How many people here believe in God, Heaven and angels, Hell and Satan and his demons

[peter12]

Originally Posted by DFO

IMO religion is for the weak minded.

So what is for the strong-minded? Nietzche? Darwin?

[J pold]

Page 5? Where the hell is Cheese?

[alltherage]

Originally Posted by valo403

Here's the thing with that argument, I can easily run a find and replace and swap God with Easter Bunny in that passage and to lots of people it's equally as plausible.

Haha, ok you are going to have to explain this. I think I understand that you are saying that the "healing, enrichin, etc" is all in the eye of the beholder... meaning, and Atheist may think they happen because of the power of suggestion or some other such thing.

That's fine, but I'm telling you from a Catholic perspective where these things are very real.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by moncton golden flames

forgive me for ignorance, but doesn't the church ask for money on behalf of gods wishes for the church? i do not go to church, so i really don't know.

The Vatican has one of the larger piles of money in the world in it's own bank . . . . . . which makes you wonder about the morality of an institution like the Vatican giving lectures to taxpayer-funded governments about "doing more in the world."

Should institutions like the Vatican hold large quantities of cash and real estate and other investments give their self-declared mandates?

Cowperson

[valo403]

Originally Posted by alltherage

Haha, ok you are going to have to explain this. I think I understand that you are saying that the "healing, enrichin, etc" is all in the eye of the beholder... meaning, and Atheist may think they happen because of the power of suggestion or some other such thing.

That's fine, but I'm telling you from a Catholic perspective where these things are very real.

Oh ya, from a Catholic perspective I get that the power to do all those things is placed in God. My point is just that with an omnipotent being like that I find it equally as plausible to see the bunny with the basket of chocolates as the all powerful lord and the guy with the long hair and the robe as the fiction of the imagination.

I mean it all comes from what are essentially campfire stories passed down over many generations, so buying into the details has always seemed a bit bizarre to me. I think the message often gets lost due to childish battles over details, which is probably why I don't agree with modern organized religion.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by moncton golden flames

forgive me for ignorance, but doesn't the church ask for money on behalf of gods wishes for the church? i do not go to church, so i really don't know.

I think you're confusing "The Church" with evangelists.

Originally Posted by alltherage

Think about it like this:

One person makes a really cool waterfall in sand toward the ocean, Turns, bumps, moats, lakes, etc etc etc. When he allows the water to flow, it follows his exact path to the water. Every time he pours it, it goes the same way.

Another person just pours the water and lets it make it's own unique path to the water. After each time, he "resets" the sand, and pours again, waiting to see which way it goes.

God doesn't want a bunch of worshipping drones. He wants us to find our own way to the water. Some take longer, some may never get there. Some go straight, others make big turns and pool in certain areas. It's freedom of choice, and its what makes us unique and in God's image.

So it's like we're the ultimate reality tv show for God? He just lets us loose to make our own decisions/mistakes/successes and sits back and watches us on the biggest jumbotron ever...

So what was the point in making us (if you follow creation vs evolution... but that's another thread) if it wasn't just for god's amusement?

Personally, I believe that I am the master of my own destiny and if I'm a "good" person I will lead a fairly happy life and that's all that matters.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

The Vatican has one of the larger piles of money in the world in it's own bank . . . . . . which makes you wonder about the morality of an institution like the Vatican giving lectures to taxpayer-funded governments about "doing more in the world."

Should institutions like the Vatican hold large quantities of cash and real estate and other investments give their self-declared mandates?

Cowperson

I really agree with this, somewhere along the line the Catholic Church forgot about the vow of poverty that priests used to have to take and forgot the charity first requirements of the church.

One of the reasons why I left the church was based around my perception that the gathering of wealth and possession by the vatican was wrong.

The other was the treatment of my brother whom the church refused to bury in their graveyard because our Parrish priest decided not to leave the golf course to baptize him before he died.

At that point my whole family left the church.

I still believe in God, I still believe in the inherant potential for the church and organized religion to be a positive force of good and change in this world, however I also believe that the church needs another Martin Luthor style reformation before I would ever consider returning.

[moncton golden flames]

Originally Posted by DFO

IMO religion is for the weak minded.

i used to say this myself. then i grew up and realized that it doesn't matter what other people believe in, it matters what i believe. i learned to accept other and their beliefs, no matter how crazy i think they might be, as equals. i am no better than a religious fanatic, i am just of different belief, plain and simple.

[North East Goon]

The distinction between heaven and hell to me is my sub-concious deciding between which is the wrong or right thing to do in every aspect of life. I believe in a higher power that is based upon energy or spirit within all things living. If that is what god is then so be it. Clearly I smoked too much weed in my early 20's!

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by North East Goon

The distinction between heaven and hell to me is my sub-concious deciding between which is the wrong or right thing to do in every aspect of life. I believe in a higher power that is based upon energy or spirit within all things living. Clearly I smoked too much weed in my early 20's!

Duuude you need to share more.

[Weiser Wonder]

I really don't know but my best guesses were:
Atheist
No Eternal destination
Unnecessary (very sure on this one)
Multiple paths (this one I'm pretty sure about)

I'm also unsure if I want to be wrong or not.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by peter12

So what is for the strong-minded? Nietzche? Darwin?

Franken. Stossel. Olbermann. O'Really.

The great thinkers of our time IMO.

[calgaryrocks]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I really agree with this, somewhere along the line the Catholic Church forgot about the vow of poverty that priests used to have to take and forgot the charity first requirements of the church.

One of the reasons why I left the church was based around my perception that the gathering of wealth and possession by the vatican was wrong.

The other was the treatment of my brother whom the church refused to bury in their graveyard because our Parrish priest decided not to leave the golf course to baptize him before he died.

At that point my whole family left the church.

I still believe in God, I still believe in the inherant potential for the church and organized religion to be a positive force of good and change in this world, however I also believe that the church needs another Martin Luthor style reformation before I would ever consider returning.

...or find a different church. hehe.
some churches have issues with leadership (ok, alot, its human nature to take control and not listen to what God wants them to do with the church).
i agree, the vatican holding all this money doesn't seem right, they could be doing alot of great things with all the money. my church gives to missionaries, pays the staff etc and struggles to meet a budget. a member of my church got laid off this year because of lack of tithing. if we want people to lead us as a church, they need to be compensated somehow.
as for the God wanting money thing, its not that God wants our money, its us showing that money doesn't control us, that we trust God to provide if give up everything. basically its part of putting God first, and ourselves not-first. thats a pretty solid part of what God wants, us to show him love, to choose him, when we don't have to.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by alltherage

God fills people with the holy spirit, which is a euphoric feeling of being one with the Lord. He communicates with people, and heals the sick at times when prayed upon. He enriches people's lives, helps heal people emotionally, gives people strength, and promises Heaven for those who follow him/love their neighbor/repent etc etc etc.

All that still doesn't make him real or anything that is detached from the imagination.

Originally Posted by alltherage

The Easter Bunny leaves a dime under your pillow, and is your parents pretending.

So because there's no pretend game with God that makes him more real?

Originally Posted by alltherage

The Pope doesn't come to his buddys and say "I do this so people get a cheap thrill... but just don't tell the church goers!"

How do you know? What makes you so sure he isn't having a great laugh as he goes over the books. As CowPerson mentioned if he was to truly believe in what he preaches he would be redistributing the wealth.

He sure as hell isn't saying to his buddies "I do this for free".

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

Franken. Stossel. Olbermann. O'Really.

The great thinkers of our time IMO.

Al Franken and Keith Olbermann?

[WesternCanadaKing]

I don't get how people could look forward to the what the Bible describes as Heaven. It doesn't matter how nice it is, and eternity is a long fataing time, I can't imagine living for an eternity. Existance would have no meaning, all the things that gave you pleasure on Earth would become pointless without death, and honestly, after a while you'd probably just end up standing in the same spot going bat**** insane forever. I get (hopefully) 70 to 90 years of fun and excitement in which I'm a good person and kind to my fellow man... and I'm rewarded by an eternity of meaningless existance. Send me back to Earth please.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by WesternCanadaKing

I don't get how people could look forward to the what the Bible describes as Heaven. It doesn't matter how nice it is, and eternity is a long fataing time, I can't imagine living for an eternity. Existance would have no meaning, all the things that gave you pleasure on Earth would become pointless without death, and honestly, after a while you'd probably just end up standing in the same spot going bat**** insane forever. I get (hopefully) 70 to 90 years of fun and excitement in which I'm a good person and kind to my fellow man... and I'm rewarded by an eternity of meaningless existance. Send me back to Earth please.

Maybe in Heaven time runs at a different speed.... like 1 minute in Heaven equals 100 years on earth..

Same with Hell... except the reverse.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by peter12

Al Franken and Keith Olbermann?

Yes, Al Franken and Keith Olbermann. I once changed my entire believe system just by watching one episode of the Countdown. If Olbermann was leading me to certain death, I would follow laughing at his Sarah Palin jokes the whole way. "Haha, Keith, she is stupid. I agree!"

[troutman]

Heaven - being re-united with relatives

Hell - being re-united with relatives for eternity