How many people here believe in God, Heaven and angels, Hell and Satan and his demons

[alltherage]

Originally Posted by photon

I wouldn't classify myself as an atheist, but I can see several reasons for that kind of advertising.

1) People are social animals and sharing your thoughts, needs, desires, beliefs, hopes, likes, dislikes, etc is a basic human need. Just becomes someone is an atheist doesn't mean they are immune to a basic human need.

2) Atheists are actively marginalized and discriminated against by some groups and individuals, so just like having a gay pride parade is in some ways a response to oppression, signs like this area also a response. It's a way of saying "my view doesn't deserve to be discriminated against, and has every right to be heard".

3) For those who might be undecided, or feel trapped in their religion, signs like this can give the message that being an atheist is ok, that it's not evil. In today's culture it's easier for some to come out of the closet about their sexuality than it is to come out of the closet about their disbelief.

4) For some atheists they conclude that religion results in a net harm against society, so signs like this are an attempt to encourage a benefit to society by having people convert away from religion.

Plus, advertising works.

Very enlightening. I honestly have to thank you... although I am out of thankses again () this was a great explanation.

You... you're good you.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

Even though the basic premise of all religions, organized or not, is faith in the unproveable there is probably some basic desire/hope residing in most of us that it all doesn't end in a shallow grave.

Or, we might call that one "fear."

I get the feeling my dogs don't contemplate their own demise, therefore they do not fear it and, consequently, dogs haven't come up with elaborate belief systems to give themselves the comfort of an after-life, good or bad.

The curse of sentience is that we can understand the finality of death and therefore fear it. We can't accept it that finality so we invent comfort food.

Cowperson

If animals ever revolve to that point they're going to lose the best part of themselves.

Your right, one of the great guidlines is the definition of a simple moral guidline whether its driven by a belief in reward after death, or by selflessness encouraged by a belief in god.

But one of the biggest cripplers out there is that we can't seem to combine our abilities to make a leap of faith when it comes to beliefs with the reduction in fear over the end of our lives and our ability to control those leaps of faith.

In other words, sh%t man we think to much.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by alltherage

People think that because they can't see God that He's like the easter bunny or something

I guess the question then is how is he any different?

The evidence for both of their existence is the same.

[photon]

Originally Posted by alltherage

Very enlightening. I honestly have to thank you... although I am out of thankses again () this was a great explanation.

You... you're good you.

Well I did leave out number 5..

5) Some people have a need to feel superior to others and/or be right where others are wrong, so they're motivated to put up a sign to demonstrate that.

No belief system (or lack of belief system) is immune to jerks.

[Kipper is King]

OK, I will wade into the murky waters of another CP religion thread.

I'm a Catholic who believes in God. :: braces for bashing ::

But let me be clear. I realize the Catholic church has not been perfect- in fact parts of the Church's history have been downright ugly. We all know that.

The thing is, the notion of God, of someone who created the world around us makes sense to me. I think the universe is too awesomely complex to be merely some random particle reaction- I think that the creation of it had to be controlled by someone.

Catholic docterine such as a belief in Jesus generally makes sense to me. I am comfortable in my faith.

That being said, I am not one of those people who will start screaming Bible verses everytime someone mentions evolution, for instance. I think science is essential for understanding of our world. But to me, my faith as I interpret it does not counter that. Science and religion can be compatible.

OK, so that's my religion in a mustard seed!

[moncton golden flames]

"religion has actually convinced people, there is an invisible man, living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day and the invisible man has a special list of 10 things he does not want you to do. if you do any of these 10 things, he has a special place full of fire, smoke, burning, torture, anguish, where he will send you to live, suffer, burn, choke, scream and cry for ever and ever....til the end of time....but he loves you. he loves you and he needs money, he always needs money. he's all powerful, all perfect, all knowing and all wise and somehow, he just can't handle money. religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes and they always need a little more. now, you talk about a good bullsh*t story...holy sh*t."

george carlin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

[alltherage]

Originally Posted by Bagor

I guess the question then is how is he any different?

The evidence for both of their existence is the same.

To set the tone for this little blurb, I am not attached to this argument, I am simply making it as best I can to play "devil's advocate"... although in this case... "God's advocate."

God fills people with the holy spirit, which is a euphoric feeling of being one with the Lord. He communicates with people, and heals the sick at times when prayed upon. He enriches people's lives, helps heal people emotionally, gives people strength, and promises Heaven for those who follow him/love their neighbor/repent etc etc etc.

The Easter Bunny leaves a dime under your pillow, and is your parents pretending.

The Pope doesn't come to his buddys and say "I do this so people get a cheap thrill... but just don't tell the church goers!"

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by photon

I wouldn't classify myself as an atheist, but I can see several reasons for that kind of advertising.

1) People are social animals and sharing your thoughts, needs, desires, beliefs, hopes, likes, dislikes, etc is a basic human need. Just becomes someone is an atheist doesn't mean they are immune to a basic human need.

2) Atheists are actively marginalized and discriminated against by some groups and individuals, so just like having a gay pride parade is in some ways a response to oppression, signs like this area also a response. It's a way of saying "my view doesn't deserve to be discriminated against, and has every right to be heard".

3) For those who might be undecided, or feel trapped in their religion, signs like this can give the message that being an atheist is ok, that it's not evil. In today's culture it's easier for some to come out of the closet about their sexuality than it is to come out of the closet about their disbelief.

4) For some atheists they conclude that religion results in a net harm against society, so signs like this are an attempt to encourage a benefit to society by having people convert away from religion.

Plus, advertising works.

To me, I think it just shows that the problems alot of people have with religion - especially organized religion - are not because of the religion itself, nor with people's way of following specifically religion, but rather with humanity itself.

Democracy is a bad form of government, except for all the other forms. When democracy gives you a result you dislike, many blame democracy itself. Many people who practice democracy are idiots, and Democracy can result in heinous things, such as Hitler being elected into government.

Does this make Democracy bad? Most would disagree (and some would, and have decent arguments for why they think so. Many others would just sound stupid, well, because they are). But the vast majority - especially those who live in a Democracy - of us still think it's a good idea, just that it needs to have a close eye kept on it to avoid the excesses.

Unfortunately nowadays, especially on the internet, this kind of subtlety is not afforded to Religion. People nowadays often make really stupid arguments as to why religion is bad (and they tend to bolster those who make good arguments that religion is bad, not helping the level of discussion. Much like Politics). Notice how I pointed out that those who dislike democracy tend to be people who aren't living in a democracy? It's the same with religion - those who loudly argue against it, tend to be those who never lived in a real religion.
Most americans nowadays, due to the lack of real education regarding religion, have a very warped view of it. This includes those who are currently actively religous. They tend to think of it as being judgemental, a focus on actions, and a political force - and they view it as being outwardly focused, what can we change about others. What it should be (in my view), is more inwardly focused in regards to judgement, and outwardly focused in regards to charity.



I'm glad this argument isn't devolving too quickly. It gives me hope in the CP community.

[CaptainCrunch]

George Carlin really gets things confused when it comes to belief versus organized religion.

God doesn't need your money, thats organized religion.

There's nothing the matter with the 10 commandments

Yes there has to be a perceived price for breaking 10 pretty common sense rules.

God knows if heaven and hell exist, we're just guessing.

[alltherage]

Originally Posted by moncton golden flames

he loves you and he needs money, he always needs money. he's all powerful, all perfect, all knowing and all wise and somehow, he just can't handle money. religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes and they always need a little more. now, you talk about a good bullsh*t story...holy sh*t."

george carlin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

I understand that this is tongue in cheek, but money thing is just stupid. How would Churches pay for maintainance, staff, priests, charities, taxes, etc etc etc without donations? Catholic Churches don't demand money, they solicit donations. The basket can pass you by every Sunday for your entire life and noone would say a word.

[Knalus]

I don't understand how George Carlin has become some sort of philosopher to some people.

[moncton golden flames]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

God doesn't need your money, thats organized religion.

forgive me for ignorance, but doesn't the church ask for money on behalf of gods wishes for the church? i do not go to church, so i really don't know.

[CaptainCrunch]

No the church is asking for money to support itself and its various charitable pursuits. They're not saying that god wants or needs or requires your money and if you don't give it your going to hell.

Evangelical Churches on T.V. aren't an accurate representation of things. God doesn't talk directly to your priest or pastor demanding money.

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by moncton golden flames

forgive me for ignorance, but doesn't the church ask for money on behalf of gods wishes for the church? i do not go to church, so i really don't know.

He sees other people who can use your money. Just like the government does.

Thing is, I trust the churches motives more than the governments.

[alltherage]

Originally Posted by moncton golden flames

forgive me for ignorance, but doesn't the church ask for money on behalf of gods wishes for the church? i do not go to church, so i really don't know.

No, God doesn't ask for money. The Church does. And there are different envelopes for different things:

Church Maintainance
Mission Mexico (builing schools, clean water, housing, etc)
Donations to Seminaries (Preist College)
etc.

[DFO]

IMO religion is for the weak minded.

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by DFO

IMO religion is for the weak minded.

Why?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by DFO

IMO religion is for the weak minded.

IMO people who spout crap like this have no idea what they're talking about.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by alltherage

God fills people with the holy spirit, which is a euphoric feeling of being one with the Lord. He communicates with people, and heals the sick at times when prayed upon. He enriches people's lives, helps heal people emotionally, gives people strength, and promises Heaven for those who follow him/love their neighbor/repent etc etc etc.

The Easter Bunny leaves a dime under your pillow, and is your parents pretending.

Here's the thing with that argument, I can easily run a find and replace and swap God with Easter Bunny in that passage and to lots of people it's equally as plausible.

[alltherage]

Originally Posted by DFO

IMO religion is for the weak minded.

Terrible post, and wrong thread man. We're having an actual discussion here, not pigeon-holing other people's beliefs.

A comment like that comes from a weak mind, my friend.