U of C Abortion protests

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by peter12

Yes, I would. As long as they weren't directly threatening or inciting violence against other individuals.

I have never, ever seen the pro-life demonstration threaten anybody.

So you would support an organization which is entirely founded on and entire purpose is racial violence and hate speech... Even though that due to the hate speech laws, this isn't covered by the charter of rights. Add to the fact that they also would be asked to leave campus and if they didn't would be trespassing.

So in your mind, the right to free speech (which doesn't even exist in the KKK example) trumps hate speech laws, the criminal code of canada, trespassing laws and property rights? Don't get me wrong - I'm all for free speech but... wow...

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

So you would support an organization which is entirely founded on and entire purpose is racial violence and hate speech... Even though that due to the hate speech laws, this isn't covered by the charter of rights. Add to the fact that they also would be asked to leave campus and if they didn't would be trespassing.

So in your mind, the right to free speech (which doesn't even exist in the KKK example) trumps hate speech laws, the criminal code of canada, trespassing laws and property rights? Don't get me wrong - I'm all for free speech but... wow...

Yes, free speech trumps everything. Actually, if I were you, I'd actually look up what Canada's criminal code says about hate speech. It's a hammer and has been used very sparingly by the state. The definition of what is hate speech and what isn't is a very grey, murky area that most liberal democracies try to stay out of.

As I said, the provocation of violence should be severely punished, but we have other laws to deal with that. Just because I believe in the liberation of nearly all speech, doesn't mean I agree with it all. I believe it is the citizen's democracy duty to maintain a free and liberal society, not the government's.

Even though that due to the hate speech laws, this isn't covered by the charter of rights.

This is an absolute gem. Do you know what the Charter does? It's there to provide the guiding light for all Canadian legislation. In fact, if you go back and read some Charter cases, ie. Zundel, you'd find that the Charter actually strikes down laws related to speech.

[Phaneuf3]

Ok champ. Keep fighting the good fight.

Everyone can agree that the university was within its rights to do what it did. You are one of the few (only?) ones that think what they did was wrong even though they had the right to do it - its your right to think that. I'm sure your donation dollars will be sorely missed.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by peter12

How does this apply to the pro-life demonstration? You don't have the right to be protected from being offended.

You (in this case, the University) has the right to private property and the right to control what happens on that property.

A student has the right to walk past without having 2 of them gang up on you, forcing you to stop by impeding your progress, until you look at their displays.

peter12, I understand and agree with your point of view on freedom of speech, however I think it would be a lot different if you had been harassed by these people, or witnessed it happening to single students who were walking by just trying to mind their own business. In my eyes this has nothing to do with the message they were trying to communicate, it has everything to do with them violating the terms that the University set out for them to follow.

[BlackEleven]

Originally Posted by Rathji

Even protesting on public property requires you to follow rules. I don't see the distinction other than the rules are a bit more strict if you are on private property.

That's true, you do. The distinction is that with private property the owner of the property can ask you to leave for any reason they see fit. With public property no one can ask you to leave as long as you are obeying the law. That's why I find what students were actually doing irrelevant.

[PsYcNeT]

The saddest thing of the whole debacle is this affair will ultimately result in the U of C Pro-Life group becoming a martyr for similar groups across the world.

Not that the existance of these group is wrong, in fact it is quite the opposite, as both sides are needed for any provocative debate.

The shame lies within their deifying a group that used strong-arm tactics and forcible manipulation to essentialy brow-beat and badger innocents and objectors alike into becoming part of something they have every right to not be a part of if they so choose.

Freedom works both ways. The freedom to say what you want, and other peoples freedom to ignore you. When either freedom is removed, nobody wins, we just regress.

[flip]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

The saddest thing of the whole debacle is this affair will ultimately result in the U of C Pro-Life group becoming a martyr for similar groups across the world.

Not that the existance of these group is wrong, in fact it is quite the opposite, as both sides are needed for any provocative debate.

The shame lies within their deifying a group that used strong-arm tactics and forcible manipulation to essentialy brow-beat and badger innocents and objectors alike into becoming part of something they have every right to not be a part of if they so choose.

Freedom works both ways. The freedom to say what you want, and other peoples freedom to ignore you. When either freedom is removed, nobody wins, we just regress.

This I disagree with.

These people acted like a bunch of savages. As you said they essentially borwbeat and badger innocents. I just don't see them becoming Martyrs. Other than ultra religious and equally stupid people I don't think most anti-abortion groups would support the manner in which these morons were presenting their campaign.

Don't get me wrong, they have every right to be morons, just not to the point where they are badgering innocent students.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Would you consider it heavy-handed if the cops were handing out tickets to members of CFfGLTR (Communist Feminists for Gay/Lesbian/Transgendered Rights?

I would consider it very heavy handed.

[HOZ]

It seems to me that quite a few feel it is ok to silence someone if they disagree with them. A true lack of understanding of the freedom speech.

These students were not charged with harassment. They were charged with trespassing by their own University. If there was such a great problem with this demonstration that the University truly thought that they were a problem it could have been handled better than strong-arm tactics that they have employed. I wonder how many degrees were involved in this SNAFU?

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by HOZ

It seems to me that quite a few feel it is ok to silence someone if they disagree with them. A true lack of understanding of the freedom speech.

These students were not charged with harassment. They were charged with trespassing by their own University. If there was such a great problem with this demonstration that the University truly thought that they were a problem it could have been handled better than strong-arm tactics that they have employed. I wonder how many degrees were involved in this SNAFU?

I have no problem with pro-life supporters, in fact I am most certainly one of them. For you to use the political aspect of their demonstration as the sole reason they were ticketed is both naive and uninformed. I was present and personally witnessed them harassing people who had no interest in their posters. It would have been me, except I think the scrawny kids felt the tiny girl hustling past with her ipod was an easier target. Had him and his buddies tried it with me I would have simply raised my arm in front of me and bowled them both over like JoJuan Armour playing against a high school football team.

If there was a problem with the content of the demonstration, which is the same every year, it would have been disallowed. It is the actions of the people in the demonstration that violated the terms set forth by the Uni when they allowed this to happen.

Keep thinking this is about abortion and not about the irresponsible actions of University students who thought they were a lot more immune from the law than they actually were. I am sure it makes things much more logical in your eyes.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Rathji

I have no problem with pro-life supporters, in fact I am most certainly one of them. For you to use the political aspect of their demonstration as the sole reason they were ticketed is both naive and uninformed. I was present and personally witnessed them harassing people who had no interest in their posters. It would have been me, except I think the scrawny kids felt the tiny girl hustling past with her ipod was an easier target. Had him and his buddies tried it with me I would have simply raised my arm in front of me and bowled them both over like JoJuan Armour playing against a high school football team.

If there was a problem with the content of the demonstration, which is the same every year, it would have been disallowed. It is the actions of the people in the demonstration that violated the terms set forth by the Uni when they allowed this to happen.

Keep thinking this is about abortion and not about the irresponsible actions of University students who thought they were a lot more immune from the law than they actually were. I am sure it makes things much more logical in your eyes.

I understand your problem with them. I really do. The UofC handled this wrong and it sure looks like the content is the problem. This really looks like PC run amok.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by HOZ

I understand your problem with them. I really do. The UofC handled this the only way they could and the media makes it look like the content is the problem. This really looks like PC run amok.

Fixed.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by HOZ

I understand your problem with them. I really do. The UofC handled this wrong and it sure looks like the content is the problem. This really looks like PC run amok.

How else could they have handled it?

[Phaneuf3]

Just thought I'd bump this thread to stir the pot. Picked up a copy of the Metro this morning and on the front page they have a small blurb about how the U of C pro-life club has now been stripped of their recognition and funding from the students union.

Discuss.

[Rathji]

That is strange. Does it say why?

I know clubs need to adhere to certain regulations and standards, maybe it has to do with the whole not participating in illegal activities as part of club sanctioned events. I doubt it will change anything other than SU funding, and if the community feels that strongly about their cause, it will receive funding from private sources.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by Rathji

That is strange. Does it say why?

I know clubs need to adhere to certain regulations and standards, maybe it has to do with the whole not participating in illegal activities as part of club sanctioned events. I doubt it will change anything other than SU funding, and if the community feels that strongly about their cause, it will receive funding from private sources.

"The decision was provoked by trespassing charges laid on the Campus Pro-Life group earlier this month after its refusal to remove graphic posters comparing genocide to abortion."

Perhaps a real news paper would have more on the story. Hopefully someone that subscribes to one could turn more up.



Honest question for anyone more familiar with the group: Do they do anything other than their annual protest/harassment?
If that's all they do and they can't obey the rules the university sets out or even the law - I don't really see a problem with losing their funding and official club status. If they do a lot more than that I might change my tune.
And before I get jumped on for denying them their free speech rights - nobody is denying them that. You have the right to free speech, not the right to free money which is basically all that's being taken away here.

[enthused]

Oh boy... can't wait to go to school today...

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/an...553/story.html

Give it a rest, seriously.

[Bagor]

Sounds like they're trying to goad the university into doing something that they can use.

I'd just call the transport cops and tell them they're immigrants.

[Rathji]

I am tempted to hang out there for the hour I have between classes today to see if they will be up to the same swarm annoyance tactics I saw last time.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Rathji

I am tempted to hang out there for the hour I have between classes today to see if they will be up to the same swarm annoyance tactics I saw last time.

Someone really needs to do the coathanger sales thing.

Or organise everyone to walk past them with a coathanger wrapped around their head.