Man stabbed, then decapitated on grey hound bus

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

I am not worried about him. I am worried about what it says about our society when we punish someone for being mentally insane. He was not capable of understanding how bad what he did was. His brain doesn't have the connections.

So how do these "professionals" connect his brain up again? Do they open him up like a engine and fix'er up?

No, it's the same brain and same person they are letting out. What is stopping those connections from coming loose again?

I just think that the hospital and/or doctor that let's him out should be held responsible for his actions once let out. They may put a lot more thought into letting people like this out if it comes back to them and their job/funding.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by HOOT

So how do these "professionals" connect his brain up again? Do they open him up like a engine and fix'er up?

No, it's the same brain and same person they are letting out. What is stopping those connections from coming loose again?

I just think that the hospital and/or doctor that let's him out should be held responsible for his actions once let out. They may put a lot more thought into letting people like this out if it comes back to them and their job/funding.

Are they saying he will be released at some point or is that an assumption? I kind of find it hard to believe this guy will ever be out of an institution.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by fotze

Plus they have alkeyhol

Thats an assumption...........I dont drink much, probably a good thing with my unstabe Irish blood.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by HOOT

How do you think the friends and family feel about this? Is it fair to them because some guy has issues that he is allowed to kill people at will and just walk out once he's all better?

They will NEVER get to see that person again, yet this guy gets to live a cushy life in a hospital and once "fixed" is free to go on his way. How is that fair? How is that justice?

I just don't know why everyone is so worried about some murder that kill an innocent person sleeping on a freakin' bus. I guess I just don't get it.

A deceased friend of mine was schizophrenic. Before he was offcialy diagnosed he nearly killed his mother by choking her into an unconscious state. Luckily his brother sensed something was wrong when he phoned home and the police arrived in time to take him away.

He did spend some time in a hospital and it was not a cushy place. You have no rights or freedoms when you're in there. It's a like prison as you are not free to go anywhere you want.

Eventually he got treament and for a while lived a some what normal life. He took his medication and did his best to try and hold down a job. Sadly a few years later he comittted suicide by jumping off a parkade.

It may not be relevant to this case but i do have some understanding of what goes on with a schizophrenic.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Yet they fail to deliver results again and again.
The problem is not necessarily the people who have the training and practice, it's the rules in which they have to operate under which are failing.

And yeah I am making somewhat of a blanket statement, but if you tune into any north american news channel regularly, you see that these incidents are happening more and more often, whether its troubled kids shooting up their school, a parent killing his/her kid because god told them too, people torturing people etc.

Are you saying Li has been "unjustly accused of something"?
Ask the couple dozen bus passengers if they think Li has been "unjustly accused".........

Prove it.

Tell me how many times the system has failed vs how many times it has worked perfectly.

Then show me how you would make it better.


You pretty much admit you have formed your opinion from watching TV.
"but if you tune into any north american news channel regularly, you see that these incidents are happening more and more often"

Haven't you heard of TV sensationalism? Something like this happens today, you hear about on 50+ channels(including multiple dedicated news channels), satellite radio, thousands of websites and blogs. And all of them are fighting to gain your attention. Is the best way to do that with logic and facts, or sound bites and scary headlines? 20 years ago, how many places do you think you would have had to get your information? A few local channels, maybe the newspaper. There wasn't the same frenzy.

Everything you hear today is being amplified by media screaming to try and get ratings.

I think it is better today than it used to be. Violent crime rates are lower than they were 30 years ago.

Yeah, the system is failing. Or maybe you are just hearing about the same things more and more.

Knee jerk reactions, they really aren't helpful.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by HOOT

So how do these "professionals" connect his brain up again? Do they open him up like a engine and fix'er up?

No, it's the same brain and same person they are letting out. What is stopping those connections from coming loose again?

Bad analogy on the car motor. It's more like trying to fix a computer software problem. They identify what is wrong, then apply new software (chemicals) to try and fix or overwrite the old problems. If the new software is unable to fix the problem... well then he has a long stay.

Can it be guarenteed it will never happen again? Ofcourse not, but if it is reasonable to say it will never happen again then how can you justify continuing to hold him?

And no, what he did when he was mentally incapable is not justification.

Originally Posted by HOOT

I just think that the hospital and/or doctor that let's him out should be held responsible for his actions once let out. They may put a lot more thought into letting people like this out if it comes back to them and their job/funding.

If they did everything medically possible, and everyone who looked at him came to the same conclusion then how can you blame that person? If all the medical professionals who know this type of behavior and know how to identify problems feel that he was better, how can you get mad at them? They were doing their job as ordered to the best of their ability.

If you could prove negligence then crucify em.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by HOOT

I just think that the hospital and/or doctor that let's him out should be held responsible for his actions once let out. They may put a lot more thought into letting people like this out if it comes back to them and their job/funding.

How do you know he's ever going to get out?

And what exactly do you know about how much thought goes into letting people like this out? And really, what people? The way you talk, it sounds like this happens all the time.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

I am not worried about him. I am worried about what it says about our society when we punish someone for being mentally insane. He was not capable of understanding how bad what he did was. His brain doesn't have the connections.

So he can move into your neighborhood when he get's out?

I am worried what it says about our society when we can all use "I'm crazy!" as an excuse to kill someone.

[Russic]

Originally Posted by HOOT

Why whats the difference? Both can't be controlled without help...both parties didn't mean to kill the person.

It may be a bad example but my point still stands. It's a joke and he should be locked up for life prison or hospital, I would even let him choose

How do you think the friends and family feel about this? Is it fair to them because some guy has issues that he is allowed to kill people at will and just walk out once he's all better?

They will NEVER get to see that person again, yet this guy gets to live a cushy life in a hospital and once "fixed" is free to go on his way. How is that fair? How is that justice?

I just don't know why everyone is so worried about some murder that kill an innocent person sleeping on a freakin' bus. I guess I just don't get it.

There is a steep difference in the degree of impairment between schizophrenia and anger issues imo. We all may feel like tearing the arms off of somebody in a starbucks lineup from time to time but we are within the realm of sanity enough to know that actually following through is unacceptable.

I'm not actually saying that I think he should be released from a hospital, but I think that's where he needs to be. I will admit that I'm no expert on the Canadian prison system, but I imagine that it is not suited for somebody of his degree of illness. I realize that many want nothing more for him to be locked behind bars, shived, beaten and raped in the shower on a daily basis for this, but that's not going to help him. Why help himat all? Because one day he is going to get out. Like it or lump it, the justice system will see this guy released and if you ask me when it happens I'd rather he have been medicated and given therapy instead of abused every day.

I obviously can't imagine what his friends and family are going through. I do know that they are campaigning to have offenders found not criminally responsible to do time in prison. For reasons noted above I respectfully disagree.

It's not ok what this guy did, but despite the fact you put the word "fixed" in quotation marks, this is one instance where he might actually be able to be rehabilitated. Schizophrenia is a disease that can be brought under control.

I assure you I'm not the stero-typical left leaner that sits around concerned about the perpetrator. My main focus in all of this is that he gets the proper rehabilitation. Perhaps this means hospitalization for life, perhaps it does not.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

So he can move into your neighborhood when he get's out?

I am worried what it says about our society when we can all use "I'm crazy!" as an excuse to kill someone.

That would worry me too. Luckily I live in Canada and I don't have to worry about it here. Where do you live?

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

So he can move into your neighborhood when he get's out?

I am worried what it says about our society when we can all use "I'm crazy!" as an excuse to kill someone.

If he gets out? Yeah, I wouldn't fight it. He did what the courts required him to do, the doctors found him to be better.

And good luck trying to play the "I'M KEERRRRRRAAAAAAAZY!!!" card. You have to actually be crazy to get that or you'll be found out pretty damn fast.

[redforever]

The man has been found mentally incompetent. Yes, he might have refused his meds, many with mental illness do exactly that. If they were mentally competent, they would not refuse to take those meds, does that not make sense?

And many who take their meds, once they feel better, they become convinced they are cured, they go off their meds, the symptoms come back, often with very tragic results, sometimes the tragic death like with this young man, sometimes, the person with mental illness takes their own life. I knew someone who did exactly this.

We are only at the tip of the iceberg when it comes to treating mental illness in this country. And unfortunately, mental illness is all too often accompanied with a social stigma. Those with mental illness all too often get shunned and shoved to the wayside. Very sad, but very true.

If Canada wants to be a kinder and gentler society, then we have to get our heads out of the sand and make an attempt to understand what mental illness is and how it shows itself. And we have to make a concentrated effort to reach out and help those with mental illness. To not do so all too often ends up in tragedies such as we see here.

I feel sorry for all concerned here. There are victims on both sides.

[Russic]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

If I ran the country-side, this guy would be shot military style in the back of the head, in front of an open pit to which Li's dead body would slump into. No trial, no muss, no fuss.
Psychos like that running around is the reason I keep my shotgun handy in my truck.
Can't we just exterminate all psychos??

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I am worried what it says about our society when we can all use "I'm crazy!" as an excuse to kill someone.

Yet you would not be concerned what it would say about our society if we exterminated the mentally ill in the same way that the nazis did?

It isn't like he pulled the crazy card out from his back pocket and delivered it to the judge with a smile. He has schizophrenia and the medical and scientific evidence to back that up.

[burn_this_city]

I wish the cops shot him dead when he was parading the head around the bus and defiling the victims body. I really dont understand why they left him in there for a few hours to continue his psychotic rampage. I dont think a jury would convict a cop of murder for killing him in that situation.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I wish the cops shot him dead when he was parading the head around the bus and defiling the victims body. I really dont understand why they left him in there for a few hours to continue his psychotic rampage. I dont think a jury would convict a cop of murder for killing him in that situation.

Really? Wow, and what country exactly would that jury be located in? It's certainly not Canada.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by troutman

1 in 4 people have a mental illness.

http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/c...ull/41/17/25-a

Stats like that one are severely misleading. What it means is 1 in 4 people tend to be diagnosed with something classified as a "mental illness" at some time in their life... unfortunately, environmental things like Seasonal Affectivenss Disorder, and oft-mistaken things like ADD/ADHD tend to really force up the numbers. This is not to mention the environmentally stimulated ones like panic attacks, anxiety attacks, post-partem depression/baby blues (which apparently 1 in 3 mothers get), eating disorders, and even most instances of "mild" depression. 1 out of 4 people aren't ticking time bombs as this stat may lead you to believe.

The question is, what do you do with the small percentage that are ticking time bombs, and this is where the justice system also gets stuck. On the one hand, you can't jail someone for life because they could commit a violent crime, but at the same time, we have stringent gun control laws because they could be used in a violent crime.

With this case, is he mentally culpable? Likely no. The Crown even agrees on that point. However, this doesn't mean he should have any chance at living a free life ever again, and this is where the system fails. It becomes a question of rights and freedoms. Basically, where does his rights to exist end, and society's right to be free from dangerous psychotics like pedophiles, sex offenders, and mentally unstable killers begin. In my view, Society should not be part of a social experiment to see if mentally insane people can be reformed. The price of failure is too high. One life is already forfeited/ruined, if they commit again, that number increases significantly.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by HOOT

I just think that the hospital and/or doctor that let's him out should be held responsible for his actions once let out. They may put a lot more thought into letting people like this out if it comes back to them and their job/funding.

Agreed, which is why I think he'll never be considered 100% free of risk of not having the same sort of psychotic episode again and will never be released.

If there's even an inkling of risk, given what he did no-one's going to ever sign off on him.

[Jets4Life]

I think he should be confined to a mental hospital for life. It's a sad story as he clearly must have slipped through the cracks of the mental health system in Canada, which happens to be among the worst in any First World country. This is all too familiar to me.

In March 2006, in Red Deer, I was stabbed in the back of the neck by a paranoid schizophrenic, who as I learned later had not taken medication for a week. I was lucky. The knife bent as the force was applied, and I only received a few stitches, with the knife missing the spinal column. This all happened as a was at the drop in centre in Red Deer shortly after I arrived in the city.

It was front page news in the Red Deer Advocate in the first week of March 2006. I was interviewed by the paper. Someone told me it even made the Edmonton news (may have been in the Herald too but I can't be too sure). I've actually forgiven the guy that did it, since I was just in the wrong place at the wrong time, and there was no permanent damage. I just hope the guy that did it is still in Ponoka (Alberta Mental Hospital).

[Titan]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I wish the cops shot him dead when he was parading the head around the bus and defiling the victims body. I really dont understand why they left him in there for a few hours to continue his psychotic rampage. I dont think a jury would convict a cop of murder for killing him in that situation.

My understanding is that his "psychotic rampage" had run its course. There was no one alive on the bus. He was not a threat to anyone at that point. To kill him without him presenting a threat would in fact be murder. Had he come off the bus and attacked anyone then they could and should shoot him. I would not shed a tear. That was not the case.

These distinctions mean something and are what separate us from chaos and unimaginable brutality.

To change the topic slightly the fatawad that abducted the girl in penhold and assaulted her for two days. Clearly he is sick. Clearly he needs help. Clearly he deliberately and carefully planned his ruse and crime and knew what he was doing and the consequences. For that he should and will likely go away for a long time of shiving and rape receiving. I have no problem with that.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

That would worry me too. Luckily I live in Canada and I don't have to worry about it here. Where do you live?

Haha. There is also a huge difference between say "actual crazy" and the "Twinkie Defense."

This guy is barely human as it is in the state he is in, but he was probably not completely conscious of what he was doing. He shouldn't spend time in jail, but I am guaranteeing he is in state institutions the rest of his tormented life.