Coalition Deal To Topple Minority Tory Govt- [Update Parliament Prorogued until Jan]

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by captaincrunch

ladies and gentlemen, i give you the 2009 canaford.

[Slava]

Scott Brison has already said that the Liberals would proceed with the corporate tax cut from 19.5 to 19 percent that is slated for next year.

[C_Rush]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

See you in the re-education camp. Talk like that can get you in big trouble Comrade.

That's OK, we'll tunnel under the fence with a spoon....

Actually, I'd laugh if the situation wasn't so sad. I was actually a NDP supporter and voted for the NDP candidate in my riding. I actually support their socialist programs (for the most part) and thought Jack Layton to be a pretty decent and honourable political leader. But I am absolutely disgusted by these actions, the subverting of democracy, the blatant power grab that speaks of the desperation within the NDP and their leadership. The NDP has lost my vote for this and will not receive it again so long as Layton or anyone with the stink of this political thievery on them remains in leadership.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by C_Rush

That's OK, we'll tunnel under the fence with a spoon....

Actually, I'd laugh if the situation wasn't so sad. I was actually a NDP supporter and voted for the NDP candidate in my riding. I actually support their socialist programs (for the most part) and thought Jack Layton to be a pretty decent and honourable political leader. But I am absolutely disgusted by these actions, the subverting of democracy, the blatant power grab that speaks of the desperation within the NDP and their leadership. The NDP has lost my vote for this and will not receive it again so long as Layton or anyone with the stink of this political thievery on them remains in leadership.

I don't think we'll be issued spoons.

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by octothorp

So let's say, hypothetically, that this coalition takes power, and in May, a new Liberal leader is appointed, who instantly becomes PM. There may be some question whether the liberals are then obligated to call an election to put this new leader's mandate to a federal vote.

But fortunately for the Liberals, Harper has already given them all the moral justification they need to stay in power as long as they can keep their coalition together. How? Via the piss-poor piece of legislation he passed last year regarding fixed election dates. If the Liberals follow the spirit of this law, they shouldn't call an election until October 15, 2012.

Not that I expect this government to last this long: either the coalition will splinter before then, or the Liberals will see an opportunity to grab for more power, and use the same loophole that Harper did.

Unless of course this coalition loses confidence of the House. I have to think, that they already have 143 votes against anything they try to do.

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

Yep, he overplayed his hand and has since backed off. Do you really think that deserves such extreme measures only 6 weeks after he won an election?

IMO, running a little willy nilly and getting called on it does not deserve something so extreme. It deserves a kick in the ass to act appropriately going forwards.

I absolutely think he deserved the threat they're going for. When a minority government oversteps its mandate it can expect to be slapped down. As it happens, I tend to agree with your assessment of what the Conservatives deserve, particularly given the global context this is taking place in.

Originally Posted by transplant99

No they didnt......neither the Cons nor the Bloc (according to the deal) have any power whatsoever.(Larf) once this coup is complete.

Yet...what did they combine for in seats?

It is completely and utterly undemocratic.

They have as much power as they earned in the election. Unless, of course, you really think this coalition is going to be impervious to influence. This is politics my friend, there's always backstabbing even amongst the strangest of bedfellows.

Originally Posted by Jade

I'm sorry, I must have missed the part of the definition of democracy that stated if you were a liberal you didn't have to follow the voters decision. Voters chose to give the Conservatives a minority government. Liberals didn't like it and decided to jump ahead. If 'in a democracy' the liberals get power no matter who we vote for, why do we vote?

The voters decided to give the Liberals sufficient power to allow them to do exactly what they are doing within the confines of our democratic system. If you don't like our form of democracy that's fine, there are all sorts of democratic processes which would work equally well or even better. But your complaint should be directed at the rules of the game, not the players who are playing by those rules.

Anyways, whatever happens, this will be fun to watch. And it makes Canadian politics really interesting for the first time in a long while.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

Unless of course this coalition loses confidence of the House. I have to think, that they already have 143 votes against anything they try to do.

Well, that would be the coalition splintering scenario I talked about. (Although if you count the coalition as simply the NDP and Liberals, the coalition could lose a confidence vote without splintering. I'm counting the Bloc as part of it, though).

[metallicat]

This sham of a news conference is starting. I am ill, looking at those three guys sitting there.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Obviously, as the Liberals and the NDP together don't have enough votes to outvote the conservatives. Everyone has known this since the start of all the coalition talk.

So what this tells me and I think anyone looking at this even at least a bit analytically...

Does this not mean that Duceppe is running the country in this scenario? I mean why would he support ANY legislation that didnt prop up his party' status in Quebec and to do so he would have to tell them what he wanted in order for support. he can basically dictate whatever he wants.

A seperatist...running Canada.

And people laugh at those who have supported them leaving for a long time, or in absence of that, the West seperating from Canada/Quebec.

All of a sudden...not really far-fetched or knee-jerk if you ask me.


Adler just stated he had Bob Rae on last hour and was quoted as saying "no one won the last election". I mean...really? This guy is one of the "economical" geniuses that the coalition has said will be their advisers.

Simply and utterly unbelievable.

[flamesfever]

As polarized as this country is politically, I like to think that Canadians collectively generally do the right thing.

I'm for another election right away, assuming the Conservatives receive a non-confidence vote, instead of this mess the opposition parties are hurriedly cooking up.

IMO, even if the results are the same, the lessons learned would be worth the money. And the country would be spared a lot of divisiveness at a time when everyone should be pulling together in doing what's good for all.

Let's hope the GG sees things the same way.

[metallicat]

English please Dion.

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by moon

Comprosing their own ideas/policies in order to try and backdoor they way into power is seen as strength?

To me it shows how far the Liberals have fallen that they can't hope to win power by elections and now have to resort to compromising their policies and make concessions to two other parties in order to get some of power.

Considering their history that would seem to show that they have no strength at all and wouldn't seem to be very appealling to voters in the future.

Just to spin your argument the other way, and apply it to signs of conservative weakness...

Comprosing their own ideas/policies in order to try and maintain power shouldn't be seen as weakness.

To me it shows how far the Conservatives have fallen that they can't hope to hold power they won through an election because they fail to compromise their policies and make concessions to the other parties in order to maintain their own power.

Considering their history that would seem to show that they have no strength at all and wouldn't seem to be very appealling to voters in the future.

Of course, you could always spin it back again by arguing that now that the Conservatives have compromised, the coalition should show its strength by backing off. In which case we'd come close to common ground I suspect.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Slava

Scott Brison has already said that the Liberals would proceed with the corporate tax cut from 19.5 to 19 percent that is slated for next year.

I think Mr. Brison might be in for a shock. Layton's cronies (according to their campaign site) were very much opposed to all of Martin/Harper's tax cuts, especially those deep corporate ones that he made all those commercials about.

Or, maybe wacky Jack truly is a political "call girl" with no ethics.

[transplant99]

They have as much power as they earned in the election. Unless, of course, you really think this coalition is going to be impervious to influence. This is politics my friend, there's always backstabbing even amongst the strangest of bedfellows

Tell me all the other times that this has happened in Canadian political history. Please.

You know what "power" the Liberals earned? Lowest popular vote in their existance...spin it any way that lets you sleep at night, but to say anything else is completely partisan on your part.

[metallicat]

Dion is flat out lying to us on national TV. You began talks after Harper lost the confidence of parliament? Really? Two days after the election, confidence was lost?

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

Duceppe will have defacto veto power over the coalition according to National Post.

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/b...of-quebec.aspx

How does that sit with everyone? As per the National Post headline this officially makes Canada a colony of Quebec. Not exactly news I guess, but it's probably the part of this whole deal that I have the most trouble with. A separatist party will in effect be controlling the nation's fate. Pretty surreal.

I don't follow this guys logic, and it seems like a huge exageration. No surpising from the Post, but perhaps I'm missing something.
How does this make Canada a colony of Quebec?

[C_Rush]

The thing that sticks in my craw the most about this coalition is the disingenuous nature of them saying this was in response to the Conservatives economic update, when by their own admission this has been in the works for some time. They were simply waiting for an opportunity to ram it through. There was no desire to work together to make Parliament last, they were simply biding their time to pounce.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

I think Mr. Brison might be in for a shock. Layton's cronies (according to their campaign site) were very much opposed to all of Martin/Harper's tax cuts, especially those deep corporate ones that he made all those commercials about.

Or, maybe wacky Jack truly is a political "call girl" with no ethics.

I don't get how the Liberal's can think that they have any kind of mandate to rule this country. They have no seats west of Manitoba, there are very few NDP seats west of Manitoba, there are no bloc seats outside of Quebec.

We're basically going to be ruled by three regional parties, three parties who have openly stated during the election that they're going to go after the Oil and Gas sector.

Guess I need to start printing up the old bumper stickers "Let the Eastern s freeze in the dark"

[rubecube]

I wrote my Liberal MP today to express my outrage. I let him know that I was one of the voters who helped him win re-election by a mere 70 seats and told him that I felt betrayed by the Libs.

[metallicat]

Are you guys hearing this? The Bloc have agreed to keep the government afloat until June 2010. So much for a minority government.