Beijing Olympics Thread

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by flamesfan6

we were .01m from winning bronze in mens shotput .... sigh

At least 4th isn't as bad as people think. If any of the top 3 guys test positive, he gets a medal. But yeah 1 cm is kinda crappy.

[CaptainCrunch]

I was more impressed with the 18 year old from Kenya in the 800 meter womans qualifier, she's just effortless.

[Mango]

The women's soccer team deserved a better fate...it's disappointing to see Pellerud go . He's done so much for Canadian women's soccer. He really put our nation on the women's soccer map.

[Bertuzzied]

Ryan Cochrane sets an olympic record, 2nd fastest swim in history and beats his personal best by 10 seconds in the Mens' 1500m free style.

[octothorp]

Current Canadian Total
0-0-0-0

Current Canadian Prediction
4-2-6-12


medal favorites:

Karine Sergerie - Taekwando
Karen Cockburn - Trampoline
Adam van Koeverden - 500 kayak
Adam van Koeverden - 1000 Kayak
Marie Helen Premont - Mountain Biking
Men's Eights - rowing - qualified for final with fastest time
Frandsen and Calder - rowing - qualified for final with fastest time
Alexandre Despatie - 3m platform


medal hopefuls:

Sebastien Michaud -Taekwondo
Tonya Verbeek -wrestling
Gary Reed -800m
Mark Oldershaw -canoing
Women's softball team - 3-1
Samantha Cools - BMX
Cameron and Kok - rowing - qualified for final
Women's eights - rowing - qualified for final
Chris Cook - sailing - 5th heading into finals
Synchro swim team
Simon Whitfield - triathalon
Jessica Zelinka - heptathalon** - 6th place with three events left
Blythe Hartley - diving** - 3rd going into semifinals
Cockburn - 1500m swimming* - qualified for final with 2nd fastest time
Annamay Pierse- 200m breaststroke - no medal
Brent Hayden - no medal
Chris Brown - swimming - no medal
Men's synchro diving - no medal


On the bubble:

Christopher - 400m*
Sullivan - 1500m* - qualified for finals with 7th best time
Men's double sculls - rowing - no medal
Men's fours -rowing - qualified for finals with 5th best time
women's soccer -1-2-1 - no medal
baseball - 2-2
Hyunh - wrestling 48k*


*newly added
** promoted from bubble
red - newly added result


Thoughts on last night's competition:

Well, some disappointing results for the teams, with the women's soccer team losing (not really a surprise), the women's softball going 1-1, (a decent result that won't prevent them from getting to the medal round), and the baseball team losing to Korea. That last one hurts, as it makes getting to the medal round pretty tough. They need to find a way to win at least one of their games vs. US and Japan.
Dylan Armstrong came from out of nowhere to make a strong push for a bronze in shotput. Zelinka made a strong appearance in heptathlon, currently in 6th after four events. Sullivan looks good in the 1500.

Two more rowing teams advanced to the finals. Of the five rowing teams competing in the finals, I think four have serious medal chances.

Blythe Hartley, despite my doubts, had the third highest score in qualifying for the next round in diving.


Competing for medals tonight:

Fransden and Calder - rowing - I think this is as close to a medal lock as we've got. The two have been absolutely dominating in the heats and semis, and they and the british should be way ahead of the rest of the field for gold and silver.

Zelinka - will need personal bests in all of the remaining disciplines to move up from sixth to a medal spot, but she's got personal bests in three of the four events so far.

Chris Cook - sailing - he's in fifth heading into the final race tonight, and well within striking distance of third spot.

Verbeek, Hyunh - wrestling - Verbeek's the defending silver medalist in her category, but struggled at the last world championships. Hyunh has been a consistent fifth.

Other Favorites and hopefuls in action tonight:
Hartley in the diving semifinals.

Baseball - I called the game against Korea a must win, and now the game tonight against the US is a really must win.

Softball - I expect Canada to rebound after a tough loss. They should be able to handle Venezuela.

Trampoline Prelims - I'm very curious to see how Cockburn looks... two time medalist and I have her listed as a favorite, but does she have enough here in her third Olympics?


Most likely to disappoint tonight:

Probably Cockburn, simply because I had her too highly rated. She'll get through the prelims, but it may not be with one of the top scores.


Most likely to surprise tonight:

The swimming team! Well, there are no Canadians in the water tonight, which will be a nice break from the disappointment of the last week.

Okay, actually I think tonight's the night. We've got four athletes competing for medals, all of whom will likely finish in that 4th-to-6th range, plus Fransden and Calder who have a really great chance to medal.

[Kerplunk]

Originally Posted by browna

But then, an error by the SS. A ground out to make two outs..but then a hit batter, followed by a passed ball. And another poor error by the SS.

The pitcher had a rough string there, beaning the one and putting a few others into the dirt. Not something you want against one of the best hitting/running teams in the tournament. It didn't help that the shortstop blew what should have been a routine play to first.

Hopefully they will take away the fact that they went 5 innings blanking the gold favorites and use that as motivation for the next few games.

[OzSome]

I was reading the Herald today and there's an article on the interview with the Swimming Coach Pierre Lafontaine. The guy seems content with the medal less olympic because 70% of Canadian swimmer had put in their personal best and 21 set national records. Wow, now I know why Canadian swim team haven't won a medal at all. It is because all the coach cares is having them to beat Canadian record or beat their personal best. This is the Olympic and the reason why they are there is to compete for the medals. I do not care if they are going against the best and the coach should not be happy with the outcome of this Olympic no medal for swim team.
The time to beat national record and personal best is before the Olympics. Maybe I am just annoyed or dissappointed that after a week of Olympics, we still have NO (zero) medal.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by OzSome

I was reading the Herald today and there's an article on the interview with the Swimming Coach Pierre Lafontaine. The guy seems content with the medal less olympic because 70% of Canadian swimmer had put in their personal best and 21 set national records. Wow, now I know why Canadian swim team haven't won a medal at all. It is because all the coach cares is having them to beat Canadian record or beat their personal best. This is the Olympic and the reason why they are there is to compete for the medals. I do not care if they are going against the best and the coach should not be happy with the outcome of this Olympic no medal for swim team.
The time to beat national record and personal best is before the Olympics. Maybe I am just annoyed or dissappointed that after a week of Olympics, we still have NO (zero) medal.

I really don't understand all the anger over the swim results. Did you or anyone else really have different expectations? I thought they had an outside shot at one medal, most likely Hayden. But it seems like people have an expectation that the Canadians should have earned a fistful of medals at this point, which is completely unrealistic. Maybe the fault is on the media who, in their typical Canadian optimism, made it sound like all of our athletes are world-beaters.

After the debacle at the Athens Olympics, Swim Canada pretty much rebuilt from the ground up. High-level coaches were fired, athletes retired, and there was a real lack of young swimmers being developed, so the entire developmental system had to be restocked. It's not that the Canadian coaches don't care about medals, it's that medals at Beijing were simply unlikely; they've been fairly clear that they're trying to rebuild the program for London in 2012, and they've set firm medal expectations for that year. Results this year are vastly improved over Athens (not in terms of Canadian records and personal bests (which are meaningless in the context of the new swimsuits and fast pool), but in terms of where Canada ranks overall as a swimming nation when looking at a compilation of all individual results). I'm not happy about the results, but they're honestly pretty much exactly what I expected (if not slightly better).

[JayP]

What is Canada's status regarding the new Speedo swim suits?

I know some athletes and countries were locked into sponsorships with other companies and were scrambling to figure out a solution just prior to the Olympics.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by JayP

What is Canada's status regarding the new Speedo swim suits?

I know some athletes and countries were locked into sponsorships with other companies and were scrambling to figure out a solution just prior to the Olympics.

I believe that it's the individual athlete's choice in most situations. In Japan, the national body originally made wearing these a requirement, but individual athletes had sponsorships with other manufacturers.

As of earlier this week, 33 of the 36 medals won at the Olympics this year were by athletes wearing the Speedo LZR.

There was one australian swimmer, I've forgotten her name. She accidentally put on the wrong swimsuit during the semifinals and missed qualifying for the finals. She got into the finals when another swimmer was disqualified. In the finals, she was wearing the LZR and ended up 2nd by a fingernail.

[fredr123]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/25932342?__so...*blog*&par=RSS

Nike stepped aside to allow its sponsored athletes to wear the Speedo LZR. It's a one time exemption for these games only and it's rumored that the Nike athletes must cover the Speedo logo.

[OzSome]

Originally Posted by octothorp

I really don't understand all the anger over the swim results. Did you or anyone else really have different expectations? I thought they had an outside shot at one medal, most likely Hayden. But it seems like people have an expectation that the Canadians should have earned a fistful of medals at this point, which is completely unrealistic. Maybe the fault is on the media who, in their typical Canadian optimism, made it sound like all of our athletes are world-beaters.

After the debacle at the Athens Olympics, Swim Canada pretty much rebuilt from the ground up. High-level coaches were fired, athletes retired, and there was a real lack of young swimmers being developed, so the entire developmental system had to be restocked. It's not that the Canadian coaches don't care about medals, it's that medals at Beijing were simply unlikely; they've been fairly clear that they're trying to rebuild the program for London in 2012, and they've set firm medal expectations for that year. Results this year are vastly improved over Athens (not in terms of Canadian records and personal bests (which are meaningless in the context of the new swimsuits and fast pool), but in terms of where Canada ranks overall as a swimming nation when looking at a compilation of all individual results). I'm not happy about the results, but they're honestly pretty much exactly what I expected (if not slightly better).

I am not ticked off at the swimmers at all, I just can't stand it when CBC and the swim coach (CBC especially) have to mention this so-and-so broke the Canadian record or beat the personal best. I don't know how good are the Canadian swimmers therefore I don't have any expectations. There are times that it is easier to watch the American cable channel when it comes to swimming competition. At least, they don't mention that freaking national or personal best record for Canadians.

Then for a coach to say the same thing, of course I am not happy. It's just like telling your athletes, hey I am not worry about you not winning the medals as long as you beat your personal best. It's like Mike Keenan telling the Calgary Flames players, don't worry about making the playoffs as long as you beat your personal best in goals, assists or goal against.

Maybe you are right the Canadian swimmers are not good enough.

[Ruttiger]

Originally Posted by octothorp

I really don't understand all the anger over the swim results. Did you or anyone else really have different expectations? I thought they had an outside shot at one medal, most likely Hayden. But it seems like people have an expectation that the Canadians should have earned a fistful of medals at this point, which is completely unrealistic. Maybe the fault is on the media who, in their typical Canadian optimism, made it sound like all of our athletes are world-beaters.

After the debacle at the Athens Olympics, Swim Canada pretty much rebuilt from the ground up. High-level coaches were fired, athletes retired, and there was a real lack of young swimmers being developed, so the entire developmental system had to be restocked. It's not that the Canadian coaches don't care about medals, it's that medals at Beijing were simply unlikely; they've been fairly clear that they're trying to rebuild the program for London in 2012, and they've set firm medal expectations for that year. Results this year are vastly improved over Athens (not in terms of Canadian records and personal bests (which are meaningless in the context of the new swimsuits and fast pool), but in terms of where Canada ranks overall as a swimming nation when looking at a compilation of all individual results). I'm not happy about the results, but they're honestly pretty much exactly what I expected (if not slightly better).

^x2 People who are disappointed with the performance of our swim team are probably simply not aware of how far back they've had to come in such a short amount of time. In Athens only 3 swimmers made finals, and we've far eclipsed that this time around. It's coming, for sure. But to entirely gut and rebuild an entire sporting program on a national level from the ground up does not happen overnight. It IS moving in the right direction and the results are there if you can see the big picture.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by OzSome

Then for a coach to say the same thing, of course I am not happy. It's just like telling your athletes, hey I am not worry about you not winning the medals as long as you beat your personal best. It's like Mike Keenan telling the Calgary Flames players, don't worry about making the playoffs as long as you beat your personal best in goals, assists or goal against.

It's actually nothing like that at all. Swimming comes down to your final time and nothing else. There's a lot more to hockey than your point totals.

I really don't see what's the problem with being happy with personal bests. Canadian bests I can agree with because in some events beating a Canadian record isn't saying a whole lot. But when it comes down to it, when you achieve a personal best you've raced better than you ever have in your life. I realize that's what you're supposed to do at the highest level, but you can only knock so much time off your previous best. If you actually compare medalling times to some of the Canadian's personal bests going into the Olympics it's very unreasonable to expect them to lop off that much of a difference and get on the podium.

It's funny to see so much whining about the medal total when octothorp's analysis is sitting right there. Obviously it's not going to be entirely accurate, but it gives a good look at what chances Canada has. None of our medal favorites have even competed in the medal rounds. Only 4/18 medal hopefuls have finished competing. It seems pretty reasonable that our medal count would be low at this stage in the Olympics.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by OzSome

I am not ticked off at the swimmers at all, I just can't stand it when CBC and the swim coach (CBC especially) have to mention this so-and-so broke the Canadian record or beat the personal best. I don't know how good are the Canadian swimmers therefore I don't have any expectations. There are times that it is easier to watch the American cable channel when it comes to swimming competition. At least, they don't mention that freaking national or personal best record for Canadians.

Then for a coach to say the same thing, of course I am not happy. It's just like telling your athletes, hey I am not worry about you not winning the medals as long as you beat your personal best. It's like Mike Keenan telling the Calgary Flames players, don't worry about making the playoffs as long as you beat your personal best in goals, assists or goal against.

Maybe you are right the Canadian swimmers are not good enough.

Fair enough, I don't like any mention about the individual and canadian records either... with this pool as fast as it is, Canadian records should be automatic. However, getting swimmers through to the finals of events is a meaningful measuring stick and one that Canada is doing pretty well at.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by JayP

It's actually nothing like that at all. Swimming comes down to your final time and nothing else. There's a lot more to hockey than your point totals.

I really don't see what's the problem with being happy with personal bests. Canadian bests I can agree with because in some events beating a Canadian record isn't saying a whole lot. But when it comes down to it, when you achieve a personal best you've raced better than you ever have in your life. I realize that's what you're supposed to do at the highest level, but you can only knock so much time off your previous best. If you actually compare medalling times to some of the Canadian's personal bests going into the Olympics it's very unreasonable to expect them to lop off that much of a difference and get on the podium.

It's funny to see so much whining about the medal total when octothorp's analysis is sitting right there. Obviously it's not going to be entirely accurate, but it gives a good look at what chances Canada has. None of our medal favorites have even competed in the medal rounds. Only 4/18 medal hopefuls have finished competing. It seems pretty reasonable that our medal count would be low at this stage in the Olympics.

Having the 4 or even 1 would be nice. It's that big fat ZERO in the paper every morning that's got everyone on edge. At work this morning the only thing I heard was:

"What's wrong with Canada, can't even win a (censored) medal."

Let's get the men's 8 tonight gold and everyone will be able to breathe again.

[CaptainCrunch]

Its great to be happy with personal bests in the pool, however in an Olympic venue with what seems to be like a very fast pool, and a very fast new suit technology, where people are shaving two or three seconds or more off of a world record time, is beating a Canadian Record, or beating their best time an indicator of an improved swimmer, or an improved technology?

Put these Canadian swimmers into the environment where they posted their best previous time, and I bet they don't beat their best times or set their Canadian Records.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Having the 4 or even 1 would be nice. It's that big fat ZERO in the paper every morning that's got everyone on edge. At work this morning the only thing I heard was:

"What's wrong with Canada, can't even win a (censored) medal."

Let's get the men's 8 tonight gold and everyone will be able to breathe again.

Tricky part of that is that the men's 8 doesn't race until Sunday (late Saturday night here). However, if you're advocating breaking into the medal storage compound somewhere in Beijing, overpowering the guards, locating the gold medal for the men's 8s, and absconding with it... well, I'm right behind you.

[Devils'Advocate]

How about we rename the nationals the "Canada Olympics". They can all go about doing their personal bests and setting Canadian records *AND* we don't have to embarrass ourselves by losing each and every event. And the taxpayers save some money by not paying for trips to China.

I guess that's my spin from the other thread. If we are going for "participant" ribbons, then we should be putting LESS money in rather than MORE.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Having the 4 or even 1 would be nice. It's that big fat ZERO in the paper every morning that's got everyone on edge. At work this morning the only thing I heard was:

"What's wrong with Canada, can't even win a (censored) medal."

Let's get the men's 8 tonight gold and everyone will be able to breathe again.

It's all about odds though.

Medal hopefuls are probably in that 5-8 range in the world. The chances of them winning a medal is maybe 25%. So really with 4 already competed Canada should probably expect 1 or 2 medals at most. But really, the odds are still likely that there's going to be that big fat zero in this case.

If Canada is still shut out after tonight's events and 4 more medal hopefuls then we're starting to lag behind.