Star Trek (XI) - GO SEE IT!

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I hated the new movie. Absolutely hated it.

TOS never happened. The timelines are gone .... with no Romulus and no Vulcan the timelines would be so screwed, TNG, DS9, Voyageur all likely never happened and certainly not the way that they did. Without the Romulans helping in the alliance against the Dominion, humanity is likely wiped out.

I think this was Abrahms took this as an opportunity to take out everything that Roddenberry made and throw it into the trash. All that never happened... Roddenberry is dead and so is everything he did.

Now maybe I sound too much like:
http://www.theonion.com/content/vide...star_trek_film

But this new timeline thing says "Hey, I can't be bothered respecting the storyline that the old-time trekkies know and love, so I'm gonna piss on them, say that everything that they love is false and take the easy way out all the way to the bank."

But MOST of all, this is a sell-out movie. Read this Newsweek article:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/196005

In this movie, there was no debate as to where we draw the lines on rights as there was with Data or the Doctor. There was no discussion of when we should interfere in the problems of another society. There was no moral on tolerance and the acceptance of others. Perhaps Sulu *should* have been gay. And married. That at least would have been something in the vein of Roddenberry. But yeah, there were lots of explosions and, well, more explosions.

Abrahms has taken all the great things that Roddenberry did in Star Trek and whored it out like he did Uhura.

Nerd.

I said the moment after seeing it the only person I could envision not liking this movie would be the types who could be irate over a ship being numbered incorrectly.

Give it a rest about the timeline.

What does it do? Invalidate the previous films, shows and stories?

It's an offshoot.

Putting it in a different timeline just makes it a new dimension. Reality deviates off course with this film, and it in no way invalidates anything previously.

It was fun, and refreshing.

I don't get this angle at all. You sound like you would have been better served playing with figures at home like you were that angry star trek cloud from Futurama.



"HA! You can't alternate the official time line! Episode B-14 cleary says so. Loser!"

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

This movie is designed to reboot the franchise and allow Paramount to continue on with the franchise for many more years to come (there is already a sequel started).

I don't like the term "reboot". I've seen that repeatedly. This didn't "reboot", this "reformatted". Everything that was there before is gone. When I reboot my computer, I usually still have everything I had before and can keep going. In this case, everything that I wanted is erased. It never happened.

You sound like you would have preferred that they had just redone the original series movies with updated effects.

No. I would have been happier with retiring Kirk and Spock et al than this. But I don't see why they couldn't have just done a prequel without wiping out the timeline. They say it was "because the audience will know that they will survive". Oh come off it... there is a sequel already in progress. Everyone in the audience knows that the new Kirk isn't going to be killed by whatever that incredibly stupid snow creature thing was.....

But I could think of 1,000 other movies I would have like more than "erasing the entire Trek timeline". I guess I'll go watch "Enterprise" as at least that timeline wasn't wiped out by this movie.... though I heard it had time travel key to its plot as well.

This movie creates opportunities for new adventures and an entirely new era of Star Trek... and the first movie in that era looks like it will eclipse all previous Star Trek iterations at the box office and be the most critically acclaimed of all of those iterations.

Like I said, it was a sell out. No doubt it will be a commercial success. Everyone loves explosions. They go "BOOM". YAY!!!

Yes the movie does not take on the same kind of moral struggles that some of the shows did in certain episodes or some of the movies did but there is lots of time for that now that Star Trek is BACK!

I'll wager $20 that the sequel is as equally mindless as this one. Abrams is no Roddenberry. He's not even a Rick Berman. He has no respect for that which came before and is only out to make as much $$$$$$$ as he can.

-=-=-=-=-
Maybe I'll just stick to watching Shatner's CURRENT show since it, in its own way, is as funny, provocative and asks the same hard questions that TOS and TNG did.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I don't like the term "reboot". I've seen that repeatedly. This didn't "reboot", this "reformatted". Everything that was there before is gone. When I reboot my computer, I usually still have everything I had before and can keep going. In this case, everything that I wanted is erased. It never happened.

There have always been multiple time lines and parrallel universes in ST. I can't rmemeber the exact episode but remember the one where they went into that time rift and there were millions of enterprise D's all from alternate realities? The cool thing is we get to follow a new one.

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

No. I would have been happier with retiring Kirk and Spock et al than this. But I don't see why they couldn't have just done a prequel without wiping out the timeline. They say it was "because the audience will know that they will survive". Oh come off it... there is a sequel already in progress. Everyone in the audience knows that the new Kirk isn't going to be killed by whatever that incredibly stupid snow creature thing was.....

The downfall of Star Trek started when they went away from the core characters everyone loved. Somehow I never could really care how Captain Benjamin Cisco would overcome an attempt to invade his ugly space station. Star Trek is Kirk, Spock and Bones. To TOS fans everything else was just second rate. No amount of effects or made up science could compensate for their characters. This gives us a chance to follow them once again.

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

But I could think of 1,000 other movies I would have like more than "erasing the entire Trek timeline". I guess I'll go watch "Enterprise" as at least that timeline wasn't wiped out by this movie.... though I heard it had time travel key to its plot as well.

Again the timeline never was erased, we just get to follow a deifferent path. To old Spock the original timeline is very real, he is now marooned in an alternate one.

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Like I said, it was a sell out. No doubt it will be a commercial success. Everyone loves explosions. They go "BOOM". YAY!!!

That is your opinion, but I think the first half of the film does an incredible job a chronicling the characters and giving us glimpses of their pasts we have never seen. And the acting in this film was far superior than what was delivered in the 60's. I think we got the best of both worlds in this one.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by pylon

The statement they erased Roddenberry's version is in a very one dimensional way to look at it. Any Trek fan knows one of the staples of the series is alternate dimensions, parallel universes, time travel and space time rifts. All this movie has done is followed along and immersed us in one of the parallel universes.

Then why do they actually bother trying to go back and "fix" timelines? Or how about that episode where Picard throws himself into the past to give warning to himself that the choice he was about to make was wrong? I mean, if there isn't one TRUE timeline and there are infinite timelines occurring simultaneously, then there is no point to fixing the timeline.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

"if there isn't one TRUE timeline and there are infinite timelines occurring simultaneously, then there is no point to fixing the timeline!"

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Then why do they actually bother trying to go back and "fix" timelines? Or how about that episode where Picard throws himself into the past to give warning to himself that the choice he was about to make was wrong? I mean, if there isn't one TRUE timeline and there are infinite timelines occurring simultaneously, then there is no point to fixing the timeline.

Firstly, whos' to say that the mission in one of the sequels won't be to correct the the existing time line and save Vulcan? Secondly, The Romulan ship and Spock's ship did not go through the Black hole or rift intentionally, it was an accident. Spock entered mere seconds later and came out 25 years later due to the time disruption of the anomoly. And the Nero was waiting for revenge. I think that he chose to do what he could in the reality he was immersed in to save what he could.

Anyway, you are entitled to dislike the movie and look at it as a crapping on Rodenberry's legacy, but the simple fact is he is no longer here to pen new stories and this is what we have now. Had he had the benefit of computer modelling, and 150 million dollar budgets I am sure he would have done better. I went into it thinking there is no way anyone but Shatner can do Kirk or Nimoy Spock or any of the other characters, but with the exception of Uhura, I felt they all captured not only the essence of the original characters, but exceeded all my expectations.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by pylon

I went into it thinking there is no way anyone but Shatner can do Kirk or Nimoy Spock or any of the other characters, but with the exception of Uhura, I felt they all captured not only the essence of the original characters, but exceeded all my expectations.

Well said.

One of my biggest question marks going in was the role of Kirk and how someone else would even approach playing it without being too silly or over the top, yet still maintaining the character.

I don't remember the actor's name, but he did a fantastic job. I was surprised how well he pulled it off. He had just the right amount of smug-ness at the right times. He also did a great job of knowing when to slip in bits of the over dramatized delivery. It was really well done, and you could tell he studied Shatner, but didn't come close to copying or mimicking him.

They also did really well making Kirk a winner from a young age. Showing that he could do no wrong right from the start and was always a clutch performer really endears the character to new audiences who don't know a lot about the original character.

That was something almost everyone casted pulled off. They had just the right amount of the original character pegged down without taking it over the top.

The same reason the original characters are like-able really come through in the performance of just about everyone casted in this new film.

Bones was also great. The way he mixed in the "Damn it Jim!"'s were well timed and funny.

[Devils'Advocate]

Debunking the "infinite timelines" theory:
When it was pointed out that "Yesterday's Enterprise" and "City on the Edge of Forever" rule out this "infinite timelines" theory, Bob Orci, co-writer of the current movie admitted that it flies in the face of past Trek thoughts on time travel. In most of Trek it goes by "Back to the Future" or "Terminator" rules - there is one prime timeline and if you go back and change the past, it changes the future prime timeline. Except maybe TNG's "Parallels" which was mentioned previously.

Orci claims that his version of time travel is correct, the past episodes were wrong except Parallels, the old timeline is still going concurrently with this new timeline and that you will still be able to find TOS, TNG, DS9 DVDs at your favorite entertainment media stores.

Orci also claims that the majority of the audience don't care about whether there is one prime timeline or not. He says that 99% of those that go to the movie believe that they *are* operating under the traditional "one prime timeline" and *just don't care* that it wiped out TOS and most that came after.

I dunno. At the end of the Bob Newhart show I thought it was kinda funny for it all to have been a crazy dream. This time the "it all never really happened" leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

-=-=-=-=-=-
And again, that is a secondary criticism of the movie. My primary criticism is that Roddenberry created Star Trek as a medium for sharing ideas and getting people talking about issues. I mean, just the racial make-up of the crew was ground breaking. This movie was about dumbing things down to "make things go boom".

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Debunking the "infinite timelines" theory:
When it was pointed out that "Yesterday's Enterprise" and "City on the Edge of Forever" rule out this "infinite timelines" theory, Bob Orci, co-writer of the current movie admitted that it flies in the face of past Trek thoughts on time travel. In most of Trek it goes by "Back to the Future" or "Terminator" rules - there is one prime timeline and if you go back and change the past, it changes the future prime timeline. Except maybe TNG's "Parallels" which was mentioned previously.

Orci claims that his version of time travel is correct, the past episodes were wrong except Parallels, the old timeline is still going concurrently with this new timeline and that you will still be able to find TOS, TNG, DS9 DVDs at your favorite entertainment media stores.

Orci also claims that the majority of the audience don't care about whether there is one prime timeline or not. He says that 99% of those that go to the movie believe that they *are* operating under the traditional "one prime timeline" and *just don't care* that it wiped out TOS and most that came after.

I dunno. At the end of the Bob Newhart show I thought it was kinda funny for it all to have been a crazy dream. This time the "it all never really happened" leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

-=-=-=-=-=-
And again, that is a secondary criticism of the movie. My primary criticism is that Roddenberry created Star Trek as a medium for sharing ideas and getting people talking about issues. I mean, just the racial make-up of the crew was ground breaking. This movie was about dumbing things down to "make things go boom".

You honestly can't take a step back and put it in perspective?

It was 125 minutes. It's purpose was to be a new movie that would excite new audiences.

We aren't talking about actual physics. This movie, and it's alternate time line has not erased or altered any DVD's you might have.

If you look back at the very best of the Star Trek movies, the purpose was to entertain wide audiences in a movie theatre setting. It's why Wrath of Khan was so good, the Search for Spock, First Contact etc.

This was clearly a character study to re-introduce the like-able qualities of the original characters to new audiences surrounded by an exciting action packed story.

I think you need to look at it for what it was. An action packed sci fi movies that was meant to re-energize the series to a new audience. The glowing wide reviews and record breaking opening weekend show that was accomplished.

If anything, it invites new fans to revisit the previous series and movies, which by the way, (as another reminder) remain completely unaffected by this new movie.

[Dion]

Took in the late show in Okotoks and thought the movie rocked!

[OutOfTheCube]

Anyone who doesn't enjoy this movie will clearly never enjoy anything in their life. Ever.

And seriously, DA, from all the trailers and reviews and impressions, did you go into this film thinking it WOULDN'T be a drastic departure from the originals? We don't really care about your opinion when you'd obviously made a judgement on it before you stepped into the theatre.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

Anyone who doesn't enjoy this movie will clearly never enjoy anything in their life. Ever.

And seriously, DA, from all the trailers and reviews and impressions, did you go into this film thinking it WOULDN'T be a drastic departure from the originals? We don't really care about your opinion when you'd obviously made a judgement on it before you stepped into the theatre.

I went into it thinking it was going to a bust like most of the other sequels. Wrong! Talk about a rollercoaster ride. The story line was great as well as the special effects. That acting was awesome also. May have to see it again when it shows up in High River.

[GoJetsGo]

I have to say the critic's overwhelming response to this film is amazing:



http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_trek_11/

Critics are jerks and usually love to tear things down, especially something with Star Trek's history.

That high a rating on that many reviews is remarkable.

[Dion]

Roger Ebert was very harsh of the film.

The logic is also a little puzzling when Scotty can beam people into another ship in outer space, but they have to physically parachute to land on a platform in the air from which the Romulans are drilling a hole to the Earth’s core. After they land there, they fight with two Romulan guards, using ... fists and swords?

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/...IEWS/905069997

[JerzeeGirl]

I was actually more excited to see Wolverine but at the last minute, my friend who saw Star Trek last night pushed to go see Trek today instead and am I ever glad she did! WOW!!!!! What a great movie.....can't believe how well they managed to keep the spirit of the characters and show while re-tooling what had clearly become a moribund franchise in much the same way Batman & Superman had.

The cast was excellent - loved the byplay between Kirk & Bones - and Simon Pegg as Scotty was brilliant. (As Craig Ferguson even mentioned, finally we have a real Scot playing "Scotty"!)

To not like this movie blows my mind - it was everything you could ever ask for in an action movie AND it didn't make you hate the director for allowing it to happen (a la Eps I, II & III - yeah George Lucas, I'm talking to YOU!)

Again simply brilliant - cannot wait to go again!

(Really my only beef with anything related to the movie is that we got boned here in Calgary and can't see it in IMAX....)

[OutOfTheCube]

Originally Posted by Dion

Roger Ebert was very harsh of the film.



http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/...IEWS/905069997

Way to watch the movie Roger... as long as the drill was on their transporting abilities were disabled.

And the parachute sequence wasn't when they were drilling to the earth's core either.

What a moron.

[JerzeeGirl]

Originally Posted by Dion

Roger Ebert was very harsh of the film.



http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/...IEWS/905069997

Apparently Rog wasn't listening when they explained why they couldn't use the transporters to get to the surface of either Vulcan or the drill platform, nevermind to the other ship....

[jammies]

Originally Posted by jammies

I'm going to see this tonight, based solely on getbak mentioning Uhura's green room-mate. Green alien chix are what made Star Trek great.

I will be seriously annoyed if Kirk doesn't put the Prime Directive to her, though.

***SPOILER*****



















I wasn't disappointed.

Other nods to the original series were:

The guy in the red shirt getting 86'd when they try to shut down the drill.
Scotty doing a MacGuyver to get the Enterprise out of a jam.
Kirk cheating that test and being the only one to ever pass it.
Kirk wrestling the Romulan for possession of a weapon when they are on the drill platform (except they needed the cheezy fight music)
Uhura being one sexy biatch.

I couldn't care less about whether the movie holds to canon. I hated all the new Star Trek crap after TOS because it was the chemistry between the characters that drove the original show, not the make-believe world which is, frankly, nothing but poorly done pulp SF.

I don't want tamed Klingons with vulva-heads, what I want is simple: Kirk wheeling alien babes, and the rest of the crew kicking alien butt. This movie delivered exactly that, and thus I proclaim it excellent.

(That is, other than the scene of 12 year old Kirk stealing the car. Utterly, completely unnecessary and dumb. It's like Michael Bay was consulted and said, "No car chase? I don't care if this is the 23rd century, I want a car chase!")

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by jammies

Kirk cheating that test and being the only one to ever pass it.

This was a great move in the remake because this was a famous and legendary story about Kirk that was discussed in several series and movies.

To see it happen was good, and it was one of the few scenes that allowed the actor to do a bit of a throwback to the over the top delivery of Kirk.

Adding in the fact that Spock programmed the test was a nice touch and furthered the character development between them.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

Anyone who doesn't enjoy this movie will clearly never enjoy anything in their life. Ever.

And seriously, DA, from all the trailers and reviews and impressions, did you go into this film thinking it WOULDN'T be a drastic departure from the originals? We don't really care about your opinion when you'd obviously made a judgement on it before you stepped into the theatre.

Your first sentence is clearly wrong as I enjoy many things in life, just not this movie.

Different I don't have a problem with. And watching interviews with the creators before hand, the writers and director and producers and actors all said that the old trekkies would love this movie too. The writers said they kept 100% of the old and just added a layer for accessibility. As the Newsweek article laments, they gutted what made Star Trek unique to gain commercial success.

I also thought John was right to call out Paul with "How do you Sleep". To which Paul wrote that people like "Silly Love Songs".