Coalition Deal To Topple Minority Tory Govt- [Update Parliament Prorogued until Jan]

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by ikaris

If he actually truly believed what he said, then he would resign as that would immediately defuse the crisis. He is no different from any other politician and demands to be in power.

As my representative, I demand he be in power. I would consider myself betrayed if he just slunk home with his tail between his legs.

[malcolmk14]

Does anyone here think that maybe everyone's slightly underestimating Stephen Harper, and he and the CPC have the foresight to know exactly how this will play out.

I see this turning out strongly in Stephen Harper's favour. I think he released that economic update because he knew this would happen, and wanted to flush out the Liberals once and for all.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I honestly think that Harper should let this go to the vote on Monday and disolve parliment. There's no way that the GG is going to grant the coaltion government status when their leader has said that he's going to step down in a few months.

One of the key points in her decision has to be the stability of the countries leadership. And a party thats going through a leadership process while leading does not have stable leadership.

This would be my wish too... if not for the fact that I really believe that the GG would refuse to disolve parliament and she would allow the coalition a chance to govern.

Going to the GG and asking for the disolution of parliament is a huge gamble and I think the odds are against getting another election.

Prorogue is the safer way to go. Harper will get that and then he will have a chance to introduce a budget that is full of goodies and economic stimulus. Then the opposition will have to make a decision on whether or not to defeat a great budget in order to grab power (they certainly don't want an election) and then go to the GG and say they want a chance at governing Canada.

[Mccree]

Originally Posted by ikaris

I posed this question earlier, but no one seemed to bite. How will people react when the Conservatives essentially try to buy Quebec off with money in their upcoming budget? Will it be OK because it's now the blue party giving our money up?

If it is in the actual budget presented and not part of a "Secert deal" then I will be fine with it would not like it but I can accept it

I even think if the Libs/NDP/BLOC presented a "plan" that outlined the entire deal to the public (ie what the BLOC actually gets for their support) then I would be ok with it.

Put it out in the Public.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by ikaris

If he actually truly believed what he said, then he would resign as that would immediately defuse the crisis. He is no different from any other politician and demands to be in power.

McKay wouldn't be that bad in those shoes I think.

Do you honestly think that Harper resigning would put all talk of this coalition to rest? I would be shocked. The Liberals, NDP and most of all the Bloc seem like they just want power.

The most important thing right now with the economy the way it is, is stability. The most stable thing is agreeing to let the government that was elected govern. The next best is letting the party that was elected govern under a new leader.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

Does anyone here think that maybe everyone's slightly underestimating Stephen Harper, and he and the CPC have the foresight to know exactly how this will play out.

I see this turning out strongly in Stephen Harper's favour. I think he released that economic update because he knew this would happen, and wanted to flush out the Liberals once and for all.

I think this has scarred Harper's image to the point where he will never get a majority.

But that is just my opinion.

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't want Harper to resign. Like him or not, the guy is a Leader. Maybe not the best one we've seen, but certainly the best one we have available to us right now.

Yeah, I know. He has an awkward smile and an affinity for sweaters. Everybody has something that people don't like about them.

Totally agree. I just realized the guy has a masters in Economics as well which can't hurt.

He's not perfect, he gives speeches like he's talking to a 3 year old, but he's a heck of a lot better than the anything else available right now.

[ikaris]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

Do you honestly think that Harper resigning would put all talk of this coalition to rest? I would be shocked. The Liberals, NDP and most of all the Bloc seem like they just want power.

I honestly do believe this. Part of the reason the coalition refuses to negotiate is because they have said that they do not trust Harper and will not negotiate with him. Harper resigning would put them in a position to stop this nonsense.

Obviously this wouldn't be the best thing for the Conservative party to do politically.

[Jade]

Originally Posted by Rerun

I think you are being overly optimistic about what effect this will have on the Liberals in the next election.

Your next potential leader, Bob Rae, is involved up to his neck in this. As for your other potential leader, Iggy.... he apparently is beginning to see this deal as a poisoned chalice (as some on the national news put it), and he is backing off in his support (when was the last time you saw Iggy being interviewed on tv and showing his support?). The Liberals will wear this rag for a long time. Come the next election, all you will hear from the the Conservatives is how the Liberals made a backroom secret deal with the socialist NDP and the separtist Bloc to take over the goverment of Canada and this shows you can't trust them.

This deal will be very bad for the Liberals in the long run. They've really shot themselves in the foot.

Yup, this is going to hurt them for a while. Thing is, Bob Rae really doesn't care, because as I understand it, Ontario will never vote for him. Ignatieff has the most to lose in my opinion. He was the only electable liberal candidate, and this may change that. Fact is he supported it at least for a time, and while he may be backing off in support, he certainly hasn't come out against it either. The only chance he has to be elected IMO is to take his name out of the running for party leadership for now, and hope he gets another chance in a couple of years when it's all over. Then again, hiding doesn't really show true leadership. This whole issue seems like the liberals are giving up long term gains for short and very limited power.

[ikaris]

Originally Posted by Mccree

If it is in the actual budget presented and not part of a "Secert deal" then I will be fine with it would not like it but I can accept it

I even think if the Libs/NDP/BLOC presented a "plan" that outlined the entire deal to the public (ie what the BLOC actually gets for their support) then I would be ok with it.

Put it out in the Public.

I posted the accord earlier in this thread. It's pretty clear in it's concessions to BC, Ontario, and Quebec. No secret deals either as many people here seem to speculate.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by ikaris

I honestly do believe this. Part of the reason the coalition refuses to negotiate is because they have said that they do not trust Harper and will not negotiate with him. Harper resigning would put them in a position to stop this nonsense.

Obviously this wouldn't be the best thing for the Conservative party to do politically.

Even if this wasn't a complete 100% power grab on their part and it was more of a trust issue than it appears to be which for the sake of argument lets just say it is. Would the coalition trust the same conservatives with just another face doing the talking?

[Jade]

Originally Posted by ikaris

I honestly do believe this. Part of the reason the coalition refuses to negotiate is because they have said that they do not trust Harper and will not negotiate with him. Harper resigning would put them in a position to stop this nonsense.

Obviously this wouldn't be the best thing for the Conservative party to do politically.

Except the reason they don't trust Harper is that he is a conservative. The liberals have been running mostly on their BS hidden agenda campaign for years. 'We just stole a ton of your money, but they have a hidden agenda. Be afraid, we are the only ones you can trust'. To me, the liberals don't want to negotiate because, as they have shown ("It's uncanadian to vote conservative" etc.) the liberals fell they are entitled to run Canada. Unfortunately, in this case, we made the 'poor' choice of electing the conservatives, but don't worry, they've come up with a plan to fix our 'mistake'. I don't think Harper resigning will help, because I think we will hear all of the same 'untrustworthy' comments from the liberals about the next conservative leader too. It's the best argument the liberals have come up with to prevent canadians from voting conservative. And it's working too.

[malcolmk14]

Ignatieff needs to stand up against this, gather up a dozen liberals, and vote down the non-confidence motion. It's the responsible thing to do. If he wants to be a leader, this is the time to emerge as one.

[ikaris]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

Even if this wasn't a complete 100% power grab on their part and it was more of a trust issue than it appears to be which for the sake of argument lets just say it is. Would the coalition trust the same conservatives with just another face doing the talking?

You'd have assume that they would at least try to negotiate with a different leader. Yes, this is a power grab but frankly, I don't really care anymore because economically, regardless who's in power we're going to get the same garbage budget. Many people here need to realize that Alberta is going to get screwed no matter what.

[Hustle]

CTV is reporting that the GG has accepted Harper's request to suspend parliament...

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by ikaris

I honestly do believe this. Part of the reason the coalition refuses to negotiate is because they have said that they do not trust Harper and will not negotiate with him. Harper resigning would put them in a position to stop this nonsense.

Obviously this wouldn't be the best thing for the Conservative party to do politically.

I can see it now, Harper resigns the coaltion goes to the governer general and say that the Conservatives are in leadership crisis you should appoint our junta.

the only way that Harper resigns is if they effectively lose power after an election.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

I think this has scarred Harper's image to the point where he will never get a majority.

But that is just my opinion.

I disagree... I believe that if a vote was held now, Harper would get a huge majority. I believe that people are so angry with the Liberals and NDP that they would overlook Harpers flaws just to insure that this "coalition" would not have a chance to do it again if Harper won the next election with only a minority.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Hustle

CTV is reporting that the GG has accepted Harper's request to suspend parliament...

Only thing that she could really do.

I'm looking forward to Dion's and Layton and Duceppes responses.

Should be comedy.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by ikaris

You'd have assume that they would at least try to negotiate with a different leader. Yes, this is a power grab but frankly, I don't really care anymore because economically, regardless who's in power we're going to get the same garbage budget. Many people here need to realize that Alberta is going to get screwed no matter what.

After this last week, yes Alberta is screwed no matter what. Basically the coalition has put a gun to the conservatives heads "Buy votes in Quebec and Ontario or we'll do it". They had a choice before. They no longer have that option - someone will rain money down on the east. Where will that money come from? Well, where else CAN it come from?

I think the robbing will be less vicious under Harper; I at least have faith that if its the conservatives, their victim won't be beaten bloody and left for dead when its all said and done.

[atb]

An exclusive Sun Media-Leger Marketing poll finds that if the Tories are toppled in a non-confidence vote, 43% would prefer to return to the polls while 40% would opt for a Liberal-NDP coalition supported by the Bloc Quebecois. Albertans are most staunchly opposed to a coalition, with 71% favouring another election over a Liberal-NDP government. Those in the east and central Canada are more open to a coalition, especially in Quebec where 58% would choose that option over another federal vote. Ontarians are the most deeply divided in the land, with 43% picking an election and 39% preferring a coalition


An new Angus Reid poll suggests the public is divided on the possibility of an opposition coalition throwing the Conservatives out of power.
The poll of 1,000 Canadians shows:

• 35% believe the Conservatives deserve to continue in government; 40% disagree
• If the Tories fall: 37% would allow the opposition to form a coalition government; 32% would hold a new federal election
• 57% are worried about the Bloc Québécois becoming involved in the federal government; 64% would not be comfortable with Stéphane Dion becoming Canada’s Prime Minister
• 53% believe the Tories have not done a good job in dealing with the economic crisis; 75% think the federal government should implement a stimulus package to boost the economy as soon as possible