Man stabbed, then decapitated on grey hound bus

[redforever]

Originally Posted by HOOT

So how do these "professionals" connect his brain up again? Do they open him up like a engine and fix'er up?

No, it's the same brain and same person they are letting out. What is stopping those connections from coming loose again?

I just think that the hospital and/or doctor that let's him out should be held responsible for his actions once let out. They may put a lot more thought into letting people like this out if it comes back to them and their job/funding.

There are no such assurances with any person who has broken the law.

No matter if it it was someone who embezzled money, no matter if it was someone who sexually abused children, no matter if it was someone who stole a loaf a bread and .......no matter if someone (who was not mentally competent at the time) did something truly horrendous. How does society know that upon release, either from prison, or from a mental instituiont, that these people will not go back to their prior ways?

The courts have not said the man did not commit the crime, they said he was not criminally responsible because of the fact that he was mentally incompetent at the time.

Most mental illnesses are a result of some chemical imbalance in the body. The hard part for the doctors, psychiatrists etc is to find the chemical that will put the balance back.

And even if they find that chemical, then how can they make sure the person continues to take the medications necessary. Or, even will the positive effects of that chemical wear off in time. So, how do we monitor those individuals to see if their medications are being taken or are still effective?

Or does society monitor them once they have been deemed fit to be released? Most people who have done jail time are not monitored upon their release from jail. Should those being released from a mental institution be treated any differently?

I think rather than ranting on about what Li did, we should be more concerned with aiming our concerns either at the Parole Board of Canada or perhaps reforming the Mental Health Act.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by valo403

Really? Wow, and what country exactly would that jury be located in? It's certainly not Canada.

Ha, look back at the 80's in Calgary. Two crackheads kept robbing a pharmacy almost daily for months. The owner got fed up and killed both of them in cold blood. He ran out the front and shot them both in the back as they took off. He was tried and found not guilty. What a shame.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by redforever

Most mental illnesses are a result of some chemical imbalance in the body. The hard part for the doctors, psychiatrists etc is to find the chemical that will put the balance back.

And even if they find that chemical, then how can they make sure the person continues to take the medications necessary. Or, even will the positive effects of that chemical wear off in time. So, how do we monitor those individuals to see if their medications are being taken or are still effective?

Just for the record, people with mental illness are no more likely than any other segment of the population to commit a crime or become violent. Depression, Anxiety, ADD, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, Post Traumatic Stress, and most Schizophrenics are not violent. Paranoid schizophrenics, (like Li and the individual who stabbed me), should be closely monitored and kept in institutions if they do not comply with taking medication.

This may be a difficult task, but look at the consequences if they slip through the cracks. I was lucky I only received a few stitches. Mr McKay was not so lucky. You can't put a price on a loss of a life.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Ha, look back at the 80's in Calgary. Two crackheads kept robbing a pharmacy almost daily for months. The owner got fed up and killed both of them in cold blood. He ran out the front and shot them both in the back as they took off. He was tried and found not guilty. What a shame.

Thats what I'm talkin' about!

[valo403]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Ha, look back at the 80's in Calgary. Two crackheads kept robbing a pharmacy almost daily for months. The owner got fed up and killed both of them in cold blood. He ran out the front and shot them both in the back as they took off. He was tried and found not guilty. What a shame.

And is that comparable to police officers shooting and killing a man who is posing no imminent threat to anyone?

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

Just for the record, people with mental illness are no more likely than any other segment of the population to commit a crime or become violent. Depression, Anxiety, ADD, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, Post Traumatic Stress, and most Schizophrenics are not violent. Paranoid schizophrenics, (like Li and the individual who stabbed me), should be closely monitored and kept in institutions if they do not comply with taking medication.

This may be a difficult task, but look at the consequences if they slip through the cracks. I was lucky I only received a few stitches. Mr McKay was not so lucky. You can't put a price on a loss of a life.

I agree. But I also believe we need changes in the Mental Health Act that would facilitate these type of actions. Talk to the families who have tried to have their loved ones committed to any type of facility so they could receive the proper treatment and care. I am not sure of all the ins and outs but I think you can only keep an individual for something like 48 hours if they do not wish to be there? Don't quote me but I know it is pretty well impossible to commit someone with mental illness to get the help and treatment they require.

Li fell through the cracks. His wife alerted various people about his mental instability, he had been in police custody just a few days before the bus accident. But, he was never assessed, treated, whatever. He never got into the system.

And there in lies the problem. How can we get people with mental problems into the system? Yeah, some are there. Many are not and are on the streets or elsewhere, some are ticking time bombs.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by Russic

Yet you would not be concerned what it would say about our society if we exterminated the mentally ill in the same way that the nazis did?

It isn't like he pulled the crazy card out from his back pocket and delivered it to the judge with a smile. He has schizophrenia and the medical and scientific evidence to back that up.

You are really on to something here! Maybe we could put special arm bands on people with severe mental disorders.
BTW, my "extermination" comment was tongue in cheek........

[millhouse11]

I heard about this one on the radio this morning.

"The girlfriend of a man viciously stabbed 28 times by his co-worker as he slept in his Kananaskis hotel is shocked the killer is free from a mental facility less than three years later."

http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=992780

[ken0042]

The one thing that was said on QR77 yesterday, the one thing the victim's family wants is that Li to have a criminal record attached to this incident. So basically while he can still plead insanity, that doesn't stop the record from following him.

Let's say he is released as "cured" in 5 years. Would you want a guy like this driving your kids' school bus? As it stands right now he would have no criminal record to follow him around.

[Eagle Eye]

Sorry dont know if this has been mentioned or not yet, but I dont understand the whole 'Plead insanity' thing. To me anyone who murders someone (I am not talking accidental killers) is insane. Normal people can't/don't murder others

[redforever]

Originally Posted by ken0042

The one thing that was said on QR77 yesterday, the one thing the victim's family wants is that Li to have a criminal record attached to this incident. So basically while he can still plead insanity, that doesn't stop the record from following him.

Let's say he is released as "cured" in 5 years. Would you want a guy like this driving your kids' school bus? As it stands right now he would have no criminal record to follow him around.

The problem is, no one in Canada is a criminal just because they are mentally unstable.

Yes, the mentally unstable person has committed a criminal act, but they have been found not criminally responsible.... because of the fact that they are mentally unstable!!!

I know, symantics... but that is how it is.

I don't know if a criminal record can be attached to someone like this, but what about some kind of record like for those who have bad credit ratings? I don't know what you would call it or what kind of agency or department would hold the records either or how future employers etc would access it.

I think what the public wants are assurances... not just with mentally unstable people released from facilities but also with criminals who have been released from jail. Now, there are no assurances that will be 100% foolproof but at least the criminal released from jail has a record you can access.

So, any suggestions as to what you can attach to someone who is mentally unstable.

The two cases really are quite different.

By the way, you can get a pardon in Canada for just about any crime you have committed and been found guilty of. Yes, even murderers can apply for a pardon... doubtful they will get one but they can apply.

Many have received pardons and their records have been sealed, meaning only the appropriate government body can access it. So even a prior criminal conviction can be unknown to the general public. Like I said, there are no fool proof assurances to the general public.

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by millhouse11

I heard about this one on the radio this morning.

"The girlfriend of a man viciously stabbed 28 times by his co-worker as he slept in his Kananaskis hotel is shocked the killer is free from a mental facility less than three years later."

http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=992780

That is brutal and thanks for posting. I feel for the victims family in this case. A family member gets murdered by someone who cannot stand trial because he's mentally incapable, gets cured then is on the streets in 3-4 years. Brutal.

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by ken0042

The one thing that was said on QR77 yesterday, the one thing the victim's family wants is that Li to have a criminal record attached to this incident. So basically while he can still plead insanity, that doesn't stop the record from following him.

Let's say he is released as "cured" in 5 years. Would you want a guy like this driving your kids' school bus? As it stands right now he would have no criminal record to follow him around.

I feel for the family of the victim. How do you sleep at night knowing that this clown could be back on the streets in a few years like nothing happened.

The upsetting part is that this guy turned down chances to get help and refused. By refusing he got worse, kills someone then gets off scot-free.

I am fine with the mentall insanity plea but have trouble accepting it since he refused treatment a few years ago. This incident was avoidable but proceeded due to his doing. The law needs to be changed to keep these folks off the street if whether they accept or don't accept treatment.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by pepper24

The upsetting part is that this guy turned down chances to get help and refused. By refusing he got worse, kills someone then gets off scot-free.

I am fine with the mentall insanity plea but have trouble accepting it since he refused treatment a few years ago. This incident was avoidable but proceeded due to his doing. The law needs to be changed to keep these folks off the street if whether they accept or don't accept treatment.

His refusal to accept help or get treatments is part and parcel of being schizophrenic. They are mentally unstable, they don't see themselves as having a problem. You can not reason with those who are not capable of being reasonable.

The law needs to be changed? or the Mental Health Act has to be changed. You are aware that right now, countless families have tried to force their loved ones to get treatment but that is not within their rights?

[loob job]

What a @#$% joke. I hope someone "accidently" gives him the wrong medication.

[Russic]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

You are really on to something here! Maybe we could put special arm bands on people with severe mental disorders.
BTW, my "extermination" comment was tongue in cheek........

Obviously I pulled the Nazi card for dramatic affect, but to be fair it was in response to a comment you made that was equally over the top.

We don't agree on this topic and that's cool. You see the situation as more black and white than I do and there's nothing wrong with that. Like many on this board I've known people with serious mental illnesses so I do tend to look at situations such as this through a certain type of lens.

[FireFly]

The problem with giving someone like this a record is this:

So in 1/3/5/10 years buddy gets out because he's cured. Goes looking for a job. No one will hire him now because he's unstable. What do you think will happen? It certainly won't result in goodness.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by millhouse11

I heard about this one on the radio this morning.

"The girlfriend of a man viciously stabbed 28 times by his co-worker as he slept in his Kananaskis hotel is shocked the killer is free from a mental facility less than three years later."

http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=992780

I remember at a conference having to share a room with a guy who had a history of Neo-Nazism and paranoid schizophrenia.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by FireFly

The problem with giving someone like this a record is this:

So in 1/3/5/10 years buddy gets out because he's cured. Goes looking for a job. No one will hire him now because he's unstable. What do you think will happen? It certainly won't result in goodness.

"I see from your criminal record that you were tried and found not criminally responsible for first degree murder. Please explain"

"Y'see, I was on this bus, right? And there was this shifty eyed character sitting toward the back listening to that damned rap music. That's when God told me to exterminate all evil."

"Uh, huh... Then what?"

"So I took out my knife and I stabbed him. Then I stabbed him again. And again and again until I was sure that the demon inside him was dead."

"I see. Then what?"

"Then I cut off his head and showed it to the onlookers as a warning that I was going to find all evil and exterminate it. But then I got hungry, so I took a bite."

"Really. So how is it that you weren't criminally responsible for this?"

"Well, it was just such a bizarre crime that no judge in the country would believe that I was sane when I did it. Lack of sanity equals not criminally responsible. So I had to spend 10 years in the psych ward but they cured me."

"Ok. Well, seeing's how you weren't deemed criminally responsible, I guess you fit the bill! Welcome aboard!!"

[stang]

Originally Posted by FireFly

The problem with giving someone like this a record is this:

So in 1/3/5/10 years buddy gets out because he's cured. Goes looking for a job. No one will hire him now because he's unstable. What do you think will happen? It certainly won't result in goodness.

I dont wnt him out because he is cured....after he is "cured" he should go to jail. What if he relapses? Obviously something deep inside of him wants to do this... and I think his crime was violent enough to say "we arent taking any chances, on him doing it again.

I dont want my daughter in 15 years to find herself sitting next to this guy on a bus.