2009 NFL Off Season Thread

[Pagal4321]

I heard one other interesting thing Sunday: Cutler asked for a trade shortly after the Broncos lost offensive coordinator Jeremy Bates -- Cutler's confidant -- to USC after the season. So maybe both sides need to go into marriage counseling here.

Believe it or not, this comes from Peter King.

Makes Cutler look like a BIGGER baby for trying to play the role of the victim.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ncy/index.html

EDIT: Beaten to the punch by Bobble.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

Who would have thought that Matt Cassel would be the huge story and major trade bait of the weekend? I have to say I am absolutely disgusted by the move for Cassel made by the Chiefs. I was hoping Pioli would want to start a new in KC and make a name for himself on his terms. Looks like all he can do is try to copy his mentor, who is just going to bend him over every chance he gets. If Cassel couldn't get the Patriots to the playoffs with a super soft schedule? How the heck is he going to get the 2-14 Chiefs to the playoffs? I think Pioli needs to realize that a fluk out like Tom Brady only happens once in a generation. Does he actually think that the selection of Tom Brady in the 7th round was a smart move by himself and Belichek? It was a total fluk, and to think that he thinks that Cassel is another 7th round QB gem HOFer in the waiting is laughable. I really hope I'm wrong, but to me it looks like the Chiefs are setting themselves for a decade of failure. A questionable coaching hire and now blowing the 34th pick overall on a backup QB who wants to be paid like a top 5 QB. Great move Scott.

I think you are WAY over reacting to this.

KC needed a QB...Pioli got one he is familiar with and who performed brilliantly in what was, for all intents and purposes, his rookie season in the NFL. On top of all that, there is nothing precluding KC from drafting a QB this year or next as the rebuild goes on. Getting Vrabel and Cassell for a 2nd rd pick was hardly "getting bent over" by Belichik. NE needed to move Cassell to make some cap room to re-sign their own guys (Wilfork comes to mind). KC on the other hand, had some 40 million in cap room to absorb such a cap hit. This was a no-brainer IMO.

also, I cant think of a better model to follow in the NFL than that of the Patriots...why you would be worried one of the architects of that club is now bringing the same philosophy to his new team is, quite frankly, confusing.

[moon]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I wonder what it is with football players versus other sports....just an unreal amount of idiotism with them vs even basketballers. Weird.

I think a lot of it has to do with the number of players on a football roster.

If Basketball teams had 50+ guys I can't imagine how many Artests, Wallaces, Jacksons etc. that there would be out there.

Also, it seems that football "stars" are treated more like gods in many areas of the states than other sports.

Even where basketball is king I am not sure they get treated with the same reverence and complete immunity that football guys do.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I think you are WAY over reacting to this.

KC needed a QB...Pioli got one he is familiar with and who performed brilliantly in what was, for all intents and purposes, his rookie season in the NFL. On top of all that, there is nothing precluding KC from drafting a QB this year or next as the rebuild goes on. Getting Vrabel and Cassell for a 2nd rd pick was hardly "getting bent over" by Belichik. NE needed to move Cassell to make some cap room to re-sign their own guys (Wilfork comes to mind). KC on the other hand, had some 40 million in cap room to absorb such a cap hit. This was a no-brainer IMO.

also, I cant think of a better model to follow in the NFL than that of the Patriots...why you would be worried one of the architects of that club is now bringing the same philosophy to his new team is, quite frankly, confusing.

Over reacting? Possibly, you could have cooked an egg on my forehead on Saturday. To state it simply, I like Tyler Thigpen, he played pretty good on a lousy team. The Chiefs were close in every game that Thigpen was the starter with the exception of the Buffalo Bills blowout at home (after the Chiefs switched to the spread offense). Sure he only won 1 game as a starter, but it isn't his fault that the defensive line was the worst in the league, possibly even league history.

If you look at Cassel's wins and loses. In his 11 wins only three were against teams with winning records. In four of his five loses the teams had winning records and the 5th was .500. That was behind a team that went 16-0 the season before. What can Matt do behind a 2-14 team? Some have said that Matt was basically a rookie. He still had four years in the Patriots system to practice and learn. Thigpen was in his second year on his second team with no real playing experience either. He was thrown to the wolves when KC lost Croyle and Huard for the season to injury.

When a team goes 2-14 there is obviously a lot wrong. I think the QB was one of the decent parts of that team. The front 7 of the defense needs a major overhaul to improve the record of the Kansas City Chiefs. Obviously Pioli learned under one of the best. Still I think you need to do things your own way to distinguish yourself in this league. All he has done so far is trade for players off his old teams scrap heap.

[Bobblehead]

All the articles I've read so far are saying the Patriots gave the Chiefs a gift.

I personally think Cassel's success was a result of his system, and we don't really know how good or bad of a QB he is. There have been a lot of players in a lot of different positions that have excelled in the Patriots' system that have looked very average on other teams. I do think there is a good chance of Cassel being very good; he has a season under his belt so that has to account for something. I just wouldn't consider him "proven".

[transplant99]

If you look at Cassel's wins and loses. In his 11 wins only three were against teams with winning records

You can only play the games on your schedule.

I like Tyler Thigpen, he played pretty good on a lousy team. The Chiefs were close in every game that Thigpen was the starter with the exception of the Buffalo Bills blowout at home (after the Chiefs switched to the spread offense). Sure he only won 1 game as a starter, but it isn't his fault that the defensive line was the worst in the league, possibly even league history.

Thigpen will still be there i believe.

If you look at Cassel's wins and loses. In his 11 wins only three were against teams with winning records.

Again...you can only play the games scheduled each weekend.

In four of his five loses the teams had winning records and the 5th was .500. That was behind a team that went 16-0 the season before.

In those 5 losses...the defense gave up over 30 points a game...you cant blame one defense and not the other.

Some have said that Matt was basically a rookie. He still had four years in the Patriots system to practice and learn.

And he will be in a Patriots type system again this year.

Obviously Pioli learned under one of the best. Still I think you need to do things your own way to distinguish yourself in this league. All he has done so far is trade for players off his old teams scrap heap

So they hired him for his success in NE...and you want him to change away from that?? Makes zero sense.

And I dont think Cassell is "scrap heap" material whatsoever.....he was a salary cap relief trade.

KC certainly has other holes to fill on D...no question but that should not preclude Pioli and Co. from addressing needs on offense as well.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3943945

Raiders LB Marquis Cooper is the boat's owner and is also missing, along with two former USF football players.

Hope they turn out to be ok somehow.

Not looking good...ESPN just reported that one survivor was found floating at seas....no sign of the other three.

The lone survivor is niether one of the players.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by transplant99

So they hired him for his success in NE...and you want him to change away from that?? Makes zero sense.

And I dont think Cassell is "scrap heap" material whatsoever.....he was a salary cap relief trade.

KC certainly has other holes to fill on D...no question but that should not preclude Pioli and Co. from addressing needs on offense as well.

I should have worded that better. I think Belichek is a great leader, who has surrounded himself with great people. Now obviously Pioli has learned from the best in Belichek and his father in law Bill Parcells. Still at the GM position you need to be a leader not a follower. Pioli has not been on the job that long so I will still give him the benefit of the doubt. The Cassel trade still does not impress me, like I said in my initial post, I hope I'm wrong, but right now it looks like a bad move to me. Or at the very least, unnecessary.

Ownership has said that they want to develop a franchise QB. The one thing the Chiefs have never done is develop a franchise QB. In the Peterson era it was find a veteran and plug him in to win now. Obviously that didn't get the Lombardi trophy. Even Len Dawson was a cast off of the Browns and Steelers before he landed with the Texans / Chiefs (I know, maybe Cassel will end up the second coming of Dawson, here's hoping ). In my view, Cassel isn't any different than Thigpen in that regard. He played well in a backup roll. I think that it was a waste to trade the 34th pick overall to basically bring in something you already have. Not only that, Cassel still needs to be signed. What is the starting point going to be for a QB who was potentially going to get $14,000,000 for 1 year earlier in the week? Even if the Patriots had no real intentions to actually pay the $14,000,000. You can bet his agent is going to start right there.

[Displaced Flames fan]

I think the move to get Cassell was a steal in terms of value. In terms of building the Chiefs I think it was complete shat.

As for Cutler, this is the first we are hearing of this and it seems kind of odd that we only hear about it now. A little damage control by McDaniels? Possibly. We also don't that, if Cutler did in fact ask to be traded, he was talked out of it and rescended the request. Seeing him interviewed even a week ago I have seen no indication that he didn't want to be a Bronco.

And I'll say it again....regardless of the situation...if McDaniels was seriously considering trading Cutler for Cassell while at the same time convincing one of the greatest defensive leaders in the history of the NFL to sign in Denver for a swan song and a chance to win a ring then he is truly a complete moron.

Tyler Thigpen=Matt Cassell

[burn_baby_burn]

Looks like I'm the only idiot who thinks the Cassel deal was a bad one. Controversy brewing over the deal league wide.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shu...urn=nfl,144951

The thinking is that Belichick traded Cassel to the Chiefs at a discount as a favor to his old pal Pioli. At least three people have outright accused Belichick of it, or at least hinted at it: Jay Mariotti compares the trade to Spygate and thinks Roger Goodell needs to take action, Albert Breer talks about the head-scratching going on around the league, and Tim Graham calls the trade "inexplicable."
Graham also reports, via Chris Mortensen, that the Patriots could have gotten a first-round pick, the 12th overall, for Cassel in a three-way trade that would've also involved Jay Cutler, but we'll get to that a bit later. In the meantime, here's a nutshell version of the two different ways of seeing the Cassel-to-KC deal.

The Chris Mortensen link should be taken with a grain of salt. The guy is turning into Eklund.

[transplant99]

Jay Mariotti compares the trade to Spygate and thinks Roger Goodell needs to take action

Just ridiculous....Belichik and Pioli are free to trade as they see fit....why the hell would Goodell need to get involved?

The Chris Mortensen link should be taken with a grain of salt. The guy is turning into Eklund.

how do you figure that? The guy is very well placed.....not sure what he has done/said that would cause that kind of comment...truly asking.

[Bobblehead]

Maybe it is a bad deal. But unless there is any sort of hidden conditions out there, I don't think the deal can be negated. There are no rules against bad deals.



Edit: and I believe I read that Cassel signed the Franchise offer, so he is guaranteed $14M regardless of what happens this season, but the Chiefs are free to attempt to renegotiate a longer term deal to spread out that hit.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3891669

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by transplant99

how do you figure that? The guy is very well placed.....not sure what he has done/said that would cause that kind of comment...truly asking.

I should have backed that up before I posted it. I think he used to be well connected. Recently he has brought up some rumors or pending transactions that were completely out of left field. Which ones exactly I can't remember. Maybe I'm just to used to the NFL Network, and Sirius NFL Radio, who don't report rumors only facts. When they say somebody has been traded or signed before it is official. They are always correct.

[AaronSJ]

Last year, the #12 pick "cost" ~$11.5 million in guaranteed money (Ryan Clady), while the #34 pick "cost" ~$2.7 million in guaranteed money (Devin Thomas).

Based on that, I think you can make a case that the #34 pick is more valuable than the #12 pick.

I can't see why this trade shouldn't be legit.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

I should have backed that up before I posted it. I think he used to be well connected. Recently he has brought up some rumors or pending transactions that were completely out of left field. Which ones exactly I can't remember. Maybe I'm just to used to the NFL Network, and Sirius NFL Radio, who don't report rumors only facts. When they say somebody has been traded or signed before it is official. They are always correct.

fair enough...im not aware of anything he has claimed of late, (something that didnt have as speculation anyhow) that was patently false. though it certianly could of occurred and i just missed it.

Again...just this AM he stated he talked directly to Cutler last night and reported that Cutler would not be reporting to meet with McDaniels this week...that was the first report of such....just an example.

[Joborule]

Jeez, if Cutler is holding out thanks to some rumors, he needs to chill out. I don't like the attitude if he doesn't like the idea of being in trades talks, how unbalanced they may be.

And with Marshall, what is with that guy getting in trouble again...

Controversy out of no where in Denver right now.

[rubecube]

The charges against Marshall have been dropped.

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_11818361?source=rss

EDIT: Still this guy seems to have no qualms towards beating down his women.

[Jason14h]

And he's still screwed

The NFL reportedly reduced Brandon Marshall's three-game suspension to one game in 2008 with the "warning" that any more run-ins with the law could lead to a "lengthy" ban.

Charges were dropped in Marshall's latest incident but he was arrested, which is still grounds for discipline. He probably wouldn't be facing another suspension if he hadn't been arrested three times as a pro before this. We suspect that Marshall will not be available for Week 1, at least, in 2009.

[Bobblehead]

Seahawks sign T.J. Houshmandzadeh.

That makes the NFC West a bit tougher.

[mykalberta]

Do you think they can win the Superbowl with Cutler?

I dont. Maybe its just the Jake Plummer fan in me but I dont think he ever wins the Superbowl with the level of competition in the NFL.

For me that means you move him when his stock is high. Yes they do get set back with that scenario I agree.