Ann Coulter on teachers

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by peter12

Absolutely.

Although given the crucial role of the teacher, I would argue it takes a much higher precedence. None of those other professions have been chosen by society to be stewards of its children.

Well sure. But at the same time....your life is in the hands of your mechanic everyday in terms of fixing your car. A screw up by an accountant(s) can put a family or business in big financial peril. Etc.

There are good apples and bad apples in everything. Its not teaching specific.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by myst

That is exactly how things work. Even in the states. Teachers are dedicated a whole 'block' (1.5hours) a day for preparing and planning lectures.

It isn't how things work here. You posted a link to a Catholic girls school in Kentucky and basically said "this is a typical schedule for a student, and this is what a teacher does".

The schedule might be similar (to a Catholic school), but teachers here don't do what you described. At least mine didn't. And the ones I know actually do mark the student's work.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by DESS

I don't think a strong or even venomous tone is evidence of trolling.

Agreed.

Bent - I imagine your dad would have then been a workaholic no matter what job he had. That kind of a time commitment is not something that is required of teachers.

People who dedicated their lives to the stewardship and development of our children/youth/young adults know and accept that to be a great teacher one does, in fact, have to do all those extra things. Teachers are there to inspire students to reach for and achieve 'greatness' and it begins through leading by example.

I had two favorite teachers in high school. Both band teachers. One of them was the program founder who has won the Prime Minister's award for teaching (twice, I think...) and has lead his band for 35 years. They compete in international events all over the world and have won international titles. When I was there we went to Japan.

They are the only high school marching program in the country. It is because they organized a parent body to run massive fundraisers to pay for uniforms, equipment, etc etc etc. The program costs approximately $80,000-$120,000 per year to run.

Want to know what the School Board pitches towards that???

$3000

If they enjoy spending their free time enriching themselves and their students as a result, that is wonderful.

It inspired me in ways you cannot imagine.

Again, a lot of people give more than what is required of them to their jobs, but it is not something taxpayers should be expected to compensate them for.

If you begrudge this example for making a paltry 59,000 a year for dedicating his entire life to that band program then why not enlighten us to what you think might be a better figure? Oh, but then there is THIS gem...

I would expect the appreciation they receive from their students is gratitude/compensation enough. If not I don't see why else they would do it.

So maybe he should work for free? Oh hell, maybe everybody who isn't completely miserable with their lives should work for free??? Would that make you feel better?

I really need to find a job like the ones you guys all seem to have.

Then go back to school and get at least a Bachelor degree in something you actually enjoy. Then find a niche and run with it. If you're irreplacable because you're super skilled, educated, AND a pleasant person to be around then generally you don't have to do things like quibble over "minimum vacation time allotments" and all that BS.

The law allows for two weeks off a year for the first five years of employment, topping out at three weeks off a year after five years with the same employer. I believe more than 50% of jobs in Calgary only provide the minimum time off. If anybody could find a stat on this, it would be interesting. I'm not sure where one would go to look.

(http://www.law-faqs.org/wiki/index.php/L-vac-04)
What is the minimum vacation time that I am entitled to as an employee?

The [Employment Standards Code] provides for a minimum of two weeks vacation after 12 months of employment and a minimum of three weeks after five years of employment. Your employer can always agree to give you more than the minimum.


EDIT: And just to clear up a loose end, the other band teacher decided that teaching in a high school wasn't for him anymore, and left to eventually become the entertainment director for the Calgary Stampede. I'm sure he now makes a lot more than 59,000 a year.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by peter12

Absolutely.

Although given the crucial role of the teacher, I would argue it takes a much higher precedence. None of those other professions have been chosen by society to be stewards of its children.

If anyone chose teachers to be the stewards of anything we're insane.

Teachers have more of an opportunity than most to make a difference in the lives of others for sure. And I applaud those that do. But it's hardly a job requirement, it not what they get rewarded for, and it's definitely not exclusive to the profession.

I think this is union rhetoric that they probably wish they'd never started, because now they are screwed. No one wants (or is capable of handling, frankly) this kind of reponsibility. Now some parents buy in - thats even worse.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

If anyone chose teachers to be the stewards of anything we're insane.

Teachers have more of an opportunity than most to make a difference in the lives of others for sure. And I applaud those that do. But it's hardly a job requirement, it not what they get rewarded for, and it's definitely not exclusive to the profession.

I think this is union rhetoric that they probably wish they'd never started, because now they are screwed. No one wants (or is capable of handling, frankly) this kind of reponsibility. Now some parents buy in - thats even worse.

I agree. They allowed the examples of the exceptions and not the majority become the banner for all educators...and that is not fair. Not only does it take away from the achievements of truly great teachers, it creates a false sense of expectations from the parents.

What makes a great teacher truly great is that they can inspire the kids to truly work harder than they ever have in their lives for anything.

I'd say less than 5% of educators are in this league.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

I agree. They allowed the examples of the exceptions and not the majority become the banner for all educators...and that is not fair. Not only does it take away from the achievements of truly great teachers, it creates a false sense of expectations from the parents.

What makes a great teacher truly great is that they can inspire the kids to truly work harder than they ever have in their lives for anything.

I'd say less than 5% of educators are in this league.

Maybe this is the case, but tell me, how many parents would you say fall in that same category?

[moon]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Maybe this is the case, but tell me, how many parents would you say fall in that same category?

If the number we are going on is 5% or less than 5% for teachers then my guess would be 70% of parents at least.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by moon

If the number we are going on is 5% or less than 5% for teachers then my guess would be 70% of parents at least.

I would disagree with your numbers.

[moon]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

I would disagree with your numbers.

Thats fine. I know my numbers for parents might be a little low, but considering the teachers union on CP I didn't want to put it too high.

My main point is that parents are much more effective at getting kids to work harder than teachers are and whether the number is 70% or 80% I think the point is made.

[ma-skis.com]

Originally Posted by moon

Thats fine. I know my numbers for parents might be a little low, but considering the teachers union on CP I didn't want to put it too high.

My main point is that parents are much more effective at getting kids to work harder than teachers are and whether the number is 70% or 80% I think the point is made.

95% of all statistics are made up on the spot, makes it hard for them to be held valid or have any real authority in an argument.

[bcb]

Originally Posted by moon

Thats fine. I know my numbers for parents might be a little low, but considering the teachers union on CP I didn't want to put it too high.

My main point is that parents are much more effective at getting kids to work harder than teachers are and whether the number is 70% or 80% I think the point is made.

Could you please tell those inspiring parents to come to Parent teacher interviews in a few weeks?

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by ma-skis.com

95% of all statistics are made up on the spot, makes it hard for them to be held valid or have any real authority in an argument.

But the fascinating thing is that 75% of made up statistics are at least 80% accurate 50% of the time.

It amazes me anyone bothers researching anything.

[moon]

Originally Posted by ma-skis.com

95% of all statistics are made up on the spot, makes it hard for them to be held valid or have any real authority in an argument.

Those numbers aren't stats they are estimates.

Of course they are made up. How the heck would anyone realisitically be able to come up with stats to measure how/whether a teacher/parent encourages there kids to do better?

[redforever]

Originally Posted by moon

Thats fine. I know my numbers for parents might be a little low, but considering the teachers union on CP I didn't want to put it too high.

My main point is that parents are much more effective at getting kids to work harder than teachers are and whether the number is 70% or 80% I think the point is made.

I have been both a teacher and am a parent as well. That statement simply is not true. It might work to a certain point with young children, but once kids are a certain age, motivation is by and large from within.

Anyone who has parented teenagers or coached teenagers knows of what I speak.

[DESS]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

I had two favorite teachers in high school. Both band teachers...It inspired me in ways you cannot imagine. If you begrudge this example for making a paltry 59,000 a year for dedicating his entire life to that band program then why not enlighten us to what you think might be a better figure?

A couple of things. First of all, $59,000 is too low and I'm not sure where you got that number. My guess is that is an extremely outdated number for veteran teacher (maybe from the 1990s?). Here is what teachers actually make. In case you don't feel like checking the link, it is from that Alberta Teachers' Association website, item 3. A teacher with his/her Masters of Teaching (basic requirement for a teacher coming out of the UofC) with 0 years of experience makes $54,449/year. A teacher with 11 years of experience makes $82,999/year.

Secondly, even with a current pay schedule, maybe your teacher did deserve more. I know a merit-based system has been brought up - it would be nice to see these sorts of teachers rewarded to a greater degree than teachers that don't give so much.

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

So maybe he should work for free? Oh hell, maybe everybody who isn't completely miserable with their lives should work for free??? Would that make you feel better?

I can't figure out where you're coming from with this.

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

Then go back to school and get at least a Bachelor degree in something you actually enjoy. Then find a niche and run with it. If you're irreplacable because you're super skilled, educated, AND a pleasant person to be around then generally you don't have to do things like quibble over "minimum vacation time allotments" and all that BS.

I have a degree and I do enjoy my job. Just because, as a taxpayer, I feel as though I'm getting a raw deal with the agreements we've made with teachers' unions and teachers as a result, doesn't mean I don't like my job.

And it's very insensitive of you to minimize "minimum vacation time allotments" (you used the derogatory word "quibble" and you lumped it in with "BS") and the effects these have on real people. I suggested that more than half of Calgarians do in fact receive the minimum, but actually I'm sure it's way more than half. I'm having a hard time finding Canadian stats to back me up, but this American link is at least food for thought - it shows just how little holiday time people actually get. The national average in 1996 for full-time employees was just 7.6 days of paid holiday time.

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

(http://www.law-faqs.org/wiki/index.php/L-vac-04)
What is the minimum vacation time that I am entitled to as an employee?

The [Employment Standards Code] provides for a minimum of two weeks vacation after 12 months of employment and a minimum of three weeks after five years of employment. Your employer can always agree to give you more than the minimum.

Well in the past few years in Calgary with the labour shortage a lot of us have done well, but the tables have turned and now employers are going to once again have the upper hand. There are a great many employers that offer this minimum. Yes, there are some exceptions that offer more (especially in the competitive labour market we've seen here recently), but still a great many people just receive the minimum.

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

EDIT: And just to clear up a loose end, the other band teacher decided that teaching in a high school wasn't for him anymore, and left to eventually become the entertainment director for the Calgary Stampede. I'm sure he now makes a lot more than 59,000 a year.

I want to reiterate that the $59,000 is highly suspect. I would imagine he now works a full year as well.

[DESS]

Originally Posted by BuzzardsWife

what planet is dess from? please reply with photos cuz i need a real good explanation

Are you looking for nudes? lol

I'd do it but I don't want Buzzard to beat me up.

[HotHotHeat]

Sort of off topic, but Bill Maher is doing what he called a 'debate series' with this woman coming up next week. Surely it will be largely religious in topic, but I look forward to seeing a level headed, intelligent guy rip this woman a new one.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by DESS

A couple of things. First of all, $59,000 is too low and I'm not sure where you got that number. My guess is that is an extremely outdated number for veteran teacher (maybe from the 1990s?). Here is what teachers actually make. In case you don't feel like checking the link, it is from that Alberta Teachers' Association website, item 3. A teacher with his/her Masters of Teaching (basic requirement for a teacher coming out of the UofC) with 0 years of experience makes $54,449/year. A teacher with 11 years of experience makes $82,999/year.

First of all, a Masters is not the basic requirement for teaching. Many teachers do not obtain their masters until years after teaching, but since you know so much about teachers, I am not sure why you make such a incorrect statement.

Really though, that is beside the point. $54,000 is an ok wage, nothing great but enough to get by on. After 11 years $83,000, that is a pretty good wage, a decent wage that someone with 6 years of schooling and 11 years of experience deserves. Especially someone doing a job as important as teaching the people who will run our country in the future. We aren't talking about Tim Hortons employees here. One thing that you should be happy about is that teachers only get a raise of whatever the cost of living increase is.

Here are a few other starting salaries.

Chemical engineering grads' - $63,749
computer science majors - $56,921
engineering graduates - $56,336
finance and accounting graduates - $48,795 and $47,413
Economics - $52,926
Nursing - $52,129

Remember, these are mostly 4 year degrees. These starting salaries seem pretty close to what the teachers start out at. So, why are you so pissed off?

Lets look at an entry level clerk position in the federal government. Someone who answers phones.
https://psjobs-emploisfp.psc-cfp.gc....noBackBtn=true

Starting salary is $40,101.

What is the educational requirements? Oh ya, Successful completion of secondary school.

So are you telling me that 4-6 years of post secondary education is not worth an additional $14,000 a year starting? Like really I don't understand you. Are you just pissed off because you don't make as much as teachers do, so you are trying to find someone to vent your anger on?

I have a degree and I do enjoy my job. Just because, as a taxpayer, I feel as though I'm getting a raw deal with the agreements we've made with teachers' unions and teachers as a result, doesn't mean I don't like my job.

Please see above....

And it's very insensitive of you to minimize "minimum vacation time allotments" (you used the derogatory word "quibble" and you lumped it in with "BS") and the effects these have on real people. I suggested that more than half of Calgarians do in fact receive the minimum, but actually I'm sure it's way more than half. I'm having a hard time finding Canadian stats to back me up, but this American link is at least food for thought - it shows just how little holiday time people actually get. The national average in 1996 for full-time employees was just 7.6 days of paid holiday time.

The word "quibble" is far from derogatory.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by DESS

A couple of things. First of all, $59,000 is too low and I'm not sure where you got that number. My guess is that is an extremely outdated number for veteran teacher (maybe from the 1990s?). Here is what teachers actually make. In case you don't feel like checking the link, it is from that Alberta Teachers' Association website, item 3. A teacher with his/her Masters of Teaching (basic requirement for a teacher coming out of the UofC) with 0 years of experience makes $54,449/year. A teacher with 11 years of experience makes $82,999/year.

Fair enough. 82,999/year is the epitome fair for the example I used.

Secondly, even with a current pay schedule, maybe your teacher did deserve more. I know a merit-based system has been brought up - it would be nice to see these sorts of teachers rewarded to a greater degree than teachers that don't give so much.

Agreed!

I can't figure out where you're coming from with this.

You said this:

If they enjoy spending their free time enriching themselves and their students as a result, that is wonderful. Again, a lot of people give more than what is required of them to their jobs, but it is not something taxpayers should be expected to compensate them for.

To which I replied:

Originally Posted by Traddy

So maybe he should work for free? Oh hell, maybe everybody who isn't completely miserable with their lives should work for free??? Would that make you feel better?

...which was perhaps a little over the top, so I apologize. Let me put it this way. Its billable hours, isnt it? Wouldn't that make it essentially over-time? Sorry, but billable hours is billable hours.

I have a degree and I do enjoy my job. Just because, as a taxpayer, I feel as though I'm getting a raw deal with the agreements we've made with teachers' unions and teachers as a result, doesn't mean I don't like my job.

You want to talk about getting a raw deal as a taxpayer?????? Talk to the effing government about horrible waste, mis-management and gluttony. Give me a break, you're mad as a taxpayer about the teacher's union???? I can think of a tonne of hospitals, schools, gun registries, and other major financial debacles that are far more significant than the friggin teacher's union. Paul Martin and his shipping line anyone? Or maybe how Ed Stelmach pissed away the spoils of the recent economic boom?

Teacher's union....pffft.

And it's very insensitive of you to minimize "minimum vacation time allotments" (you used the derogatory word "quibble" and you lumped it in with "BS") and the effects these have on real people. I suggested that more than half of Calgarians do in fact receive the minimum, but actually I'm sure it's way more than half. I'm having a hard time finding Canadian stats to back me up, but this American link is at least food for thought - it shows just how little holiday time people actually get. The national average in 1996 for full-time employees was just 7.6 days of paid holiday time.

So move to Germany (I used to live there), where the only thing open on a Sunday is the Hospital, the Fire-house, the Jail, and the Church. Can't even buy milk. That is 52 more stat-holidays a year! But their economy is doing just great I hear!

[MJK]

Originally Posted by DESS

Geez you guys. I can't believe there isn't one single person on here that ever backs me up on anything I say. This forum should be called PC not CP since there isn't anybody ever willing to say anything politically incorrect. (feel free to sig that one, lol)

I'm not saying teachers don't care about their jobs or their students, that's ######ed. It's just completely obvious that as a job, it's easier than every other job.Less hours per day, less days per year, very good salary, amazing benefits, full pension. Yet they complain CONSTANTLY.

I teach in Nunavut.
I work 8:30-3:30 Mon-Fri
I coach basketball Mon-Wed-Fri 4-6
I fundraise every Thurs 7-10
I plan every night 8-9
I correct papers once a week or so
I volunteer to go to Science camp, science fair, basketball tournaments, music club, most of which happen on weekends.

If you think a teacher works 8:30-3:30 you are sadly mistaken.