How To Repel Mormons?

[photon]

Originally Posted by onetwo_threefour

Yeah, I 've heard all that before, but then the question is, what differentiates an agnostic from a 'weak atheist'.

A weak atheist is open to the possibility, while an agnostic speaks to the ability to know. While a weak atheist says there's no evidence, an agnostic would say the entire thing is inherently unknowable. There can be both agnostic theists and agnostic atheists.

I think I've heard people talk about strong and weak agnostics as well though, where my example above would be a strong agnostic and a weak agnostic would be similar to a weak atheist.

I don't know if you've read the God Delusion, but as far as I'm concerned Dawkins way overstates the level of confidence in the "no God' evidence as far as I'm concerned.

And yes I recognize that it is impossible to 'disprove' the existence of God on scientific terms, that is exactly why I say to be a true atheist who asserts that there is no God, you must be willing to believe without conclusive evidence.

Not necessarily, it depends what you mean by "God". If you mean a God, some supernatural being with unspecified qualities, sure. If you mean a specific God though, such as Zeus, Allah, or the God of the Bible, then I don't agree.

A strong atheist probably wouldn't say there's no God at all, but would say there's sufficient contrary evidence to conclude the nonexistence of the God of the Bible. 100% proof, of course not, science doesn't deal with proofs, it deals with evidence.

I strongly doubt the existence of God and see no conditions requiring the existence of God for the universe to exist, but acknowledge that the matter is beyond scientific proof, and will simply operate as though there is no supernatural agency directing life or responsible for the human condition.

I leave the possibility of such an agency existing open, but find the question intellectually uninteresting as there is no effective way of testing the hypothesis. (other than killing yourself, which seems rather extreme given the alternatives)

Even a strong atheist would likely agree with that view I think.

[onetwo_threefour]

Alright, I've read some more articles and discussions and slightly revised my position again. A few years ago I called myself an atheist, but found that when I would talk to people, they thought I meant I rejected the possibility of a god. (which is the view a lot of people take)

It's really a terminology problem.

I wil henceforth describe myself as a strong agnostic weak atheist, and let people figure out what that means.

[eddly]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Actually, I can confirm that. When I first moved to Calgary, my roommate at the time was an ex-Mormon atheist, but the rest of his family were still believers. They would frequently invite us over for dinner on Sunday evenings. One summer day, their BBQ ran out of propane, and my roommate's father insisted that we be the ones to go buy a refill, since it was his religious belief to never engage in commerce on a Sunday.

Basically if we can avoid it, we won't make purchases on Sunday. However, I have purchased medicine for my children on Sunday. Even as a missionary I once bought gas for our car on a Sunday. That wasn't a very good idea as I could have avoided that by buying gas the day before, but hey... I was young and not very organized back then lol.

[eddly]

Originally Posted by macker

I don't think the hard core mormons are allowed caffeine but correct me if I am truly BSing.

To clarify it isn't the caffiene that is the problem. We have been instructed to avoid coffee. Drinking it is considered a sin.

Caffeine is also in chocolate bars, hot chocolate, pop and those nice energy drinks that I often have. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that energy drinks actually have more caffiene than coffee... (I'm not sure if that is the case).

Beyond coffee, it has been recommended that we avoid pop with caffeine. In my opinion, it is just that... a suggestion. You have to understand though, that members of the mormon church have varying views on what is ok and what is bad. For example, as a missionary if someone offered me pepsi or coke I would drink it without hesitation. Another missionary I was friends with accidently drank it once (I guess he thought it was Rootbeer) and he acted like he had just killed someone... it was strange...

[krazycanuck]

I just have to add that people who claim religious groups/the guy selling you a dyson vacuum/those kids selling you the herald are tresspassing on your property are absolutely wrong. If you have a walkway from the public sidewalk, (even if they go through a gate) to your front door then there is an implied invitation and they are NOT tresspassers.

[eddly]

Originally Posted by Dion

Doesn't your faith teach that if i'm not baptised in your church i will not recieve the same glory in heaven as you?

Yes.

[Slava]

^^ Hey Eddly I thought that it was caffeine as well....so whats the rationale behind coffee being a sin? Just curious...whether I agree or not I can see why alcohol and things like that are off-limits, but coffee (and not pop or tea) seems like an odd one out!

Thanks.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

This is my own curiosity, but what's the theory behind the no caffeine? I never really understood no alcohol in Christianity when red wine is acceptable, and there are passages that condone the drink. However I once heard the argument that it alters your state of mind and leaves you more open to suggestion of sinful acts (which I believe is true) so while I disagree with the belief I certainly understand where the viewpoint comes from. With caffeine I don't know what the theory behind the the rule, or suggestion is. I'm not discrediting the belief, or saying it's foolish or wrong, just curious as to why it's there.

That said, not to get this thread more derailed, I'm not Mormon, nor have any intentions of converting, but do cheer for BYU during March Madness (mostly because a few years ago if BYU won their opening round game, the second game would have to be played on a Sunday, which the university doesn't do, so for some reason the commentators never got into the NCAA would have had to rebracket the entire tournament. I was cheering for them hardcore, and have casually ever since. Also of note Canadian Masters Champion Mike Weir is a BYU grad.)

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

Honestly, I deal with them the same way I deal with anyone who I don't know coming to my door. I look through the peephole, and unless they are a neighbour, cute girl, or look like they are in dire need of medical assistance, I just walk away without opening it.

I started my rule when I had 3 consecutive nights where my dinner was interrupted by knocks on my door from sales people / religion pushers.

It may be impolite to clearly be home and not answering the front door, but my mailbox is constantly full of junk, the highways are full of billboards, and my inbox is full of spam. I don't need people showing up for face to face meetings as well.

See, I don't think that's impolite at all. It's your choice to open the door or not. A knock at the door does not require an answer. I have used this method in the past too. Besides, you never know what whacko is coming to the door anyway. He might look like an axe salesman but is actually an axe murderer!

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Dion

Doesn't your faith teach that if i'm not baptised in your church i will not recieve the same glory in heaven as you?

What church would that be?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

What church would that be?

Mormon.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Slava

^^ Hey Eddly I thought that it was caffeine as well....so whats the rationale behind coffee being a sin? Just curious...whether I agree or not I can see why alcohol and things like that are off-limits, but coffee (and not pop or tea) seems like an odd one out!

Thanks.

Because it tastes like fecal matter?

That's why I don't drink it anyway!

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Dion

Mormon.

You haven't been paying attention. I'm not Mormon. Stated that clearly at least twice. I grew up Mormon. I am not Mormon now.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Because it tastes like fecal matter?

That's why I don't drink it anyway!

And i thought i was the only one who didn't drink coffee

Personaly i can't stand the taste.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

You haven't been paying attention. I'm not Mormon. Stated that clearly at least twice. I grew up Mormon. I am not Mormon now.

I knew you grew up Mormon which is why i asked the question. Thought you might know.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Dion

I knew you grew up Mormon which is why i asked the question. Thought you might know.

Ah...well you kept calling it my faith and my church. It certainly isn't.

Baptism's of dead family members are performed for that reason. One great thing about the Mormon church is that it is a massive source of genealogical information....and it is not just at the disposal of church members. If you ever want to research your family it's a great resource.

Let me pose this question though....I was baptized a Mormon as an 8 year old. Is that fact more important than my lack of faith? Shall I gain entry to heaven because I was baptized even though I don't necessarily believe in ANY church?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Because it tastes like fecal matter?

That's why I don't drink it anyway!

I know...my wife tells me how bad it is all the time! I do wonder what the significance is to the morman church though. Tell me its something better than them owning Coca-Cola stocks ! (As for why Coke is permissable but coffee isn't).

[Mightyfire89]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

He might look like an axe salesman but is actually an axe murderer!

Door to door axe salesman...now THAT would be a challenging job.

"There's someone at the door holding an axe, should I let him in?"

[onetwo_threefour]

Originally Posted by Dion

And i thought i was the only one who didn't drink coffee

Personaly i can't stand the taste.

Me neither.. But then I don't like beer either.. [duck and cover]. I'll drink hard stuff, but beer makes me gag.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Let me pose this question though....I was baptized a Mormon as an 8 year old. Is that fact more important than my lack of faith? Shall I gain entry to heaven because I was baptized even though I don't necessarily believe in ANY church?

It shouldn't be more important - at least in my eyes. IMO ones faith is where i'd put more emphasis.

I'm not a fan of any church or religion for that matter that says one has follow their faith or be baptised in their church to gian entry into heaven. I believe in a Christian God but no longer belong to organised religion becuase of the above.

IMO organised religion has become so focused on condemnation and not enough on forgiveness.