Chryco/Fiat, CAW may screw it all up

[CaptainCrunch]

Weld this, screw in that, they'll all pay.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by REDVAN

Why don't they just use robots?

[REDVAN]

Still, I for one would welcome our robot overlords.

Hello, the Matrix is flippin' sweet!

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by REDVAN

Still, I for one would welcome our robot overlords.

Hello, the Matrix is flippin' sweet!

Dare to dream, Redvan.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

The people I've spoken to think they are screwed regardless.

They believe that in the next few years, their plant will be shipped offshore no matter what wage concessions they make.

The story that was recounted to me was a couple years ago Chrysler was going to end one of the shifts in Windsor, but the gov't ended up giving them(Chrysler Canada) money on the condition that the 2nd shift remain running. Today that plant is down to one shift, and Chrysler is asking more money to keep the plant open. The workers themselves know the plants are in deep trouble (who knows what the union brass think), but they do not believe that the concessions they make are going to save their job.

Their point of view is they can work for $55/hr or they can work for $15/hr until the plant relocates, and the plant is going to relocate. Why should they work for less if they do not believe it will save their job?

There's your problem right there.
Th union doesn't realize that they are the reason the plants aren't sustainalbe, and that they are the reason the plants will leave.
If they do take large enough concessions, the plants will stay.

[REDVAN]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Dare to dream, Redvan.

Ah, if only we could go back to the glory days of Chrysler!

[BlackArcher101]

The $55/hr isn't the wage, it's the total labor cost to the company... that includes the wage, benefits, vacation, break time, pension, training, and overhead.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by REDVAN

Ah, if only we could go back to the glory days of Chrysler!

I learned how to drive on a red 1992 Plymouth Voyager. Handled like a dream, I tells ya. A dream.

[RougeUnderoos]

As usual, it's the grunts who are bringing the whole thing crashing down.

[Finny61]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

The $55/hr isn't the wage, it's the total labor cost to the company... that includes the wage, benefits, vacation, break time, pension, training, and overhead.

Training...haha good one.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Isn't it up to the union leaders to propose making the concessions under the condition that the plants remain where they currently are, thus saving jobs?

I think unions in general have become too powerful, and need to be busted apart.

Yup.

This is where the union gets the government involved and plants a requirement that says we take pay cut if you guarantee plant stays open, and government here will ensure that what is promised happens.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

If they do take large enough concessions, the plants will stay.

Darn right! If they'd work for as little as the Chinese we wouldn't have this problem.

It's funny that so many posters write as though they're experts on this issue yet can't grasp the fact that autoworkers are not getting paid $74 or $55 per hour.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Darn right! If they'd work for as little as the Chinese we wouldn't have this problem.

It's funny that so many posters write as though they're experts on this issue yet can't grasp the fact that autoworkers are not getting paid $74 or $55 per hour.

I think most of us understand that their take home pay isn't 74$ a hour.

[Clarkey]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Darn right! If they'd work for as little as the Chinese we wouldn't have this problem.

It's funny that so many posters write as though they're experts on this issue yet can't grasp the fact that autoworkers are not getting paid $74 or $55 per hour.

What do you think a fair take home pay for repetitive non-skilled labour is... $10, $15, $20, $30, $40 bucks an hour? I think minimum wage is currently something like $8.50 and hour in Alberta.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

There's your problem right there.
Th union doesn't realize that they are the reason the plants aren't sustainalbe, and that they are the reason the plants will leave.
If they do take large enough concessions, the plants will stay.

Yea, but the real problem is that the unions have been blocking the automakers (no, I'm not absolving the execs of all responsibility, just some of it) from making the plants more efficient, ie: using robots.

The CAW has spent decades blocking the big 3 from making their plants more efficient because it eliminates union jobs. That is my biggest problem with unions. If they would understand that as technology advances, some of them would have to (ideally be retrained but ultimately) get new jobs, then the union would remain healthy.

Union mentality = love your co-worker
Union Boss mentality = 19th century

Call me a rubbernecker, but I can't wait to see the fallout from one of the big 3 actually going bankrupt.

Right now they're fighting as useless a battle as the NHLPA did in '04. We can all see now that some scrubs lost their jobs, but the truly useful ones are making as much money as ever. The CAW needs to realize that they're a 20th century fighter against a 21st century juggernaut.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Darn right! If they'd work for as little as the Chinese we wouldn't have this problem.

It's funny that so many posters write as though they're experts on this issue yet can't grasp the fact that autoworkers are not getting paid $74 or $55 per hour.

Where did I say that?
I realize that they aren't making that much, but that's not the point.
To make cuts large enough it's more than just the hourly wage.
They'll have to take cuts on their pension, on their benefits packages, hell, for all we know they get 8 weeks vacation, maybe they'll have to cut back no that.

The fact is that Japanese companies have been doing pretty well lately building cars in NA, but for some reason the big 3 can't compete. What's the difference, for starters there's the union until that union finds a way to bring their total labour cost (notice I didn't say hourly wage) in line, then they're digging their own grave.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Darn right! If they'd work for as little as the Chinese we wouldn't have this problem.

It's funny that so many posters write as though they're experts on this issue yet can't grasp the fact that autoworkers are not getting paid $74 or $55 per hour.

You do know that the actual hourly pay is irrelevant in this case, its what the company is paying out in total compensation.

So the union members need to make a choice about what part of that package they can live without. The pension? The salary, portions of their paid vacation, their dental plan for example.

But a total compensation plan of about $150,000 per year for a factory worker in a depressed economy in a dying industry is the first place that you have to look since there are thousands upon thousands of these positions.

I was watching the news this morning and they interviewed a lady that had just been laid off, her and her husband were line workers for GM. They were living in a very large very nicely furnished house as she worked on a shiny new laptop, and both her and her husband were driving new high end super powerfull pickup trucks.

And she said that the problem wasn't with the workers and they shouldn't have to give anymore. It just seemed to be such a golden goose killing moment.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I was watching the news this morning and they interviewed a lady that had just been laid off, her and her husband were line workers for GM. They were living in a very large very nicely furnished house as she worked on a shiny new laptop, and both her and her husband were driving new high end super powerfull pickup trucks.

And she said that the problem wasn't with the workers and they shouldn't have to give anymore. It just seemed to be such a golden goose killing moment.

Well, now she can move on to that job at Tim Horton's that she is ideally qualified for. The mindless proles in NA better realize that there are millions upon millions mindless proles in China, Indonesia, India and Vietnam (among others) that can do the same thing for a fraction of the cost.

[TimSJ]

The latest rumor is that Fiat will back away from the Chrysler deal (if the unions don't come to the table) and buy Saturn.. Which really would likely be a better fit.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by TimSJ

The latest rumor is that Fiat will back away from the Chrysler deal (if the unions don't come to the table) and buy Saturn.. Which really would likely be a better fit.

Yup pretty harsh words from Fiat's CEO. If this deal falls through for Chrysler all bets are off concerning government funding and Chrysler probably gets broken up and sold off.

I think the deadline is the 30th of April.