Coalition Deal To Topple Minority Tory Govt- [Update Parliament Prorogued until Jan]

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Well, at least the Dion-Layton alliance isn't getting power (at least for now); for that I'm relieved.

However, if the situation had been reversed and a minority Liberal government suspended parliament to avoid defeat in a confidence vote, most of the posters in this thread would be screaming bloody murder. I doubt many of you will admit it, but you know it's true.

If the Conservatives were allying themselves with the NDP and Bloc to do more than force an election... namely, get the crazy idea they could govern with those two, I'd be relieved the Liberals stopped them.

[Bertuzzied]

Holy crap. Can Dion suck anymore? I cannot believe the Liberals don't boot him now. 5 months down the road is too long. Which is why Harper needs to go too. If you cannot get a majority govt running against Dion you do not deserve to be in charge.

I think we can all agree this Harper-Dion-Layton-Duceppe lineup is probably the weakest group of politicians in Canadian history. Even worse then Mulroney-Turner-Broadbent.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Of course there are a million what ifs. Anything can happen at any time. Are the Liberals and Socialists more prepared to deal with any of those what ifs than the recently-elected Conservatives are? I haven't seen any proof of that.

Here's another "what if:" What if everyone waited to see what's in the actual budget when it's announced, instead of trying to overthrow a Government that has not yet even had a chance to govern?

What if Harper had been less worried about dealing a further blow to his opponents than appearing to be focused on the country? Would we have even seen a coalition form?
What happens down the road when Harper again shows he can't play nice?
This is fun.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Well, at least the Dion-Layton alliance isn't getting power (at least for now); for that I'm relieved.

However, if the situation had been reversed and a minority Liberal government suspended parliament to avoid defeat in a confidence vote, most of the posters in this thread would be screaming bloody murder. I doubt many of you will admit it, but you know it's true.

Nope, I'd never support a Conservative-Bloc coalition and would turn Liberal fairly quickly.

The reform and conservative parties have sought help from the Bloc in votes to defeat the government before and force and election. But never ever would a conservative party coalish(?) with the bloc to steal power and immediately form government.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Dion

I'd be screaming bloddy murder if it was the Conservatives forming a coalition withe the Bloc

I know you're half joking, but it should be menitoned again that the Bloc is not part of the coalition. They just agreed not to vote against the coalition on matter of confidence.

The Bloc's number one mission is to promote Quebec's interests on a federal level. That does not alway mean sovereignty, and a lot of the time, Quebec's interests are the interests of Canada (same with any province). If Canada suffers, then Quebec suffers. Having them agree in principle with the motives of the coalition is not an agreement with separatists. Back before the Bloc existed, "separatists" used to just join the mainstream parties and work from within - yet political allainces of convenience were still made with those MPs by the Conservatives and Liberals going back decades. It's just now, since 1990, they are lumped into the Bloc and it is easier to point them out.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Yeah, that was pointed out, but I stand by my statement that I think the quality of the recording should not be a concern.

While I agree with you, I don't think a lot of Canadians will.

- As the saying goes, perception is reality. I would wager that the Liberals will be viewed as low quality. "If they are this amateur when addressing the nation...."

- Why don't the Liberals have a "Broadcast Quality" video camera? Have they never had to do this before? Did they sell it to pay for more election signs? Could they not even borrow a camera from their friends at CBC?

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I know you're half joking, but it should be menitoned again that the Bloc is not part of the coalition. They just agreed not to vote against the coalition on matter of confidence.

This is the problem that I think the GG sees. If the Bloc is not part of the coalition, then it's a coalition no better than the current govenment. The Bloc agreed not to vote against the coalition on matters of confidence but what about other issues? Parliament would always be stalled.

If the Bloc officialy signed on, has cabinet members, helps make policy, then the coalition is viable (regardless of whether we agree with it or not).
But just supporting? It's too vague for the GG to accept.

I think the GG views the coalition as a joke. Even if the coalition defeats the government on Jan 27, the GG will simply call an election. If she wanted Dion to govern, she would have let him govern on Monday.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I know you're half joking, but it should be menitoned again that the Bloc is not part of the coalition. They just agreed not to vote against the coalition on matter of confidence.

Seats:
Conservatives > Liberals + NDP
Conservatives < Liberals + NDP + Bloc

Seems pretty simple to me.

[MarchHare]

Back before the Bloc existed, "separatists" used to just join the mainstream parties and work from within - yet political allainces of convenience were still made with those MPs by the Conservatives and Liberals going back decades. It's just now, since 1990, they are lumped into the Bloc and it is easier to point them out.

Correct.

During the 80s, several prominent separatists (such as Lucien Bouchard) were cabinet ministers in Brian Mulroney's Conservative majorities.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Flame On

What if Harper had been less worried about dealing a further blow to his opponents than appearing to be focused on the country? Would we have even seen a coalition form?
What happens down the road when Harper again shows he can't play nice?
This is fun.

Unconstructive, would be more apt.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Flame On

What if Harper had been less worried about dealing a further blow to his opponents than appearing to be focused on the country?

What if people would stop ignoring what IS being done?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I know you're half joking, but it should be menitoned again that the Bloc is not part of the coalition. They just agreed not to vote against the coalition on matter of confidence.

Call it what you want, it's just semantics.

The Bloc is very much a part of this coalition, and they are getting their cut.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by calculoso

So.. since we have the discussions happening (see G20, see Ontario Government/Auto Industry, etc), and if those discussions go no where because they're powerless to implement anything, who's fault is that?

Isn't there more than enough fault to go around? I don't see any of them as faultless. No matter how you want to assign blame, do you honestly believe that Stephen Harper is blameless in this entire issue?

[arloiginla]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Call it what you want, it's just semantics.

The Bloc is very much a part of this coalition, and they are getting their cut.

What is their cut then?

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Call it what you want, it's just semantics.

The Bloc is very much a part of this coalition, and they are getting their cut.

I guess I disagree with you there. There is a distinct line being drawn between how the NDP participate in the coalition, and what the Bloc's role would have been.

I cannot say I blame the Liberals for not wanting to get into the proverbial bed with the Bloc, so with the Bloc being seperate from the coalition makes the previously mentioned point that the CPC still has more seats than the Liberal-NDP coalition.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Isn't there more than enough fault to go around? I don't see any of them as faultless. No matter how you want to assign blame, do you honestly believe that Stephen Harper is blameless in this entire issue?

I think this point is valid, and only the extreme right would disagree. I also think, however, that the reactions do not fit the cause.

If this had been some other inconsequential thing about some other $30 million dollar cut, there would be nowhere near this level of calamity. Unfortunately, it was going to take taxpayer dollars out of Liberal pockets, and Lord knows we can't have absurdities like that going on.

As for the Socialists/Separatists, they were planning this coalition all along. Perhaps they should be the ones that get the most blame. Conservatives were listening to their egos, Liberals were listening to their greed, but I think both parties are being played like fiddles by Layton and Duceppe.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Unconstructive, would be more apt.

How is that less constructive than what you posted?
I was merely pointing out that hypotheticals work both ways.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Correct.

During the 80s, several prominent separatists (such as Lucien Bouchard) were cabinet ministers in Brian Mulroney's Conservative majorities.

And during the late 90's, Captain Canada said: "We won't improve this social union by trying to accommodate the separatists or those who might be tempted to vote for them"

http://www.torontosun.com/comment/co...25001-sun.html

Times change.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by arloiginla

What is their cut then?

Well, they haven't announced any of their funding plans yet... but there's already been reports of an extra 1.3 billion dollars earmarked for Quebec that is mysteriously going to appear out of nowhere once the coalition takes power.

Also...

"I am a sovereignist. This deal is good for Quebec, and what's good for Quebec is good for a Sovereign Quebec." - Gilles Duceppe

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I think this point is valid, and only the extreme right would disagree. I also think, however, that the reactions do not fit the cause.

If this had been some other inconsequential thing about some other $30 million dollar cut, there would be nowhere near this level of calamity. Unfortunately, it was going to take taxpayer dollars out of Liberal pockets, and Lord knows we can't have absurdities like that going on.

As for the Socialists/Separatists, they were planning this coalition all along. Perhaps they should be the ones that get the most blame. Conservatives were listening to their egos, Liberals were listening to their greed, but I think both parties are being played like fiddles by Layton and Duceppe.

I pretty much agree with that assessment, except I don't blame Duceppe. He's just being true to his agenda, and he can't be blamed for that. I totally disagree with his agenda, but I don't fault him for being true to it. The other three however share the guilt, Layton foremost.