always been an offensive word. However it is all about the context it is used in. Something you seem to be incapable of differentiating based on you reply.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

he has a Handler? Like the person is an animal in a zoo or something? haha

Doesn't Obama have handlers?

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by flip

Sorry if handler is offensive. I actually thought that is pretty rude.

However I've been told that I'm an ahole when it comes to this stuff so I just used language that had already been used in the thread.

Somebody said it before me or I wouldn't have ever thought to have used that word.

As far as words hurting, they only hurt if they are meant to hurt or are misconstrued to hurt.

Do you watch comedy? Have you ever seen a comedian use the word n***** ?

Did it offend you? Do you think that people should never use the word n***** regardless of context? That it is always an offensive word and even if used in a non-offensive way it should be illegal?

I guess you would answer yes to all of those then because you can't seem to distinguish offensive uses of a word from non-offensive uses of a word. Funny part about that is that words like cripple and ######ed weren't originally meant to be offensive, whereas n****** has always been an offensive word. However it is all about the context it is used in. Something you seem to be incapable of differentiating based on you reply.

why are you censoring your use of n i g g e r if you think words don't mean anything?

a black guy referring to himself as a n igger is a lot different than some able-bodied person referring to disabled people as cripples and ######s.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by flip

To be fair sometimes I just try to push other people's buttons.

However, I assure you this isn't one of those cases.

I'll admit when I'm with lesser abled people, I'll choose my words carefully because I don't want to offend them but personally I just don't know where to draw the line anymore.

Can I say handicapped? Lesser abled? Differently abled? Special? Mentally challenged? Mentally ######ed? ######ed? Crippled? Handicappable?

I've had this discussion with Dion about a dozen times and he's always way too stuck in his ways to even consider my side of the argument. I see that you might be the same.

You make the words offensive, not me. I get the fact that some people use these words to put down people with disabilities but I don't. I wouldn't say I'm taking the word back but I do believe that we shouldn't let the scum of our society control the way we talk.


I believe this is the best it has been said:

I don't make the word offensive, people who are actually in wheelchairs or have disabilities do. I'm not stuck in my ways, I'm just a guy who actually happens to have experience around those with disabilities, not a guy stuck in a teenage mind set online that thinks he is rebelling against society by using words that he deems aren't 'PC.'

You can say disabled. It's simple. Don't come online and claim you won't use offensive terms in front of disabled people because you're afraid to offend them, then go ahead and use them behind their backs like a schmuck. The only 'scum of society' I see in here is the kid who thinks he's more enlightened than others by using reprehensible terms on the internet. Honestly, I'd break your face if you tried to pull that junk around someone I knew. I guess that's why it's easier for you to type it out on here instead.

[flip]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

why are you censoring your use of n i g g e r if you think words don't mean anything?

a black guy referring to himself as a n igger is a lot different than some able-bodied person referring to disabled people as cripples and ######s.

The forum censors the word not me.

I've never been told by a disabled person that cripple is offensive.

I have been told that "special" (as in special olympics) is pretty damn offensive and I've been told that mentally challenged is offensive. I've never talked to a person in a wheelchair for long enough to get their views on the matter but even if I did, talking to a "handicapped" person is hardly a consensus and neither is talking to two family members of "mentally different" people. The people I knew liked "disabled" but for all I know other "disabled" people might find it offensive.

After that I just went back to ######ed because it was the original terminology and I honestly couldn't keep up with what is PC these days.

If all of society can come up with and agree on terminology that isn't ridiculous, and that won't CHANGE after 2 years and somebody decides a new, more vague euphemism is needed, I'll change my vocab. I'm serious.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by flip

I've never been told by a disabled person that cripple is offensive.

I have been told that "special" (as in special olympics) is pretty damn offensive and I've been told that mentally challenged is offensive. I've never talked to a person in a wheelchair for long enough to get their views on the matter but even if I did, talking to a "handicapped" person is

hmmmmm

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by flip

I've never been told by a disabled person that cripple is offensive.

a black guy has never told me Ni#$% is offensive

a gay man never told me fa ggot was offensive

LOL

[flip]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

I don't make the word offensive, people who are actually in wheelchairs or have disabilities do. I'm not stuck in my ways, I'm just a guy who actually happens to have experience around those with disabilities, not a guy stuck in a teenage mind set online that thinks he is rebelling against society by using words that he deems aren't 'PC.'

You can say disabled. It's simple. Don't come online and claim you won't use offensive terms in front of disabled people because you're afraid to offend them, then go ahead and use them behind their backs like a schmuck. The only 'scum of society' I see in here is the kid who thinks he's more enlightened than others by using reprehensible terms on the internet. Honestly, I'd break your face if you tried to pull that junk around someone I knew. I guess that's why it's easier for you to type it out on here instead.

So, who determines what is offensive?

I've been told that disabled is offensive by people online but the only two people I've ever met that had a "######ed" son preferred "disabled".

I've been told that mentally challenged is more PC than ######ed or disabled.

What about "special"? Will you act all tough if I say special around your loved one?

What about handicapped? Can I say that? OR will you break my face for saying that?

I'm not even kidding. You tell me exactly what ALL disabled (both crippled and ######ed) people want to be called because I honestly don't know.

If we can have a concensus from ALL differently abled people that "disabled" is ok to use I'll start using that. However, the minute anyone tells me I can't use disabled anymore, or some ahole breaks my face for calling his _______ disabled, I'm coming back to you and looking for answers.

One last question. Can I use disabled for both mentally challenged and handicapped people? Will handicapped people be offended if I group them with mentally challenged people by using the same word to describe both groups? OR is disabled only ok for handicapped people? WHat do mentally challenged people like? I've been told that disabled is ok but then I've been told that words like mentally challenged are offensive.

It may sound like I'm being facetious but I'm dead serious. If we can all agree on disabled I'll use it, but once I start using it I'm not changing.

[Buzzard]

Uh oh.....now this is getting good like I knew it would!

[flip]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

a black guy has never told me Ni#$% is offensive

a gay man never told me fa ggot was offensive

LOL

I know a gay guy who doesn't get offended if I call him a f***** when me and the rest of his friends are breaking his balls.

If he's walking down the street with his boyfriend and is called a f****** he gets pretty offended.

CONTEXT!!!!!



Try and learn to read things in context it'll help keep this discussion from turning into a flame war. I hope you are smart enough to know what I meant and your lame reply is just going to make this worse.

Does making me look like and ahole bring you joy, even if you are intentionally taking me out of context?


FlameGimp I should add that I now think you are a pretty big hypocrite. You are frequently one of the most offensive people on CP and I think it is great. I like pushing the limits of free speech and tastefullness.

Apparently you only like offensive things that don't offend you. (even though I'm not even trying to be offensive!!!!) So I guess you only like censoring things that you don't like, however if you can offend all the people you like.

FlamesGimp do you like South Park? If you do then you should realize that what Isaac Hayes did in regards to the scientology and the show is no different than what you're doing here.


Oh, one last thing. HP shouldn't you be breaking Flames Gimp's face? He used the word gimp in his friggin user name. Doesn't that offend you? Seriously, a guy with GIMP in his username is telling me what is offensive. (FTR it doesn't offend me that FG used gimp in his username)

[valo403]

Originally Posted by flip

So, who determines what is offensive?

I've been told that disabled is offensive by people online but the only two people I've ever met that had a "######ed" son preferred "disabled".

I've been told that mentally challenged is more PC than ######ed or disabled.

What about "special"? Will you act all tough if I say special around your loved one?

What about handicapped? Can I say that? OR will you break my face for saying that?

I'm not even kidding. You tell me exactly what ALL disabled (both crippled and ######ed) people want to be called because I honestly don't know.

If we can have a concensus from ALL differently abled people that "disabled" is ok to use I'll start using that. However, the minute anyone tells me I can't use disabled anymore, or some ahole breaks my face for calling his _______ disabled, I'm coming back to you and looking for answers.

One last question. Can I use disabled for both mentally challenged and handicapped people? Will handicapped people be offended if I group them with mentally challenged people by using the same word to describe both groups? OR is disabled only ok for handicapped people? WHat do mentally challenged people like? I've been told that disabled is ok but then I've been told that words like mentally challenged are offensive.

It may sound like I'm being facetious but I'm dead serious. If we can all agree on disabled I'll use it, but once I start using it I'm not changing.

I'd say pretty much any word you use will be offensive due to the fact that you can't seem to not act like a f'in tool.

[Dion]

[flip]

Originally Posted by valo403

I'd say pretty much any word you use will be offensive due to the fact that you can't seem to not act like a f'in tool.

No I'm totally serious.

I'll make it easy. I'll list all words frequently used to describe the two groups of people we're talking about and you tell me which ones are offensive.

######ed
Slow
Differently abled
Special
Mentally challenged
handicapped
crippled
handicappable
uniquely abled
Exceptional
Mentally ill
mental ######ation
developmentally disabled
mental handicap


That isn't even all of them I just got tired of searching.

Now quote my post and go through term by term and tell me which ones are appropriate.

I guarantee some of the ones you find offensive aren't, and some of the ones you don't find offensive are.


INteresting. You guys seem to be experts on what is and isn't offensive but the American Association of Intellectual and Developmental Disabilities say:

IS INTELLECTUAL DISABILITY THE SAME AS MENTAL ######ATION? WHY DO PROGRAMS STILL SAY MENTAL ######ATION?
Mental ######ation and intellectual disability are two names for the same thing. But intellectual disability is gaining currency as the preferred term. In fact, the American Association on Mental ######ation changed its name in 2007 to the American Association on Intellectual and Developmental Disabilities.

It is crucial that ‘mental ######ation’ and ‘intellectual disability’ should be precisely synonymous in definition and in all related classification because current federal and state laws contain the term ‘mental ######ation’. That is the term used in law and public policy to determine eligibility for state and federal programs, including the Individuals With Disabilities Education Act—IDEA (2004), Social Security Disability Insurance, and Medicaid Home and Community Based Waiver.

Also, the term ‘mental ######ation’ is used for citizenship and legal status, civil and criminal justice, early care and education, training and employment, income support, health care, and housing and zoning.

They do say that part of the reason they changed their name is because the terms they use now are "less offensive" but that is only one reason among 4 or 5. And they frequently stress that the reason they changed it was not because of it being offensive but because they wanted to stress that:

The 1992 definition was the first to view intellectual disability as a condition that could be enhanced by provision of supports, rather than as a static, lifelong disability.

So it seems the primary reason for the change is because the view of the disability has changed and they thought mental ######ation sounded too permanent while Intellectual/Developmental Disability is less strict in its definition.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by flip

Oh, one last thing. HP shouldn't you be breaking Flames Gimp's face? He used the word gimp in his friggin user name. Doesn't that offend you? Seriously, a guy with GIMP in his username is telling me what is offensive. (FTR it doesn't offend me that FG used gimp in his username)

context! I can call my self anything I want, doesn't mean any idiot can call me that...

you telling me if some stranger walked up and called you an as shole, you would be ok with that, because you once refered to yourself as an as shole?

[flip]

Originally Posted by fotze

How about mick?

I know what you're trying to do but I'm serious.

If you are joking I won't care, my friends call me a wop all the time.

If you are trying to demean me then I'll be offended.

I try and look at the context of how the word is said, instead of just making broad judgements.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by flip

No I'm totally serious.

I'll make it easy. I'll list all words frequently used to describe the two groups of people we're talking about and you tell me which ones are offensive.

######ed
Slow
Differently abled
Special
Mentally challenged
handicapped
crippled
handicappable
uniquely abled
Exceptional
Mentally ill
mental ######ation
developmentally disabled
mental handicap


That isn't even all of them I just got tired of searching.

Now quote my post and go through term by term and tell me which ones are appropriate.

I guarantee some of the ones you find offensive aren't, and some of the ones you don't find offensive are.

What you seem to be missing is that my previous post has nothing to do with the words you choose and everything to do with the manner in which you behave. Based on your behavior here, which is quite tool like, I've come to the conclusion that any word you chose would probably come across offensive simply through the way in which you present it.

I can grasp your argument, it's not illegitimate, but the way you've presented it here makes it pretty much impossible for any point you have to be heard over the ######ness. Compare the way you've presented your issue to the way the OP presented theirs and the associated responses. I think you'll notice a pretty apparent difference in both.