Wear a poppy.

[peter12]

If it was so crappy fighting Germany then why did they volunteer?

I'm still trying to understand this little tid-bit... Maybe you should go ask a veteran why they volunteered.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Magnum PEI

Good one, Ok I Get It! You really fixed my post well, while not actually contributing anything yourself. Your mindless patriotism is how some of these wars started. Look at the two World Wars. If you think Great Britains' (and vicariously, Canada's) motives were altruistic in either war you need to give your head a shake.

In World War II Canada (and we did enter the war separate from Great Britain by the way) was essentially fighting against what we can now recognize in hindsight as a regime which was founded on ideals of hatred and one which ultimately committed atrocities so heinous that words can not do them any justice. How you can argue that we didn't do a greater good is beyond me and more a failing of our educational system and I would suspect your parents than anything else.

Originally Posted by Magnum PEI

I wont even talk about WWI because our entry into that war is so ridiculous it boggles the mind (mostly due to a petty uncle-nephew rivalry, and a naval arms race), but Britain's ness afterwards was truly remarkable and directly led to World War 2.

Yes, World War I was a giant cluster in which Canada as a nation was forged out of battle on a foreign land. World War II and a whole swack of other conflicts has its roots in the Treaty of Versailles, on that you are correct... That being said World War I was much more complicated than a simple rivalry as you make it out to be.

Originally Posted by Magnum PEI

In that conflict we declared war on Germany not because Hitler was killing Jews, but because he invaded Poland. We actually turned boat loads of Jews away from our shores, and what do you think happened to them? Now in hindsight maybe we were on the slightly less evil side, but if you look at the actions of our allies its very debatable. Just wikipedia "war rape" and find out how many rapes were commited by our friends in 1945. And yeah, Canadians liberated Holland, but only because America and Great Britain were to busy carpet bombing every major city in Germany.

Ok... Anti-semetic attitudes were common at the time and I would argue that they still are common within large segments of the population. That being said I highly doubt that anyone had any inkling of an idea as to what would happen to the Jews when they returned to mainland Europe. The SS St. Louis is one of the black marks on our nations, as well as many others, history. However to even compare that to the systemic destruction of the Jews is completely ridiculious and shows your lack of cognitive abilities.

War Rape took place, of course it did, with any group of people you are guarenteed to find one that isn't a great person or who is a bad person and this was especially common in the Russian and German armies in the European Front. That being said because there is someone who you work with who you find out is guilty of a crime... does that tarnish you as a person as well? Does that throw all of your accomplishments into disrepute.

Bombing of German cities took place, of course it did in large part in retaliation for the bombing against British cities, but also to drive the German population who had been subject to propaganda for decades and who believed in the Nazi cause into submission.

Originally Posted by Magnum PEI

Now maybe you people have bought ino the propaganda, but I haven't. The days of the nation-sate are ending and people 200 years from now will laugh at us for sending troops to their death in wars thousands of miles away, in the name of king and country, and then wearing little flowers to "remember the dead". If it was so crappy fighting Germany then why did they volunteer?

I doubt that. I would rather argue that in 200 years their sacrifices will still be admired by the vast majority of the citizens of a country while you will be long forgotten. What these men accomplished is bigger than anything any of us will ever accomplish. They changed the face of history and did so for the better, of that there should be no doubt.

I would like to see a veteran kick you square in the face by the way.

Don't bother responding to this post because you and your "opinions" are on my ignore list.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

In World War II Canada (and we did enter the war separate from Great Britain by the way) was essentially fighting against what we can now recognize in hindsight as a regime which was founded on ideals of hatred and one which ultimately committed atrocities so heinous that words can not do them any justice. How you can argue that we didn't do a greater good is beyond me and more a failing of our educational system and I would suspect your parents than anything else.



Yes, World War I was a giant cluster in which Canada as a nation was forged out of battle on a foreign land. World War II and a whole swack of other conflicts has its roots in the Treaty of Versailles, on that you are correct... That being said World War I was much more complicated than a simple rivalry as you make it out to be.



Ok... Anti-semetic attitudes were common at the time and I would argue that they still are common within large segments of the population. That being said I highly doubt that anyone had any inkling of an idea as to what would happen to the Jews when they returned to mainland Europe. The SS St. Louis is one of the black marks on our nations, as well as many others, history. However to even compare that to the systemic destruction of the Jews is completely ridiculious and shows your lack of cognitive abilities.

War Rape took place, of course it did, with any group of people you are guarenteed to find one that isn't a great person or who is a bad person and this was especially common in the Russian and German armies in the European Front. That being said because there is someone who you work with who you find out is guilty of a crime... does that tarnish you as a person as well? Does that throw all of your accomplishments into disrepute.

Bombing of German cities took place, of course it did in large part in retaliation for the bombing against British cities, but also to drive the German population who had been subject to propaganda for decades and who believed in the Nazi cause into submission.




I doubt that. I would rather argue that in 200 years their sacrifices will still be admired by the vast majority of the citizens of a country.

I would like to see a veteran kick you square in the face by the way.

Don't bother responding to this post because you and your "opinions" are on my ignore list.

I was waiting for someone like you to come along and kick him in the nuts. Great post.

[bigtmac19]

Thanks Mean Mr. Mustard

On behalf of my Dad, a WWII vet, who just had his 86th birthday!

[CaptainCrunch]

Great post Mr Mustard, it saves me the effort of saying the same things with a lot more laughter and four letter words.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Great post Mr Mustard, it saves me the effort of saying the same things with a lot more laughter and four letter words.

I will admit I had to rewrite my post a few times to limit the number of four letter words which would be directed towards him. I must say that the fact he is insulting veterans makes me wonder if he has any idea what the definition courage, conviction and valor is as those are just three of a multitude of words that I would use to describe our veterans.... none of which apply to that fool in the least.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Flash

I used to wear mine on the right side of my jacket, and got some dirty looks and was finally told that I should be wearing it on the left side. I don't see why that should matter, shouldn't the point be that at least I'm wearing a poppy?

Same thing happened to me brother. I mean what the heck, poppy police? Isn't it the fact that you are remembering? Thinking about it? Probably donated some money. Maybe took the time to speak with a veteran and thank them.

But no... gotta wear it on the right, lol.

I mean I do now, but if you've never been told that, how the heck are you even supposed to know?

[metallicat]

I don't think it's all that big a deal, but I've always put it on the left side over top the heart. Same reason people in the US hold their hand over their left side during the national anthem.

[Sainters7]

On somewhat of a sidenote, they're playing Ken Burns' documentary The War right now on PBS. I havent seen it since last year at this time, I forgot how well done it is.

[Magnum PEI]

I don't see how Mr Mustard post is so great. Basically he just acknowledged what I mentioned took place and tried to justify it. How do you justify ruling a quarter of the earth with an iron fist? How do justify killing 100 000 Germans in ONE NIGHT. I would liken fighting for Britain in either war to riding with Mongol Hordes or Roman Legions.

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

The SS St. Louis is one of the black marks on our nations, as well as many others, history. However to even compare that to the systemic destruction of the Jews is completely ridiculious and shows your lack of cognitive abilities.

I never compared these two things. Yes the holocaust was terrible, but it happened after Canada joined the war. And similar events have occured since then and Canada has done squat about it. So don't say troops were fighting against nazi tyranny because they weren't. It might come as a shock to you, but Great Britain has done its share of genocide, or do you think the natives willingly gave us this land? You guys need to put down your tenth grade social studies text books and think for yourselves.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Magnum PEI

I don't see how Mr Mustard post is so great. Basically he just acknowledged what I mentioned took place and tried to justify it. How do you justify ruling a quarter of the earth with an iron fist? How do justify killing 100 000 Germans in ONE NIGHT. I would liken fighting for Britain in either war to riding with Mongol Hordes or Roman Legions.

War is horrible, there is no doubt about that, ask any veteran and they will tell you the exact same thing. Talk to veterans about how they have seen their friend get killed besides them, talk to the families about their brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, aunts, uncles and cousins who went to war and never returned or those who have been changed forever as a result of what they have been through.... they will tell you that war is a horrible, horrible thing. And they won't have to theorize about it as you have done, they have experienced it firsthand. They have lived every day with the horrors of war and how it has impacted their lives.

Now go to a local synagogue and talk to those rescued from death camps. Go to the Netherlands and talk to those who lived under the oppression of a Nazi dictatorship and truly know about a loss of freedom. Talk to the women in Afghanistan who for the first time in a very long time have the opportunity to go to school and receive health care. Evil will always exist in our land and evil doesn't differentiate between nationalities or between race, gender or creed. That being said our veterans and our soldiers are perfect examples that show that good can win out over the forces of evil. War is horrible but war truly is a necessary evil, and I personally take a great deal of pride in the actions of our soldiers overseas as well they may not have all been great men, all of them have accomplished something greater than themselves, and that is something to admire.

Originally Posted by Magnum PEI

I never compared these two things. Yes the holocaust was terrible, but it happened after Canada joined the war. And similar events have occured since then and Canada has done squat about it. So don't say troops were fighting against nazi tyranny because they weren't. It might come as a shock to you, but Great Britain has done its share of genocide, or do you think the natives willingly gave us this land? You guys need to put down your tenth grade social studies text books and think for yourselves.

Are you comparing the holocaust to what happened to natives? Because if you are then that is embarrassing. It was horrible, but nothing compared to the systematic elimination of over six million people. It is a black eye on Canada's history, there is no doubt about that, but how does that fit into a discussion on the appreciation of what veterans have done for us? You seem to be blind to anything positive that has come out of war or the heroics of our men who went off to battle. I urge you more than anyone else to go and talk to a veterans and go and educate yourself, because you are the person who needs it the most, because I truly believe that education is the cure for being a complete f'n moron.

Edit: The Holocaust started long before the first Jew was murdered or the first gas chamber opened up... The first actions of the holocaust can be traced back to 1933, almost 7 years before war was declared... I strongly suggest you pick up that grade 10 social studies book and re-read it, or read it for the first time, you might be shocked at what you find out.

[flip]

Originally Posted by Magnum PEI

I don't see how Mr Mustard post is so great. Basically he just acknowledged what I mentioned took place and tried to justify it. How do you justify ruling a quarter of the earth with an iron fist? How do justify killing 100 000 Germans in ONE NIGHT. I would liken fighting for Britain in either war to riding with Mongol Hordes or Roman Legions.



I never compared these two things. Yes the holocaust was terrible, but it happened after Canada joined the war. And similar events have occured since then and Canada has done squat about it. So don't say troops were fighting against nazi tyranny because they weren't. It might come as a shock to you, but Great Britain has done its share of genocide, or do you think the natives willingly gave us this land? You guys need to put down your tenth grade social studies text books and think for yourselves.

All of the allies faults aside, I don't know if anyone told you but Hitler was an EVIL motherf***er trying to take over the WORLD!

I can justify it pretty quickly when our system of democracy and freedom was under fire, albeit a flawed system. Like Churchill said, democracy is the worst form of government around, except for all the others.

Despite these atrocities that the allied countries have committed at times throughout their histories that does not compare one iota to a crazy ass fascist dictator trying to take over the earth and institute his final solution.

This is why it is ok to kill 100,000 german people in one night. The German people, although some innocent, were guilty of supporting and failing to stop perhaps the most evil mofo ever to live from systematically bringing the world into a war and killing 6 million Jews and another 2 million Polish, Gypsies etc.

How you can defend the Germans is beyond me.

I'm curious, does your ignorance stem from a deep seeded hate for the allies because you are of German descent? Have you been somehow brainwashed to think what the Germans were doing was valiant? Did someone actually manage to convince you that the Allies didn't save the world from a horrible dictator? That they in fact were the horrible power and the Germans are liberators?

Or are you just a hater of Britain and her allies? What do you have against Canada, US, and Britain that you are unable to overlook their shortcomings and say that they were as bad as Germany?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

In World War II Canada (and we did enter the war separate from Great Britain by the way) was essentially fighting against what we can now recognize in hindsight as a regime which was founded on ideals of hatred and one which ultimately committed atrocities so heinous that words can not do them any justice. How you can argue that we didn't do a greater good is beyond me and more a failing of our educational system and I would suspect your parents than anything else.



Yes, World War I was a giant cluster in which Canada as a nation was forged out of battle on a foreign land. World War II and a whole swack of other conflicts has its roots in the Treaty of Versailles, on that you are correct... That being said World War I was much more complicated than a simple rivalry as you make it out to be.



Ok... Anti-semetic attitudes were common at the time and I would argue that they still are common within large segments of the population. That being said I highly doubt that anyone had any inkling of an idea as to what would happen to the Jews when they returned to mainland Europe. The SS St. Louis is one of the black marks on our nations, as well as many others, history. However to even compare that to the systemic destruction of the Jews is completely ridiculious and shows your lack of cognitive abilities.

War Rape took place, of course it did, with any group of people you are guarenteed to find one that isn't a great person or who is a bad person and this was especially common in the Russian and German armies in the European Front. That being said because there is someone who you work with who you find out is guilty of a crime... does that tarnish you as a person as well? Does that throw all of your accomplishments into disrepute.

Bombing of German cities took place, of course it did in large part in retaliation for the bombing against British cities, but also to drive the German population who had been subject to propaganda for decades and who believed in the Nazi cause into submission.




I doubt that. I would rather argue that in 200 years their sacrifices will still be admired by the vast majority of the citizens of a country while you will be long forgotten. What these men accomplished is bigger than anything any of us will ever accomplish. They changed the face of history and did so for the better, of that there should be no doubt.

I would like to see a veteran kick you square in the face by the way.

Don't bother responding to this post because you and your "opinions" are on my ignore list.

Brilliant post MMM!

[Magnum PEI]

Originally Posted by Dion

Brilliant post MMM!

Once again, how is this a good post? I love all the personal attacks too, Mr Mustard. It shows you're thinking with your heart and not your head. But did you have to bring my parents into it? My father actually was a peacekeeper in Cyprus and the Middle East, so you're ironically contradicting yourself.

[Magnum PEI]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Edit: The Holocaust started long before the first Jew was murdered or the first gas chamber opened up... The first actions of the holocaust can be traced back to 1933, almost 7 years before war was declared... I strongly suggest you pick up that grade 10 social studies book and re-read it, or read it for the first time, you might be shocked at what you find out.

Actually, the holocaust didn't start until after Britain and France declared war. Hitler originally planned to deport the Jews to China or Madagascar. War with Britain and France obviously prevented that. Don't forget, most of the Jews killed in the holocaust were from Poland.

[Magnum PEI]

Originally Posted by flip

How you can defend the Germans is beyond me.

I'm curious, does your ignorance stem from a deep seeded hate for the allies because you are of German descent? Have you been somehow brainwashed to think what the Germans were doing was valiant? Did someone actually manage to convince you that the Allies didn't save the world from a horrible dictator? That they in fact were the horrible power and the Germans are liberators?

Or are you just a hater of Britain and her allies? What do you have against Canada, US, and Britain that you are unable to overlook their shortcomings and say that they were as bad as Germany?

I haven't defended the Nazis at all, I'm actually mostly Scottish, and yes in hindsight it was probably good the allies won. My point is that no soldier volunteered in order to save the Jews. They went for numerous reasons-adventure, percieved duty to ones' country, money, etc. But not for the greater good. Any soldier who tells you that is lying.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Magnum PEI

I haven't defended the Nazis at all, I'm actually mostly Scottish, and yes in hindsight it was probably good the allies won. My point is that no soldier volunteered in order to save the Jews. They went for numerous reasons-adventure, percieved duty to ones' country, money, etc. But not for the greater good. Any soldier who tells you that is lying.

Wow...

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Magnum PEI

Actually, the holocaust didn't start until after Britain and France declared war..

Clearly it's their fault?

Hitler originally planned to deport the Jews to China or Madagascar. War with Britain and France obviously prevented that.

Well the original plan was to just take some freedoms, then take their business, then take their homes, THEN take their neighborhoods, THEN put them in ghetto's, THEN THEN THEN put them in work camps etc etc etc etc...

But no, if Britian and France didn't stop Germany's aggression he clearly just would have asked the Jews to leave nicely.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Magnum PEI

and yes in hindsight it was probably good the allies won.

That took hindsight?

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Magnum PEI

I haven't defended the Nazis at all, I'm actually mostly Scottish, and yes in hindsight it was probably good the allies won. My point is that no soldier volunteered in order to save the Jews. They went for numerous reasons-adventure, percieved duty to ones' country, money, etc. But not for the greater good. Any soldier who tells you that is lying.

Incredible.

You are right. You shouldn't wear a poppy.

I'll give you that the reasons for war were complex and even the reasons for enlistment. But to say that no veteran signed up cause they felt it was the right thing to do is one of the most selfish and ignorant things I've heard said on this board.

Many wanted to protect Canada, many wanted to protect the world and our allies. I doubt ANY did it for money. Soldiers don't make that much.

Shoot I know people who signed up for the Afghan war because they saw how the Taliban treated their women and their people. And that had nothing to do with Canada.

Just because you can't think of anyone but yourself doesn't mean others can't.

Disgraceful.