Tipping Etiquite [Split from the Money & Friends Thread]

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

When you are 15-16, what exactly do you do that you need so much money?

Back then i needed to put money away for my post secondary education. I didn't have the grades to get a scholarship and my parents at the time couldn't afford to pay for it either.

I also needed to save for a car and the insurance that goes with it. Parents couldn't afford to buy me one.

That's a reality for countless teens.

[wittynickname]

While I agree that the tipping system is flawed--all of those people who are saying employers should just pay their servers/bartenders/whatever more, rather than relying on tipping--you realize that those employers would just charge YOU more for the food/drinks/whatever, right?

You're going to get the money taken from your pocket, one way or another. If you don't want to pay, and tip, stay home and make your own meals/drinks/etc.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by V

I hope your kid's half as whiny as his dad is. Geez.

I get the strange urge to ask every employee of every business what their life story is, and rate just how hard their job is, to determine whether or not they should be tipped.

My assistant is a single mother. And she has to deal with me. Rough circumstances and a crappy job. I should probably tip her every day for doing her job well without complaining.

My brother's trying to get by as an electrician apprentice. He works his arse off and is trying to make enough money to get married and not start off too far behind. Maybe he just gets a little tip.

My uncle is on and off the streets. He doesn't work often, but when he does it's the kind of job that you wouldn't be caught dead doing. He should make a fortune in tips.

What a pathetic thing to say.

I hope you pay your single mother secretary well, so she doesn't need tips.

I know exactly what electricians make, and so he does not need tips.

Save your Uncle being mentally ill, and based on your description, he needs to get a life.

Seriously bro, that last post was just so naive and plain wrong that it is almost hysterical. Pizza guy and bar-girl/tender make minimum wage. Right or wrong that is the reality of the situation.

If you can afford to pay a single mother a salary AND sleep at night feeling good about yourself then you an afford to be generous to those who go the extra-mile for you.

In the case of the pizza guy, I don't understand how you could show up and see him working by himself doing the work of four people and not feel that IS the extra mile? I mean, anyone who doesn't deserve your tip would have quit/not worked there at all given those circumstances. Who is going to make your Pizza then?

Also, next time you're out at the bar having a great time and realize you haven't had to wait for drinks or chase down your girl also realize she is making minimum wage and still making sure your night is great. Tipping is the custom for showing appreciation for this.

[Ryan Coke]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

If you don't want to pay, and tip, stay home and make your own meals/drinks/etc.

I could just as easily say if you don't like the wage, then don't take the job.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Ryan Coke

I could just as easily say if you don't like the wage, then don't take the job.

The wage includes tips. The system right now is such that employees get their wage and their tips. So if someone is taking the job they are doing it based on the assumption that 90% of customers are going to be providing a tip.

Now if you want to lobby to have that changed - go ahead. But until it is changed, waiters are taking the job with a realistic assumption of getting a wage+tips.

[flip]

Originally Posted by Ryan Coke

I could just as easily say if you don't like the wage, then don't take the job.

Unfortunately it doesn't work that way because the low wage is predicated on the fact that they will be making tips. No tips means they are making far less than they should be.

I'm not going to lie my tipping varies. I tip pizza guys pretty good, cabbies pretty good too. They have the crappiest jobs IMO. Waitress is OK if you're working at a nice place or decent pub. For me the tip dictates the service. My hairdresser always does a phenomenal job (and i get a pretty sweet discount) so I always tip quite a bit. I intentionally don't tip at places or for people who guilt me into tipping them (ie the cover charge girls at a bar/strip club) what the hell have they done to deserve a tip? Charge me money? I don't tip the cashier at my local Rexall.

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

What a pathetic thing to say.

I hope you pay your single mother secretary well, so she doesn't need tips.

I know exactly what electricians make, and so he does not need tips.

Save your Uncle being mentally ill, and based on your description, he needs to get a life.

Seriously bro, that last post was just so naive and plain wrong that it is almost hysterical. Pizza guy and bar-girl/tender make minimum wage. Right or wrong that is the reality of the situation.

umm not in calgary they dont, not unless they cant negotiate worth crap. this is getting silly... if you're working as a pizza guy behind the counter and not happy with no tips then go work as a waiter, if you dont like being a waiter cuz customers a rude and you're not happy with tips then there are jobs at any fast food place, safeway, coop all paying $12/hour to start with raises after a few months. if thats not enough for you then work as a waiter, take your tips and suck it up. No one is entitled to a tip, its for service ABOVE AND BEYOND not just for doing their regular job.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

While I agree that the tipping system is flawed--all of those people who are saying employers should just pay their servers/bartenders/whatever more, rather than relying on tipping--you realize that those employers would just charge YOU more for the food/drinks/whatever, right?

You're going to get the money taken from your pocket, one way or another. If you don't want to pay, and tip, stay home and make your own meals/drinks/etc.

This is my precise argument every single time someone tells me that they shouldn't have to tip. You get charged 15 bucks for your plate of food under the assumption you will tip if you get good service. If you'd rather the employer pay, say 12/hour to their servers, then your plate of food might now cost 17.50.

However, now you have no ability to control how much you tip based on the service, and the incentive for the server to do an exceptional job is now lost.

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

This is my precise argument every single time someone tells me that they shouldn't have to tip. You get charged 15 bucks for your plate of food under the assumption you will tip if you get good service. If you'd rather the employer pay, say 12/hour to their servers, then your plate of food might now cost 17.50.

However, now you have no ability to control how much you tip based on the service, and the incentive for the server to do an exceptional job is now lost.

which is why I have no problem with tipping for good service but its gotten to the point now that 10-15% is expected for crappy-mediocre service, they should get 5 at most and I scale up to about 30 from there. Of course laziness is a factor also, we've left $40 on $23 bills just because we only had 20's and didnt want change, this was of course where we were regulars at the time.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by Swarly

umm not in calgary they dont, not unless they cant negotiate worth crap. this is getting silly... if you're working as a pizza guy behind the counter and not happy with no tips then go work as a waiter, if you dont like being a waiter cuz customers a rude and you're not happy with tips then there are jobs at any fast food place, safeway, coop all paying $12/hour to start with raises after a few months. if thats not enough for you then work as a waiter, take your tips and suck it up. No one is entitled to a tip, its for service ABOVE AND BEYOND not just for doing their regular job.

Nice grammar. How old are you?

Did you even read my post? I love how you capitalized ABOVE AND BEYOND when if you had in fact read my post (and managed to actually understand it also it would seem) you would know that your last sentence is exactly the spirit of my last post. The two examples I gave are of the type that you just spoke of.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

Nice grammar. How old are you?

Did you even read my post? I love how you capitalized ABOVE AND BEYOND when if you had in fact read my post (and managed to actually understand it also it would seem) you would know that your last sentence is exactly the spirit of my last post. The two examples I gave are of the type that you just spoke of.

lol I love that picture.

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

Nice grammar. How old are you?

Did you even read my post? I love how you capitalized ABOVE AND BEYOND when if you had in fact read my post (and managed to actually understand it also it would seem) you would know that your last sentence is exactly the spirit of my last post. The two examples I gave are of the type that you just spoke of.

no i kind of stopped reading your post after you made that dumb comment about making min wage in calgary and calling another CP's uncle who's down on his luck a loser who needs to get a life, did I get that right? how old are you? my grammer was sloppy because i was in a hurry whats your excuse for being ignorant?

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

The wage includes tips. The system right now is such that employees get their wage and their tips. So if someone is taking the job they are doing it based on the assumption that 90% of customers are going to be providing a tip.

Now if you want to lobby to have that changed - go ahead. But until it is changed, waiters are taking the job with a realistic assumption of getting a wage+tips.

Well I just accept that for what it is, but I don't take that assumption to gas pump jockeys (I pump my own gas anyways), pizza pick up (sorry no tip) and as I said, tip the 10/15/20% depending.

But the idea to tip so that poor kids can have cars and go drinking on friday nights seems sort of dumb to me. I just can't understand a 16-17 year old demanding (not getting paid, but feeling an entitlement) to $30 a hr no matter what the situation is. If you get it for doing something, great, but don't see it as an entitlement. For instance, for me / my ex-gf, we both marked for the local community collage while doing our undergraduate university degree and we were making an avg $30-40 per hr. Didn't demand it, just what the salary was. The one thing that really bothered me is when we were dating (and after, sort of a long story) she felt this entitlement that she should get more then $120 in a night of tips, and would be all pissy and bitchy if she didn't get that - why? Because thats the expectation/entitlement they feel they deserve, in tips. Thats $30 a hr in tips, tax-free. For the few (semi-ish) customer service jobs I worked (ushering, parking attendent) when I was in HS, I got paid min wage ($5.75 per hr, later on $5.90 per hr) and probably got just as much bitching/moaning, did have beer spashed/spilled on me a few times and never felt an entitlement to a tip nor ever got one either - so from my POV, I just can't understand how they can be so whiny and say its such a terrible job. If its so bad, quit, find a different job. You're getting paid approx $30 per hr, tax-free, just feel glad that you are making a killing and I'll just keep following the standard tipping so my food I'm getting served doesn't get tampered.

[ricosuave]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

In the case of the pizza guy, I don't understand how you could show up and see him working by himself doing the work of four people and not feel that IS the extra mile?

Also, next time you're out at the bar having a great time and realize you haven't had to wait for drinks or chase down your girl also realize she is making minimum wage and still making sure your night is great. Tipping is the custom for showing appreciation for this.

And I think most people's problems lie in the fact that the pizza has the wrong toppings, is undercooked, is late, that the drinks do not come in a timely manner, and instead of making sure the night is great, its poor because he/she doesnt give a rats ass about the indifferent service...

Tip when the service is good, when it isn't why should you?

Poor service AND a demand for tips for it, is the norm now.

[jammies]

It's weird how so many people here are against tipping, yet I've never been to a restaurant in Calgary where tips aren't allowed because the waitstaff is already getting paid fairly.

There are two conclusions one can take from this:

1) If you owned your own restaurant, you'd be the first to put your principles into practice, and history would be changed thenceforth, as an avalanche of customers would descend upon your trend-setting establishment.

2) You actually don't like tipping because you are cheap, and are making up post-facto reasons so as not to appear so.

There might actually be a couple #1s in this thread. We can only hope you decide the life of the restauranteur is for you.

Edit - there are plenty of #2s that already own bars and restaurants, they like the idea of tipping for other people as it saves them money on paying their staff. The hypocrisy of this, of course, is irrelevant to them.

[V]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

What a pathetic thing to say.

I hope you pay your single mother secretary well, so she doesn't need tips.

I know exactly what electricians make, and so he does not need
tips.

Save your Uncle being mentally ill, and based on your description, he needs to get a life.

What an awesome post. Where to start??

Your entire premise thus far has been two-fold. Folks in the service industry (well, apparently pre-defined portions of the service area, at least) deserve tips because a) they have to work really, really hard and b) the average server comes from really ty circumstances.

However, my assistant that's in kind of a crappy circumstance, and has to work really really hard (she does work for a hard-a$$ after all) apparently deserves to be paid well so that she doesn't need tips. I'm confused.

And you're able to determine that a first year electrician apprentice makes enough that he can comfortably get a good start on married life. BTW, could you let me know where that abitrary upper bar is? I need to know so that I can ask my waitress each night whether or not she's met her quota yet. You know, I wouldn't want to tip if she's already made enough that night.

And then the clincher. Actually, I'll leave it alone. We don't need Jiri to start a whole new thread to deal with the inevitable post after post dealing with your incredibly offensive view of the homeless. Just curious, though, where exactly is that arbitrary lower bar which transitions someone from a sympathetic cause to detestable?

Seriously bro, that last post was just so naive and plain wrong that it is almost hysterical. Pizza guy and bar-girl/tender make minimum wage. Right or wrong that is the reality of the situation.

And my uncle makes less. Where's his tip??

If you can afford to pay a single mother a salary AND sleep at night feeling good about yourself then you an afford to be generous to those who go the extra-mile for you.

In the case of the pizza guy, I don't understand how you could show up and see him working by himself doing the work of four people and not feel that IS the extra mile? I mean, anyone who doesn't deserve your tip would have quit/not worked there at all given those circumstances. Who is going to make your Pizza then?

Also, next time you're out at the bar having a great time and realize you haven't had to wait for drinks or chase down your girl also realize she is making minimum wage and still making sure your night is great. Tipping is the custom for showing appreciation for this.

I'll keep this in mind the next time I take transit. Day in, day out, that bus driver does his best to get me in to work. Or the receptionist that smiles and says hi every single morning. Or the guy who moves the furniture around the office. Or the girl that keeps the coffee station supplied. Or the lady that cleans our washroom. Or that old dude that says hi with a smile when I enter Walmart. And on and on and on. Tonnes of people making crappy money doing their best day in and day out. I just hope I can move with all that change I'm going to have to haul around with me every day.

[DuffMan]

I once heard that a long time ago, maybe even during one of the WW's, the waitresses, paid the tavern owners to work there. then they got tipped. So it started out with no wages + paying to work.
Don't know why but, I think it started in germany.

[Phanuthier]

You know the other day I was sitting around with a few friends, it would be pretty easy to make a little widget where you order food on this digital menu (i.e. like Amazon's Kindle) then it would totally eliminate the need for waiters/waitresses. Then we won't have these poor waiter/waitresses have to do the painful job that they're portrayed to have.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by jammies

It's weird how so many people here are against tipping, yet I've never been to a restaurant in Calgary where tips aren't allowed because the waitstaff is already getting paid fairly.

There are two conclusions one can take from this:

1) If you owned your own restaurant, you'd be the first to put your principles into practice, and history would be changed thenceforth, as an avalanche of customers would descend upon your trend-setting establishment.

2) You actually don't like tipping because you are cheap, and are making up post-facto reasons so as not to appear so.

There might actually be a couple #1s in this thread. We can only hope you decide the life of the restauranteur is for you.

Edit - there are plenty of #2s that already own bars and restaurants, they like the idea of tipping for other people as it saves them money on paying their staff. The hypocrisy of this, of course, is irrelevant to them.

But most people aren't against tipping. They're against tipping for crappy service. I know for me, I always tip, but sometimes its purely out of guilt and to not look cheap, and not because I had good service. Even crappy service gets some kind of tip from me.

As to pizza making guy, that's a personal choice. I wouldn't tip him, because making pizza is his job, and when he got hired, tips should not have been factored into his hiring wage. That's completely different from waiters and hostesses, where it is factored in and thus people should tip.

What most people are arguing against is why we should tip pizza making guy just because of his life story. I don't know whether he has 3 jobs or not, or are saving up for university. For all I know, pizza making guy could be using the money to buy booze and smoke up. I don't know, and I honestly I don't really care. He didn't go above what he's paid to do to make me my pizza. Why does he deserve a tip?

Edit: I just want to add, I would tip pizza making guy if he went above and beyond his job to get me my pizza. That, to me is, is the point of tipping in the first place.

[gottabekd]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

You know the other day I was sitting around with a few friends, it would be pretty easy to make a little widget where you order food on this digital menu (i.e. like Amazon's Kindle) then it would totally eliminate the need for waiters/waitresses. Then we won't have these poor waiter/waitresses have to do the painful job that they're portrayed to have.

So...who brings you the food?

(And I'm too lazy to search, but there are plenty of examples of what you describe. I think one had some sort of automated conveyor belt that delivers food. In Europe or something)