Tsuu T'ina members to vote on SW Ring Road today - Page 2 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

GreatWhiteEbola · 06-30-2009, 02:27 PM

mikey_the_redneck · 06-30-2009, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flip

I intentionally posted it like that waiting for this exact response. I can't believe it came so quickly. I grew up in Regina, you'll have to excuse my hatred for natives. I'm sure there are some decent natives around, I've just never seen or met any of them.

Now your post should go "but it is all the white man's fault they are like that, it is systematic and not their fault, we need to try and help them not make things worse".

I have had a similar experience.

jammies · 06-30-2009, 02:33 PM

So much bitterness; I have proposed in the past that the reservations be eventually phased out, but right now that is the band's land and they can choose to do whatever they want with it. Just because it would be a lot more convenient for the city to have the ring road go there doesn't have anything to do with how the vote should go. There are things of value other than money to be considered.

As far as the casino goes, I'm not a big fan but that is again something decided outside the city's jurisdiction and petty power games are not going to make it go away - does it really sound like a good idea to make enemies of the band to score some political points? I think even the current city council has more sense than that.

Old Yeller · 06-30-2009, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jammies

I think even the current city council has more sense than that.

Woah woah woah... let's not go crazy here.

RougeUnderoos · 06-30-2009, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flip

I grew up in Regina, you'll have to excuse my hatred for natives.

Laugh. At least you are honest. "I grew up in a small town, so I'm a racist".

Now yr post should go "but it is all the white man's fault they are like that, it is systematic and not their fault, we need to try and help them La

Thunderball · 06-30-2009, 02:39 PM

Personally, I think the Tsuu Tina have a lot more to lose by making an enemy of the City of Calgary than the opposite.

What if Calgary doesn't feel like maintaining its connections to the reserve or to their commercial district? Same with water and emergency services?

Its win/win if they get this road done. Its lose/lose if they don't.

jammies · 06-30-2009, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Yeller

Woah woah woah... let's not go crazy here.

I know I know - Crazy Dave and the Davettes might get up to just about any shenanigans. However, as long as cutting off access to the reserve doesn't involve new and interesting ways to spend money, it won't even occur to them to start a war.

Boblobla · 06-30-2009, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Laugh. At least you are honest. "I grew up in a small town, so I'm a racist".

Now yr post should go "but it is all the white man's fault they are like that, it is systematic and not their fault, we need to try and help them La

Help them La?

JustAnotherGuy · 06-30-2009, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I have had a similar experience.

I have worked downtown in the Oil and Gas industry for about 20 years. That includes some non Oil and Gas industry IT industries.

I have worked with many many natives who were very good at their jobs. So many that I wouldn't be able to count them all.

So, I then have a question. Does that make your opinion wrong or am I wrong?

Boblobla · 06-30-2009, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustAnotherGuy

I have worked downtown in the Oil and Gas industry for about 20 years. That includes some non Oil and Gas industry IT industries.

I have worked with many many natives who were very good at their jobs. So many that I wouldn't be able to count them all.

So, I then have a question. Does that make your opinion wrong or am I wrong?

I think it would mean you have different opinions, but I am not sure, I'm not a doctor.

GreatWhiteEbola · 06-30-2009, 03:24 PM

nm

Antithesis · 06-30-2009, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flip

I grew up in Regina, you'll have to excuse my hatred for natives.

Tolerance and Acceptance: Understanding that not everyone who grew up in Regina is a racist just because you are.

"I grew up in Regina, you'll have to excuse my hatred for natives."

Sounds awful similar to:

"I grew up in Africa, you'll have to excuse my hatred for Africans." You wouldn't get away with the latter - I don't see how you feel it's OK to say the former.

valo403 · 06-30-2009, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boblobla

I think it would mean you have different opinions, but I am not sure, I'm not a doctor.

But did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night?

Fozzie_DeBear · 06-30-2009, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunderball

Personally, I think the Tsuu Tina have a lot more to lose by making an enemy of the City of Calgary than the opposite.

What if Calgary doesn't feel like maintaining its connections to the reserve or to their commercial district? Same with water and emergency services?

Its win/win if they get this road done. Its lose/lose if they don't.

I think that the Tsuu T'ina are a diverse group that don't have a unified POV. Perhaps some Elders will look at this deal one way while some youth with different priorities will look at in another. In the end they'll have a democratic process to determine their own future.

If it ends up screwing up the city planning, that sucks but the city should take some responsibility for painting themselves into a corner.

Peanut · 06-30-2009, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

Tolerance and Acceptance: Understanding that not everyone who grew up in Regina is a racist just because you are.

"I grew up in Regina, you'll have to excuse my hatred for natives."

Sounds awful similar to:

"I grew up in Africa, you'll have to excuse my hatred for Africans." You wouldn't get away with the latter - I don't see how you feel it's OK to say the former.

I know several people from Winnipeg who use the same line, unfortunately (my own Mom included, I'm sad to admit).

kipperfan · 06-30-2009, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

If they vote it down, then block the access to the casino. If they wont let us build a road, then there is no reason to let them profit from our existing roads.

Absolutely, this should be the only course of action considered. The whole "burial ground" thing is a bunch of garbage. The vast majority of these people live in extreme poverty, have extreme substance abuse problems and do not have regular, full time employment but you're telling me their primary concern is the building of a road over great, great, Grandpa? Ok, if that is the case these people need to get their bloody head's on straight. ANY money coming into that reserve should be looked at as a godsend and used accordingly.

It is all about the money, I guarantee this road will get built we will just have sweeten the pot, that is what they want, not for the road to go around Grandpa.

Suzles · 06-30-2009, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ken0042

I hope they get it together so planning can officially start. I don't get the issue, the amount of money to be split among the ~900 members would make them all millionaires, and if the road is not built now the city will find another route. Seems like an easy answer to me: who wants to be a millionaire?

I believe the offer is $275million - so they would only get in the region of $275,000 each.

JustAnotherGuy · 06-30-2009, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boblobla

I think it would mean you have different opinions, but I am not sure, I'm not a doctor.

Exactly. Thank you.

I added that little question because I am getting tired of posters telling me my opinion is wrong.

kipperfan · 06-30-2009, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suzles

I believe the offer is $275million - so they would only get in the region of $275,000 each.

What a rip off!! I cannot believe it is ONLY $275 million! I would say no to that pittance too!

So....the average native family...they make what......$15k-20k/year? Less? yeah I would say the $275,000.00 is pretty sweet.

So......if the Natives get paid to have to road built on their land does that also mean they have to pay if they want to drive/lay on it?

RougeUnderoos · 06-30-2009, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

If they vote it down, then block the access to the casino. If they wont let us build a road, then there is no reason to let them profit from our existing roads.

Would you apply this same sort of logic to another group?

Say for some strange reason this road has to veer off into Canyon Meadows Golf Club and roar over the 8th fairway and 9th green. The city offers them a pile of cash and some other land as compensation. The members vote on it but say no.

"My dad was a member here, and my grandpa too" some guy says. "I can't let them do this to our beloved golf course".

So, would you be okay with the city cutting off their water supply so the grass dies? If they won't let us build a road, there is no reason to let them profit from our existing infrastructure.