Coalition Deal To Topple Minority Tory Govt- [Update Parliament Prorogued until Jan]

[ikaris]

Originally Posted by Jade

Except the reason they don't trust Harper is that he is a conservative. The liberals have been running mostly on their BS hidden agenda campaign for years. 'We just stole a ton of your money, but they have a hidden agenda. Be afraid, we are the only ones you can trust'. To me, the liberals don't want to negotiate because, as they have shown ("It's uncanadian to vote conservative" etc.) the liberals fell they are entitled to run Canada. Unfortunately, in this case, we made the 'poor' choice of electing the conservatives, but don't worry, they've come up with a plan to fix our 'mistake'. I don't think Harper resigning will help, because I think we will hear all of the same 'untrustworthy' comments from the liberals about the next conservative leader too. It's the best argument the liberals have come up with to prevent canadians from voting conservative. And it's working too.

Do you honestly want to compare the economic performance of Canada during the last Liberal era versus the present Conservative era? I don't know about you, but I seemed to have done well and didn't have money "stolen" from me.

It still ceases to amaze me that people think the Liberals are going to steal your money. We all know about the NEP, how long ago was that? It's like Oiler fans going on about their 5 cups.

[HitterD]

Originally Posted by Rerun

I disagree... I believe that if a vote was held now, Harper would get a huge majority. I believe that people are so angry with the Liberals and NDP that they would overlook Harpers flaws just to insure that this "coalition" would not have a chance to do it again if Harper won the next election with only a minority.

I think you might be underestimating the power of Liberal support in Ontario (well...Toronto specifically)

Boy do I hope I'm wrong and you are right though

[Jade]

Originally Posted by Hustle

CTV is reporting that the GG has accepted Harper's request to suspend parliament...

Excellent. Maybe now all the right-leaning liberals can get a chance to hear from their constituents, realize how unpopular this is, and try to stop it.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Hustle

CTV is reporting that the GG has accepted Harper's request to suspend parliament...

Not surprised at all.... in fact, I would have been shocked if she'd done anything else.

Good decision.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by ikaris

If he actually truly believed what he said, then he would resign as that would immediately defuse the crisis. He is no different from any other politician and demands to be in power.

McKay wouldn't be that bad in those shoes I think.

Harper is the one Canadians gave the keys to the country to.

The three idiots backing down and actually working with the government rather than working toward their own aims would defuse the crisis as well, and would be the far superior option.

[ikaris]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

I think the robbing will be less vicious under Harper; I at least have faith that if its the conservatives, their victim won't be beaten bloody and left for dead when its all said and done.

Riiiight. So when you see that the budget presented late January will be the same 30 billion dollar stimulus package (or very close) would you be surprised? Guess where the money will be coming from

Actually the money will be probably borrowed and we'll go into a deficit (same thing if the coalition would be in power).

[Jade]

Originally Posted by ikaris

Do you honestly want to compare the economic performance of Canada during the last Liberal era versus the present Conservative era? I don't know about you, but I seemed to have done well and didn't have money "stolen" from me.

It still ceases to amaze me that people think the Liberals are going to steal your money. We all know about the NEP, how long ago was that? It's like Oiler fans going on about their 5 cups.

I was thinking more the sponsorship scandal, but sure, blame it on the NEP. Everytime the liberals gain power something seems to happen. Until they can put together a long term government that isn't completly corrupt (stealing money, taking power the voters didn't want them to have etc.) I won't trust them. At least I have a reason, unlike those who don't trust the conservatives. I had initially thought Ignatieff might change that, but unless he makes a move against this coalition, he's as bad as the rest of them.

[old-fart]

Originally Posted by Rerun

This would be my wish too... if not for the fact that I really believe that the GG would refuse to disolve parliament and she would allow the coalition a chance to govern.

Going to the GG and asking for the disolution of parliament is a huge gamble and I think the odds are against getting another election.

Prorogue is the safer way to go. Harper will get that and then he will have a chance to introduce a budget that is full of goodies and economic stimulus. Then the opposition will have to make a decision on whether or not to defeat a great budget in order to grab power (they certainly don't want an election) and then go to the GG and say they want a chance at governing Canada.

According to a constitutional lawyer that was just on the radio, the GG HAS to do what the PM recommends. The Queen has apparently already said as much in relation to a similar situation in Australia, and the GG is the Queen's representative in Canada. I honestly don't know, because I'm not a constitutional lawyer, but this guy seemed pretty positive of his stuff. If the PM asks for a prorougue, she has to give it to him. If he asks for dissolution and another election, she has to give it to him. No choice. She can talk, she can debate, but at the end of the day, what the PM requests from the GG, he gets.

His example was extreme... let's say Canada is attacked by a foreign country and the PM needs to declare a state of war. The PM goes to the GG and says 'we need this to mobilize the troops, etc'... the GG can't say "well, let me think about it - maybe ask the other party leaders what they think, and I'll get back to you".

His other example, if the PM asks for a election and it was the wrong thing to do (according to the people of the country) they can punish him at the polls. If the GG says no, I'll let the other guy try, and that is the wrong decision (again, according to the people of the country), there is no accountability to the GG. She (or he) never stands for election, ever.

His basic point was that once there is a PM the GG has to listen to the advice of that PM. To not do so would take us back to a state where the crown (the monarchy) is exerting its will on the country.

If he's right, we'll see a prorouge shortly. Then we'll see a budget at the end January and if this coalition magically manages to hang together that long (not likely) and if they defeat it at that time, we'll go to an election.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by ikaris

Do you honestly want to compare the economic performance of Canada during the last Liberal era versus the present Conservative era? I don't know about you, but I seemed to have done well and didn't have money "stolen" from me.

It still ceases to amaze me that people think the Liberals are going to steal your money. We all know about the NEP, how long ago was that? It's like Oiler fans going on about their 5 cups.

HRDC Boondoggle.
Adscam
Shawinigate
Gun registry
Closing CFB Calgary and moving it into CFB Edmonton to buy votes for Landslide Annie.

We don't need to go back to the NEP for examples of Liberal theft and graft.

[Hustle]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Only thing that she could really do.

I'm looking forward to Dion's and Layton and Duceppes responses.

Should be comedy.

Oh, those responses will be a bucket of laughs.

I expect to hear Layton moan and groan about how this is 'undemocratic' and how the GG shot down the will of the people. Man, I can't stand him.

I do think this is the best solution available right now. I'm not the biggest Harper fan, but this thing was escalating way too quickly. Cooler heads need to prevail and hopefully that happens.

Although its going to be hard to listen to the uber-left wing go off for the next 2 or 3 days.

[Jade]

Originally Posted by ikaris

Riiiight. So when you see that the budget presented late January will be the same 30 billion dollar stimulus package (or very close) would you be surprised? Guess where the money will be coming from

Actually the money will be probably borrowed and we'll go into a deficit (same thing if the coalition would be in power).

True, but at least the problem has been a little more thought out by Harper. See what happens, see where help is needed and be ready to move in quickly if it is. Much better approach than the OMG PANIC THROW MONEY OUT NO TIME TO PLAN MUST ACT FIRST!!!!! the liberals and NDP are trying to convince us is necessary.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by old-fart

According to a constitutional lawyer that was just on the radio, the GG HAS to do what the PM recommends. The Queen has apparently already said as much in relation to a similar situation in Australia, and the GG is the Queen's representative in Canada.

According to the constitutional lawyer on the radio yesterday, the GG could have said no in which case, she also would have had to ask for Harper to resign.

Anyway, it looks like parliament will be suspended. Probably the best thing for Harper, but I am not sure that having no parliament at all during the time is better than a coalition government. Is it in the best interests of the country?

Hopefully cooler heads prevail at the end of January.

[ikaris]

Originally Posted by Jade

I was thinking more the sponsorship scandal, but sure, blame it on the NEP. Everytime the liberals gain power something seems to happen. Until they can put together a long term government that isn't completly corrupt (stealing money, taking power the voters didn't want them to have etc.) I won't trust them. At least I have a reason, unlike those who don't trust the conservatives. I had initially thought Ignatieff might change that, but unless he makes a move against this coalition, he's as bad as the rest of them.

On the flip side, I refuse to trust the Conservatives with a majority government. It really has to do with the Reform party more than anything. Looking back, how many different former Reform MPs can we see that have been quoted with racist remarks, or radical right wing social ideologies? Even recently, you hear the same garbage coming from a certain Calgary MP.

A minority is good because they can be kept in check and you would assume that they would negotiate with other parties (as we've learned, they didn't in their first major confidence vote until after they were threatened with losing their power).

[Dion]

[Dion]

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by ikaris

Riiiight. So when you see that the budget presented late January will be the same 30 billion dollar stimulus package (or very close) would you be surprised? Guess where the money will be coming from

Actually the money will be probably borrowed and we'll go into a deficit (same thing if the coalition would be in power).

For sure they'll be forced to throw together a hasty ill thought out stimulus package just to appease the coalition. And Alberta will be mostly footing the bill. But with the possibility of a Dion/Layton/Duceppe team with the possibility of May in as the environment minister who knows what creative new ways they'll find to screw Alberta to appease their base. It wasn't too long ago that they were talking about carbon taxes and the like to keep the money flowing out of Alberta. Will we see NEP 2.0 new and improved (ie more devastating)?

[ikaris]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

HRDC Boondoggle.
Adscam
Shawinigate
Gun registry
Closing CFB Calgary and moving it into CFB Edmonton to buy votes for Landslide Annie.

We don't need to go back to the NEP for examples of Liberal theft and graft.

Aside from adscam (sponsorship scsndal) the rest was really just incompetence.

We only really need to go back to Mulroney to see Conservative corruption and incompetence. The reason we haven't seen much recently is because they've been held to a minority.

[Smyth's Skate]

Straight from the PM's mouth, the house has been Prorogued until Jan 26, when the first order of business will be the budget. Hopefully, calmer heads prevail and the government can get down to governing instead of these childish games that have been going on.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

According to the constitutional lawyer on the radio yesterday, the GG could have said no in which case, she also would have had to ask for Harper to resign.

Anyway, it looks like parliament will be suspended. Probably the best thing for Harper, but I am not sure that having no parliament at all during the time is better than a coalition government. Is it in the best interests of the country?

Hopefully cooler heads prevail at the end of January.

I'm still wondering how it matters right now? Giving answers at this particular time with no idea of what kind of plan the United States is going to look at seems pretty dangerous.

This also allows the CPC to provide a more detailed idea of what they are thinking for an economic plan.

If the coalition had gone through and we had a new Government on Monday, there still wouldn't be any answers. We'd probably just have a lot of smiles and handshaking, and Quebec rolling around in money, hookers, and blow.

[bigtmac19]

Prorogue!