Coalition Deal To Topple Minority Tory Govt- [Update Parliament Prorogued until Jan]

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Government is continuing to work. It's just Parliament that is not sitting.

And the truth is, Parliament was expected to sit only this week, then adjourn for Christmas. The next sitting of Parliament was scheduled, iirc, for a week before the Prorouge is set to expire.

The ultimate effect on Parliament is that MPs wont be in the House for a grand total of two weeks longer than was already planned.

Right, and I believe the only thing the gov't can not do would be make appointments, such as the Senate etc, sign peace treaties, those type of things.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by calculoso

http://www.ipsos-na.com/news/pressrelease.cfm?id=4201

"What Canadians are witnessing has shaken them pretty much to the core: almost three quarters (72%) of Canadians indicate that they are truly scared for the future of the country with what is going on in Ottawa and the majority (62%) is angry with the Coalition taking over power from the governing Conservatives -- in fact, a majority in every region of the country is angry at the situation, except in Quebec where only 39% expressed this view.

The potential backlash against the Coalition partners is now palpable in the data: if a Federal election were held today it's likely that the Conservatives would reap a very large majority government with 46% of decided voters supporting the Conservatives, compared with 23% for the Liberals, 13% for the NDP, 9% for the Bloc Quebecois (37% in Québec) and 8% for the Green party. Five percent (5%) remain undecided."


Very telling, indeed.

[LChoy]

From same article Calculoso posted:

It's evident that, except in Québec and Atlantic Canada where the view is split (50% supporting /46% opposing in Quebec, 49% oppose/44% support in Atlantic Canada), every other province and region of the country is decidedly against the coalition taking power: Alberta (83%), Ontario (65%), British Columbia (63%), and Saskatchewan/Manitoba (57%). This compares with support for the coalition within British Columbia (37%), Saskatchewan and Manitoba (36%), Ontario (32%) and Alberta (17%).

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by ikaris

Just give it some time. As this crisis will likely blow over with the status-quo remaining, the Liberals will regroup with a new leader and will campaign that they were the reason that Ontario got the stimulus that they needed. It will be a pretty convincing argument as well considering what has transpired.

The Liberals would not allow an election to happen right now as they don't have the money, leadership, or national support to wage a battle. But the Conservatives have awoken a sleeping giant and it will be interesting to see how this all plays out over the next year and a half.

Agreed. And for this reason alone, the coalition will fail. One thing we are seeing, which the GG and her advisors will also notice, is that this coalition does not have the support of Canadians. The chance of the GG agreeing to hand power to the opposition rather than dissolve Parliament are growing more remote by the hour.

The Liberals have to play ball with the Conservatives.

It's almost a shame Ronald Pagan got himself banned. I would have loved to see how he would have spun this.

[redgreen 59]

Following the recent actions of the Liberals,NDP and Separatists form
Coalition to Overthrow the Government of Stephen Harper's Conservatives.
Some teams in the NHL have decided to take similar actions....
Having decided that the Detroit Redwings technically won the 2008
Stanley Cup, the Pittsburgh Penguins, Philadelphia Flyers and Dallas
Stars have formed a coalition demanding a three way ownership of the
league title. Rational for their decision revolves around their total
combined scoring in the 2008 Semi-Finals, their total share of season
ticket holders versus the Detroit Redwings and their horror at
discovering the Detroit Redwings are using a more cost effective and
efficient but non-union made Silver polish to keep the Stanley Cup
gleaming.
The three teams are being assisted in their bid to overturn the
traditional results by members of the Quebec Hockey League who have no
real interest in the success of the NHL in general but sense an
opportunity to demand Zambonis and other critical equipment be
manufactured in Quebec. Player representatives, Team Owners and Nike are
expected to submit their proposals to Don Cherry in the next few days.
Fans and ticket holders are neither being asked or allowed a voice in
the final decision.

[LChoy]

Originally Posted by redgreen 59

Following the recent actions of the Liberals,NDP and Separatists form
Coalition to Overthrow the Government of Stephen Harper's Conservatives.
Some teams in the NHL have decided to take similar actions....
Having decided that the Detroit Redwings technically won the 2008
Stanley Cup, the Pittsburgh Penguins, Philadelphia Flyers and Dallas
Stars have formed a coalition demanding a three way ownership of the
league title. Rational for their decision revolves around their total
combined scoring in the 2008 Semi-Finals, their total share of season
ticket holders versus the Detroit Redwings and their horror at
discovering the Detroit Redwings are using a more cost effective and
efficient but non-union made Silver polish to keep the Stanley Cup
gleaming.
The three teams are being assisted in their bid to overturn the
traditional results by members of the Quebec Hockey League who have no
real interest in the success of the NHL in general but sense an
opportunity to demand Zambonis and other critical equipment be
manufactured in Quebec. Player representatives, Team Owners and Nike are
expected to submit their proposals to Don Cherry in the next few days.
Fans and ticket holders are neither being asked or allowed a voice in
the final decision.

FATA
http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=66383

[Kerplunk]

I think it was a good move to prorogue until an actual budget can be presented. Then they can have a confidence vote on something that matters. Hopefully everyone can play nice and make up a budget that is good for Canada and not just the political parties.

My main hope right now is that the coalition as it stands right now doesn't gain power, for two reasons:
1) I don't think just throwing money at the economy is going to help it, especially with the fairly loose "plans" that they currently have.
2) Dion is one of the worst political speakers I have heard. There is no way he should represent Canada to the world.

[old-fart]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

I can find changes in the form of the Belfour Declaration of 1926 (which made the Governor General at representative of the Crown only, as opposed to the Crown and British Parliament) and 1931 Statute of Wellington which stated that no longer would British law automatically extend to the Commonwealth. But I can't see where any of the Governor Generals powers were curtailed.

Do you have the references handy, I'm curious about it now.

Certainly the most significant was the Belfour declaration, making the GG the representative of the Crown only, not the British Parliament. That, in effect, means the GG has roughly the same sway here as the Queen does in England - which is to say very little.

You are correct in saying that, according to the letter of the law (consistution), the GG does have some broad discretionary powers. However, as others have pointed out, the GG will not use them or it will be seen as the Queen exerting her will over the elected representatives of Canada. The Queen, or GG, is not elected and never has to face the people in a vote. If the GG did anything but what the PM recommends, there would be a great hue and cry from the masses that the Queen is medling in the affairs of Canada, and we wouldn't be a consistutional monarchy much longer. The Queen knows that very well and I'd expect if the GG didn't take the PM's advice, that the Queen would remove the GG pretty much on the spot.

Those on the Libs/Dippers/Traitors side that want the GG to step in and do anything but what the PM recommends are suggesting a very slippery slope.

The GG gets to make one decision - post election she gets to decide who is PM. From that point until the next election is concluded, she pretty much HAS to do what the PM recommends. If post election there is no clear winner (i.e. one party with a majority of the seats) she needs to determine who likely has the best chance to achieve a majority of the house's support. When one part has 140 some seats and the next closest is 70 some, it is a pretty easy decision. IF, and that's a big IF, the Libs/Dippers/Traitors had an agreement prior to her picking Steve, they might have had a chance. Personally, I think the support of the Bloq would have had to be more formal as the Libs + Dippers still doesn't equal the Conservatives, but at least the arguement could have been made.

Look at it this way... Steve will have to face the people again sometime. Technically, he only has to have the parliament sit for one day a year, so he could use that wild card. He could prorouge almost indefinitely. If he does, he'll certainly lose the next election in a landslide. That's why PMs don't do these things often, nor should they. It is hardly the first time a PM has ducked a confidence vote though. Does no one remember 3 and a half years ago and Paul Martin cancelling opposition days and any vote that might be remotely a confidence vote, despite the fact he had lost several other critical votes (none of them officially 'confidence' votes, but it was clear he had lost the confidence of the house). He delayed and delayed until he could bribe a member of the opposition to switch sides and save his hide. Where was the great Liberal outcry for that one?

[old-fart]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Government is continuing to work. It's just Parliament that is not sitting.

And the truth is, Parliament was expected to sit only this week, then adjourn for Christmas. The next sitting of Parliament was scheduled, iirc, for a week before the Prorouge is set to expire.

The ultimate effect on Parliament is that MPs wont be in the House for a grand total of two weeks longer than was already planned.

I believe the prorouge ends the same day it parliament was set to come back, and I heard on the news yesterday that the net effect was missing 4 extra days (basically, Monday-Thursday next week). That's it.

[Rerun]

Facebook's "Canadians Against a Liberal/NDP Coalition Gov't" now has 119,531 members since this group was started on Nov. 29/08
http://www.facebook.com/s.php?q=ndp&...id=51442165364

The Facebook group for the coalition has 5366 members.
http://www.facebook.com/s.php?q=ndp&...id=51482725308

[ikaris]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

The Liberals have to play ball with the Conservatives.

You're right, they will have to work with each other moving forward on policy decisions because Canadians want to see this happen. Ultimately, I think we as Canadians benefit the most after all of this because we should all expect that they will work together more to save their own hides. Hopefully the Bloc and NDP get marginalized. It's not that I don't agree with their existence (well except for the separatists), it's just that economically we can't support their policies right now.

Unfortunately though, what I fear is that Alberta (and to a lesser extent Saskatchewan) is going to get screwed because the Conservatives will be forced to offer Quebec money that initially they wouldn't have had to. Looking at the gloom though in the energy markets, I don't think they can really take anymore from us.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Facebook's "Canadians Against a Liberal/NDP Coalition Gov't" now has 119,531 members since this group was started on Nov. 29/08
http://www.facebook.com/s.php?q=ndp&...id=51442165364

The Facebook group for the coalition has 5366 members.
http://www.facebook.com/s.php?q=ndp&...id=51482725308

Well I guess this proves, once and for all, that the coalition represents the majority of Canadians.

[flylock shox]

This prorogue is no fun at all. I miss the craziness.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by SebC

On giving power to the Bloc:

Bloc < Liberals + NDP + Conservatives

Whilst that may seem irrelevant, it isn't.

Not entirely. If the Liberal-NDP coalition is supported by the Conservatives, then they don't need the Bloc.

Clearly, the Liberals and the NDP have demonstrated here that they would rather give power to the Bloc than support the Conservatives.

However, as far-fetched as it seems, the possibility exists for the Conservatives to give the Liberal-NDP coalition their assurances that they would not vote against the government in a non-confidence measure.

That would remove the Bloc from the equation.

By not doing so, the Conservatives demonstrate that they would rather give power to the Bloc than support the Liberals.

They are just as willing to "jump in bed with the seperatists" as the Liberals.

Of course, we already knew that. Well, except for those who are drinking too much blue kool-aid.

Wow. Hadn't expected to hear the argument that the Conservatives are putting the Bloc in power by not shirking their duty as the elected party.

That's a pretty ridiculous line of logic.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by flamey_mcflame

Surprise surprise, Harper got his prorogue and suspended parliament. Should we have expected anything else from this crazy character. To summarize:

a) He brought down a minority Liberal government
b) He brought down his own minority government
c) He brought down his own minority government again for two months

Nothing says economic stability more than our P.M. shutting down parliament so he can have a 2 month holiday to try on sweaters from L.L. Bean. Unbeknownst to our argyle loving friend, Canadians have finally seen through his tired and drawn out charade. The emperor may wear clothes, but he can not hide his bullying, power hungry and childish skin. You have exposed yourself Mr. Prime Minister. Your only option is to to get down on one knee, kiss Iggy's ring and plead for mercy. If our next Canadian leader accepts, then maybe he'll let you run government for a year or two.

And in your new economic update, please make sure to include the elimination of all tax credited donations to political parties. After all, we don't want your campaign to be subsidized by tax payer's dollars. And while you're at it, how about denouncing the terrorists who firebombed signs and ransacked the offices of opposition mp's. I don't want my P.M. supporting terrorism in our own country. Enjoy your paid vacation. Remember, don't wear white pullovers after Labour Day, Sweaters.

Do I detect perhaps a smidgen of hate and bitterness here?
The writer is definitely not a Harper supporter, or I suspect, a supporter of the Conservative Party of Canada, and is perhaps, a little prone to exaggeration, IMHO.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Rick Bell, is that you?

Lots of words, very little substance.

Rick Bell.... LOL.... thats a funny one

I met Rick Bell once, years ago, when he was having a beer at Ogden Pizza. He was probably about 50 lbs heavier than he is now.

The thing that makes me remember meeting him was I had a chance to see his car... It was parked just outside of the bar... a little blue thing... and I knew it had to be his because it was just stuffed full of old Calgary Sun newspapers (there had to be at least 50 of them, all over the place) ... what a mess. The car looked like a garbage can on wheels.

[CaptainCrunch]

There's only one way that this can end up good for the Bloc, the Libs and the NDP. They need to film a commercial where Layton and Dion walk into a darkened bedroom and see Duceppe in an armorous embrace with the province of Quebec. They then burst into tears acuse the Bloc of cheating on them and storm out of the room while tearfully demanding a divorce.

If they made a commercial like that, I'd vote for them.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Do I detect perhaps a smidgen of hate and bitterness here?
The writer is definitely not a Harper supporter, or I suspect, a supporter of the Conservative Party of Canada, and is perhaps, a little prone to exaggeration, IMHO.

Yes and it's only left leaning people that are afflicted with this and certianly on here you know....

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Flame On

Yes and it's only left leaning people that are afflicted with this and certianly on here you know....

Fixed

[calculoso]

Paroguing parliament was a bad idea... they had so many more important things to discuss:

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/WeirdNew...609896-cp.html

Dec 2, 2008
OTTAWA - Parliament may be near a constitutional crisis, but MPs were preoccupied with other pressing issues Tuesday when they met with the House Commons Speaker.

The politicians asked Peter Milliken to investigate the possibility of opening the swank Parliamentary restaurant to the masses.

Opposition MPs said the move, among other benefits, would help end the unfortunate layoff of cooks and kitchen staff during the long summer break.