Tipping Etiquite [Split from the Money & Friends Thread]

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by gottabekd

So...who brings you the food?

(And I'm too lazy to search, but there are plenty of examples of what you describe. I think one had some sort of automated conveyor belt that delivers food. In Europe or something)

I know this isn't for all cases, but the waiters/waitresses don't bring you the food, they just take your order. Runners are the ones that bring you your food.

[V]

Originally Posted by jammies

It's weird how so many people here are against tipping, yet I've never been to a restaurant in Calgary where tips aren't allowed because the waitstaff is already getting paid fairly.

There are two conclusions one can take from this:

1) If you owned your own restaurant, you'd be the first to put your principles into practice, and history would be changed thenceforth, as an avalanche of customers would descend upon your trend-setting establishment.

2) You actually don't like tipping because you are cheap, and are making up post-facto reasons so as not to appear so.

Actually, I've been in a few very nice restaurants that had the gratuity built into the prices. I left no tip, as instructed on the menu. And the service was fantastic.

[nickerjones]

just a lil ancedote about a tipping...

2 weeks ago my dad ( my boss as well) took me out for lunch to the local Buffalo wild wings that we eat alot. We had a ditzy waitress who even forgot to put our order in and when she came to refill our drink 25 min later she said "ok can i take your order now ?" We told her we already ordered and she said "oh yeah here it is right on my pad. ill put it in now" didnt even apologize

So we wait another 20 min for our food and guess what she got me boned wings instead of boneless and spun in the wrong sauce. I asked and she said it will be another 20 min if i take them back.

SO we are pretty mad and to top it off the bill is like 23.30 or something and my dad pays with a 100 bill. She just brings us back 76 bucks and no change. So my dad sat there for a while waiting for her to bring the change. She never did so he just gets up and walks out and says oh well......

So i go back with some buddies a couple days later and she confronts me about not tipping her

I was pretty flabbergasted

[OzSome]

I used to work in a service industry so whenever I go to a restaurant, I tend to tip well over 20% no matter how good or terrible service was. I think that was a bad thing because if the service was bad and I still tip well, then I am telling the wait staff you don't have to work hard when you are serving me. These days it is very rare to have good service in the restaurant.

When I was in the industry, i feel bad when someone leave a good tip even though I did not do a good job. It was not because I wasn't trying and it was because i was busy working by myself in a full room.

If the service is good, 20% or more is the norm. If it ios average then 15% should be sufficient enough. If it's crappy and the service is just standing around doing nothing, then a customer shouldn't even leave anything or a penny is good. Leaving a penny to a server is actually an insult to the server. It says that service is crap. If the service is bad because the server is very busy, it should be up to you. Do you blame the server or the management?

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Well I just accept that for what it is, but I don't take that assumption to gas pump jockeys (I pump my own gas anyways), pizza pick up (sorry no tip) and as I said, tip the 10/15/20% depending.

But the idea to tip so that poor kids can have cars and go drinking on friday nights seems sort of dumb to me. I just can't understand a 16-17 year old demanding (not getting paid, but feeling an entitlement) to $30 a hr no matter what the situation is. If you get it for doing something, great, but don't see it as an entitlement. For instance, for me / my ex-gf, we both marked for the local community collage while doing our undergraduate university degree and we were making an avg $30-40 per hr. Didn't demand it, just what the salary was. The one thing that really bothered me is when we were dating (and after, sort of a long story) she felt this entitlement that she should get more then $120 in a night of tips, and would be all pissy and bitchy if she didn't get that - why? Because thats the expectation/entitlement they feel they deserve, in tips. Thats $30 a hr in tips, tax-free. For the few (semi-ish) customer service jobs I worked (ushering, parking attendent) when I was in HS, I got paid min wage ($5.75 per hr, later on $5.90 per hr) and probably got just as much bitching/moaning, did have beer spashed/spilled on me a few times and never felt an entitlement to a tip nor ever got one either - so from my POV, I just can't understand how they can be so whiny and say its such a terrible job. If its so bad, quit, find a different job. You're getting paid approx $30 per hr, tax-free, just feel glad that you are making a killing and I'll just keep following the standard tipping so my food I'm getting served doesn't get tampered.

Fact is if people want decent service at all the food industry will need to attract people. They will do this by paying them a certain amount - either with tips, or by upping salaries/hourly rate. Ultimately we are going to pay on way or the other.

The alternative is cutting out tips, keeping wages down and then we can all have the pleasure of being served by a 15 year old pimply kid who can't remember anything, doesn't give a rat's rear end about his job, and makes the experience of going to a resteraunt less enjoyable.

Folks seem to be letting a couple bad experiences with whiney waiters who feel entitled spoil the whole lot. Most servers I know are hard working people, who take pride in what they do. They are paid what the market sets for their services, like anything else. And yes - that does include tips.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

But most people aren't against tipping. They're against tipping for crappy service. I know for me, I always tip, but sometimes its purely out of guilt and to not look cheap, and not because I had good service. Even crappy service gets some kind of tip from me.
.

And that's all valid. When I get crappy service I first evaluate why it is - I look around to see how many tables my waiter is having to deal with. I don't think they should be penalized for the joint being under-staffed. But if it's crappy service just because it's crappy service, I tend to leave a bad tip and will even write a note explaining why.

I also don't like being prompted to tip when it's not appropriate. E.g. there are some fast food places where when you pay with debit you get prompted with "Tip yes/no" on the Interact machine. Lame.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by OzSome

When I was in the industry, i feel bad when someone leave a good tip even though I did not do a good job. It was not because I wasn't trying and it was because i was busy working by myself in a full room.

I won't speak for anyone else but i recognize the difference between a server whose got a busy room and someone whose just plain lazy and tip accordingly. i'm not gonna dock someone whose busting their butt because someone called in sick and they're short staffed or something.

For example lunch the other day, i took the boys out and we were one of 2 tables this one chick had to take care of, yet somehow she still managed to disappear for 15 minutes at a time on a couple occasions and our lunch took over a hour because of it.

I was pretty pissed cause time spent sitting in a restuarant is time not making money at work.

[nickerjones]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

And that's all valid. When I get crappy service I first evaluate why it is - I look around to see how many tables my waiter is having to deal with. I don't think they should be penalized for the joint being under-staffed. But if it's crappy service just because it's crappy service, I tend to leave a bad tip and will even write a note explaining why.

I also don't like being prompted to tip when it's not appropriate. E.g. there are some fast food places where when you pay with debit you get prompted with "Tip yes/no" on the Interact machine. Lame.

fast rood restraunt tips??? i have never ever seen that...... but i hate when the receipt is printed and at the bottomg there is a 10, 15 , 20, and 25 percent tipping scale. I dont know why that irritates me but it does. i usually tip very well and when i get this i used to always ( unless the service was incredible) tip 10% and i leave a note saying it offends me that you are expecting me to tip and have the audacity to give me tipping guidelines.

Althought this was in branson missouri and during off season since i was a local i asked why they did it . Our server responded that in the busy season they served a lot of old people and before they put the guidelines on there alot of these people would leave a buck or a buck and some change on 60 dollar tabs or so . They decided it was because they were old and didnt realize any better so they put the %s on there and the bigger ( regular %) tips have followed suit .

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by nickerjones

fast rood restraunt tips??? i have never ever seen that...... .

Not chains but I'm finding it at a lot of stand alone fastfood places.

[nickerjones]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Not chains but I'm finding it at a lot of stand alone fastfood places.

hmmm wierd so places like peters?? how do they expect a tip when all they do it take a order , turn around put it in a bag and hand it to you???

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by nickerjones

hmmm wierd so places like peters?? how do they expect a tip when all they do it take a order , turn around put it in a bag and hand it to you???

Not Peter's because of course they don't even have electronic tills, let alone debit. But yeah places like that.

Willy's Burgers on 32nd for one.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

But most people aren't against tipping. They're against tipping for crappy service. I know for me, I always tip, but sometimes its purely out of guilt and to not look cheap, and not because I had good service. Even crappy service gets some kind of tip from me.

People that are against tipping for crappy service aren't who I'm talking about, I'm talking about the people who are against tipping altogether. Some are quite blunt about it, others simply resent the expectation and give the minimum they feel they can without inviting too much censure - not because they aren't just as cheap, just that they lack the courage to be *blatantly* cheap.

Tipping is a custom here in Canada and the US. Waitstaff depend on that custom to make a reasonable wage. Therefore, if you choose to flout the custom, you are directly affecting someone's ability to make a decent wage.

Arguments that the custom is arbitrary are entirely beside the point - it is BECAUSE it is arbitrary that it is a custom, not a world-wide phenomenon. Yakety-yak about how the retail workers or bottlepickers of the world don't get tipped is entirely beside the point - they got the short end of the custom-stick, no doubt, but not tipping at a restaurant isn't going to help that situation out, is it? As customs go, tipping is not morally reprehensible, disgusting, or particularly onerous, so it follows that while in Canada, do as the Canadians do, and tip your servers! (preferably without belly-aching about it).

Other types of service industries are less clear-cut; I always tip the pizza delivery guy, cabbies, barbers and bellhops, but I never tip when I go to pick up food. Those situations are hard to put in unquestionable cultural context; realistically, though, if you have never tipped any of the preceding four job-types, you probably either don't or hate tipping waitstaff too, and you probably are, shall we say, "careful with your money."

[wittynickname]

I guess I'm just the type who has seen what that 2-3 extra dollars can mean sometimes. I was working a job where tips weren't at ALL expected--working as a cashier/barista at a cafe/bistro/bakery type place, and there were a few customers who would STILL always give you a dollar or two--it wasn't much, but I was saving up to go back to school, and so that few dollars meant my lunch for the day was covered.

So I always tip, and I tip well--if I get crappy service, the server gets a basic 10-15% tip, but a lengthy note explaining why the service sucked, and if it's bad enough, a mention to the manager about how bad it was.

And the whole "If you hate it just don't take the job" argument is so ridiculous--if you're living in a town with limited employment opportunities or if you need a schedule that's odd hours or something like that--you take what you can get, period.

[GGG]

I tip begrudingly, 5% crappy, 10 average, 15% good. The crappy service is based on making sure I cover tip out. Judging from comments on this board I would be considered cheap but I also tip unconventionally. Today I tipped the girl at Subway because she did a fantastic job above and beyond what I expect. The girl was shocked and very apprecitive. i doubt it was about money but more about appreciation for her work.

I realize I don't like tipping because it is such a one way activity. I tip after I have been served and am leaving so I never really get to see any kind of appreciation for a tip. If a tip has become so expected that there is no appreciation when in happens I think it has lost all meaning and should just be included in the bill to make everyone's life easier.

If you don't understand what I mean try tipping someone tomorrow who likely would never get a tip. I have always found them to be much more excited about getting it. Try the convenience store clerk when you go in drunk this weekend to buy 7wings.

[moon]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Folks seem to be letting a couple bad experiences with whiney waiters who feel entitled spoil the whole lot. Most servers I know are hard working people, who take pride in what they do. They are paid what the market sets for their services, like anything else. And yes - that does include tips.

Personally I am against tipping and I think it has a lot to do with the fact that I have the opposite experience.

I find most waitresses that whine constantly about how little tips they get while counting out the 100's of dollars that they just made for a few hours of work. It might just be the people that I know but I would rank waitresses right up there as the whinniest, most spoiled and selfish profession out there.

For example, there is a dude in this thread that thinks it is harder work than laying carpet?? I mean come on, there is no way it is close.

I don't get the whole tipping ensures good service argument either that some people have. Wouldn't bad service=getting fired be enough of an incentive to do a good job? It seems to work in 100% of the other 1,000's of professions in the world.

For me the biggest thing that I have about tipping is that I don't see what waiters/waitresses do more than any other jobs such that they deserve tips. If they don't like minimum wage that the jobs offer, don't take the job. It seems pretty simple to me. It isn't like people are forcing them to be waitresses.

Although my anti-tipping feelings have gone down quite a bit since I stopped going to the bar. Those places are by far filled with the biggest morons expecting the biggest tips for doing absolutely nothing at all. Unfortunately, since the patrons are all gooned up and have no idea what they are doing these dopes get away with charging you money just to get them to do their job or even get you to do their job for them!

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

What a pathetic thing to say.

I hope you pay your single mother secretary well, so she doesn't need tips.

I know exactly what electricians make, and so he does not need tips.

Save your Uncle being mentally ill, and based on your description, he needs to get a life.

Seriously bro, that last post was just so naive and plain wrong that it is almost hysterical. Pizza guy and bar-girl/tender make minimum wage. Right or wrong that is the reality of the situation.

If you can afford to pay a single mother a salary AND sleep at night feeling good about yourself then you an afford to be generous to those who go the extra-mile for you.

In the case of the pizza guy, I don't understand how you could show up and see him working by himself doing the work of four people and not feel that IS the extra mile? I mean, anyone who doesn't deserve your tip would have quit/not worked there at all given those circumstances. Who is going to make your Pizza then?

Also, next time you're out at the bar having a great time and realize you haven't had to wait for drinks or chase down your girl also realize she is making minimum wage and still making sure your night is great. Tipping is the custom for showing appreciation for this.

So right. Perfect contrast to the BS this post replied to.

What's up, V? Are you choked that your line of work or your uncle's line of work doesn't garner any tips? You can always switch industries. I hear they're hiring waiters en masse.
Sarcasm aside, I can't believe the pure disdain you have for people that get tips. If you don't want to tip, then don't. It's an optional thing. Sure, you're a cheap bugger for not tipping if the service is good, but still, it's your prerogative.

[Phanuthier]

I guess my problem with tipping is the following:

• Waiters / waitresses, in my experiance, have to be the whinest profession out there, walking out with $120+ (tax free) + salary. Some nights, my ex-gf would walk out with up to $220 in a night (thats $45 an hr for anyone keeping score, again tax free, before salary) and still be bitchy about a table who tipped 10% that night - even though some tables would be dropping her a $100 tip. Not to mention the constant whining about how hard their line of work is, oh no they get complaints... I bet none of us have ever had that in our profession. My ex-gf used to say the waitressing is the 2nd most demeaning job behind stripping - um, excuse me?
• The amount of money expected they make in a night. Again, lets take the pizza example, $25 a pizza. About $5 of ingredients, and the other $20 should be for someone making the damn thing. What do they think the $20 is for? Its for someone making your pizza at their kitchen. (So on a separate issue, I don't see why you should tip a guy for making it for you ontop, take it up with the manager.) So lets say a couple friends, 6 friends, rings up a tab of about $90 - to me, what do you think the waitress should get for bringing out food and drinks and occationally asking "is everything ok?" conviniently when your mouth is full? $10 seems pretty decent to me, but wait, thats a 9% tip which is supposed to suck. (a round $100) What is expected is $20 - for asking you what kind of pizza you want and what you want to drink, and bringing it to your party of 6. We're not talking about $1-2, thats fine, we're talking about $20. Now in a night, a server might work 5 tables, and do 2 rounds. We're now looking at tips in the $180-220 range (depending on restraunt) which works out to some $45-55 an hr... again, tax free. Bartenders make an absolute slaughtering, some I know will rack up over $400 in a night - thats like $70 an hr, before tax. So, if you are making that, good for you for doing well for yourself and be grateful. I think its flawed, but thats not the only one thats flawed, so be happy with what you have and don't fall into bullet 1.

Now if we're talking about tips+salary = $15-20, I'd think thats a reasonable range to be in.

So yeah, I do think the system is flawed. My biggest problem is the guy's that whine that its harder then carpetting floors or whatever, and feel that they are obligated at least 15%, and one's that start to think tipping should be 30-40% (my waitressing friends).

But otherwise, yeah I'll tip 15% just cause I'm expected to. I don't see what's cheap about it, I'm doing what I'm supposed to do. Who cares what the intention is. (Usually turns out to be a $10 tip anyways, if I'm out on a date.) I barely even give it a thought unless I'm asked, as to which I'll tell them what I think (see: buillet 2). If I'm having a good time (ie. my former drinking hole in Edmonton) then I drop 20-30% just cause the waitresses and bartenders are being great to me, and I 20-30% is usually what rounds out to an even bill for me and I don't have any hard feelings about rounding out the bill to 20-30%.

[Ryan Coke]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

And the whole "If you hate it just don't take the job" argument is so ridiculous--if you're living in a town with limited employment opportunities or if you need a schedule that's odd hours or something like that--you take what you can get, period.

To be clear, it is a ridiculous argument, but no more so than saying 'if you don't tip XX% then don't bother eating out'. The tip is NOT a requirement at the vast majority of restaurants (it is not listed on the menu or on the bill), so if a) the service was poor, a person has every right to tip (or not) as they see fit, or b) if the person eating out is worse off financially than the server, then they are still permitted to eat out, are they not?

We all go out knowing the expectation to tip, and all servers know that it is not a requirement to tip, so I hope we can agree that for you to assert that people shouldn't go if they won't tip what you see fit is as ridiculous as me saying if you can't handle some people not tipping 'enough' then you should find another job.

Like I said, we can all justify why we deserve more money.

[4X4]

Phanutier, regarding the amount of money your ex made, just for a minute, put that into terms that us guys can figure out. A man can go to work in a profession or a trade and make $20 or $25 or $30 or $50 or (in troutman's case) $900 per hour. For a nice, solid 8 hours.
We go to work, we make our salary or our hourly wage (for 8 hours or more) and collect a paycheque on the 15th and the 30th. Wait staff don't. If they're lucky (read: good) they get a friday or saturday night when it's busy for 8 hours straight and then they get their $200 in tips plus wage. Guess what they earn on a tuesday night?

I don't even know why I've waded back in on this ###### fest. If any of you non tippers actually think that these people are going home with $220 every night, why the hell aren't you in on that action? Because you know that they only make that kind of cash one or two NIGHTS per week. In other words, they have to work crappy, dead shifts the rest of the week and then forfeit their weekends to make decent coin a couple of nights. To serve whiners like half the people in this thread their drinks while they comment on their asses.
Seriously, guys. Walk a mile in someone else's shoes.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

Also, next time you're out at the bar having a great time and realize you haven't had to wait for drinks or chase down your girl also realize she is making minimum wage and still making sure your night is great. Tipping is the custom for showing appreciation for this.

If any of this actually happened perhaps people wouldn't have such a hard time with tipping.

I know that you are in the industry so are going to paint servers as being the hardest people in the world but from my experience (and when it comes to bars they are pretty vast experiences) this couldn't be further from the truth and it certainly is nowhere near to being one of the tougher jobs out there.