2008 NFL Off season thread.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by KTown

Wow 6 wins you're setting the bar high for your raiders

6 wins is realistic IMO. The prices were steep but you can't argue that the Raiders filled more holes than any other team in free agency. KC looks to be a bottom dweller especially if they think Croyle is starter material (which he isn't). Denver hasn't adressed their issues so I wouldn't expect much from them. I'm still not sold on Rivers or Norv Turner but San Diego should win the division and as long as Russell plays no worse than Culpepper or McCown last year (not a terribly difficult feat) the Raiders could (anything is possible lol) at least get into a late season running for a wild card birth.

In Davis we trust!

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

6 wins is realistic IMO. The prices were steep but you can't argue that the Raiders filled more holes than any other team in free agency. KC looks to be a bottom dweller especially if they think Croyle is starter material (which he isn't). Denver hasn't adressed their issues so I wouldn't expect much from them. I'm still not sold on Rivers or Norv Turner but San Diego should win the division and as long as Russell plays no worse than Culpepper or McCown last year (not a terribly difficult feat) the Raiders could (anything is possible lol) at least get into a late season running for a wild card birth.

In Davis we trust!

Which issues has Denver not adressed out of curiosity?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Which issues has Denver not adressed out of curiosity?

I don't think Boss Bailey is what they need at LB and their run defense still needs an upgrade. I'm sure you'd also admit that there is now a glaring hole in the kicking department.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I don't think Boss Bailey is what they need at LB and their run defense still needs an upgrade. I'm sure you'd also admit that there is now a glaring hole in the kicking department.

Bailey allows DJ Williams to move back outside. That is what was missing this season...DJ's speed on the outside. The D-Line was very young last season. Ekuban and Moss were hurt all year (almost for Moss) Tim Crowder showed promise. I don't think they are in as bad shape on the front 7 as most do.

I still can't believe Jason Elam isn't a Bronco...so yeah that's huge.

Still, I'm pretty confident they have a 10 win team, barring catastrophic injuries.

[rubecube]

I think the tackles need to be upgraded (Sam Adams is getting old) and Bly is still weak on the corner. The big question mark is Cutler. I see them as a 9-7 team personally, but 10 isn't out of the question. Even at 10-6 they still might be in tough to get a wildcard spot in the AFC.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I think the tackles need to be upgraded (Sam Adams is getting old) and Bly is still weak on the corner. The big question mark is Cutler. I see them as a 9-7 team personally, but 10 isn't out of the question. Even at 10-6 they still might be in tough to get a wildcard spot in the AFC.

See, I don't think Cutler is a question mark at all.

It will be interesting to see what they do with that #12 pick. Most mocks have had them taking Clady, but I'm warming to the idea of Keith Rivers.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

See, I don't think Cutler is a question mark at all.

That likely has to do with the fact that you are a Broncos fan.

I think there are still issues with the Broncos in terms of them being a playoff team, but they are clearly much better than either the Raiders or the Chiefs.

If getting Bailey is looked at as an improvement than there are definitely issues. Not only is he not that great but he is unlikely to make it through the whole season anyways.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by moon

That likely has to do with the fact that you are a Broncos fan.

I think there are still issues with the Broncos in terms of them being a playoff team, but they are clearly much better than either the Raiders or the Chiefs.

If getting Bailey is looked at as an improvement than there are definitely issues. Not only is he not that great but he is unlikely to make it through the whole season anyways.

Let me put it this way...if Cutler is a question mark, so are 20 other QB's in the NFL.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Let me put it this way...if Cutler is a question mark, so are 20 other QB's in the NFL.

I am not sure he is top ten but I would agree that 15 other Qb's are question marks when it comes to leading their teams to the play-offs.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Let me put it this way...if Cutler is a question mark, so are 20 other QB's in the NFL.

Well his only weapon Brandon Marshall will miss most of training camp with a new playbook and Colbert isn't an answer. They could always count on Elam but not anymore. They will find out that the league is riddled with mediocre kickers. Defense will continue to be a problem. Biggest problem is the guy running the show. Shanahan is a good coach but he's been terrible in acessing talent and now he's running out of scapegoats to blame. As a Raiders fan it would be a dissapointing season if they finished behind the Broncos.

[Clever_Iggy]

I thought Cutler played great at points last year and terrible at points last year. For a second year player, I think that he's coming along nicely. If the Raiders get a similar rate of improvement from Russell, this Raiders fan will be pleased.

Is Cutler top 10? I put him behind Manning, Manning, Brady, Brees, Hasselbeck, McNabb, Romo, and Palmer. IMO, he's in the same bracket as Roethlisberger, Anderson, Rivers and Garrard. So, 9 to 13.

When you look at the likes of KC, Miami, Chicago, Baltimore, NYJets, Minnesota, Houston, Washington, Atlanta, Carolina, etc... Culter looks really good. He's got the tools to be in the top tier, behind Manning and Brady.

[Bobblehead]

Speaking of Cutler, "Broncos QB rips wide receiver
Cutler decries horseplay that injured Marshall"

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ml?eref=si_nfl

I wonder if that is hyperbole, or if there may be some tensions?

[moon]

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

Is Cutler top 10? I put him behind Manning, Manning, Brady, Brees, Hasselbeck, McNabb, Romo, and Palmer. IMO, he's in the same bracket as Roethlisberger, Anderson, Rivers and Garrard. So, 9 to 13.

Roethlisberger is miles ahead of Culter and probably is 4-5 in the league.

Add in Garcia and Bulger and Cutler falls in somewhere between 10-15, probably closer to 15th.

If the Raiders can get anything positive out of Russel this year I would be amazed. A Cutler like season would be a miracle. He was a bad pick as the #1 when it was made and now with a season of basically doing nothing he will only be worse.

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by moon

Roethlisberger is miles ahead of Culter and probably is 4-5 in the league.

Agreed. Roethlisberger established himself as a premiere franchise QB last season.

On a complete side note, since theres alot of Saints fans on here, I thought I'd mention this: DE Will Smith is not participating in the Saints off-season conditioning program, as per rotoworld.com.

"Smith is frustrated with the team's failure to restructure his contract. He is seeking an extension and a raise after watching fellow lineman Charles Grant land big money last season. The Saints would like to lock up Smith long-term, but the sides remain a ways apart."

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by moon

Roethlisberger is miles ahead of Culter and probably is 4-5 in the league.

Add in Garcia and Bulger and Cutler falls in somewhere between 10-15, probably closer to 15th.

If the Raiders can get anything positive out of Russel this year I would be amazed. A Cutler like season would be a miracle. He was a bad pick as the #1 when it was made and now with a season of basically doing nothing he will only be worse.

I cant agree that Roethlisberger is top 5. He plays in a pretty cushy situation... great defense, great running game great o-line, etc... He's great, but his success is more of a result of the system and personnel around him than his ability.

I dont know if sitting him for the first year was necessarily a bad move. Granted, the Raiders had little choice because of his hold out, but for every Manning (who started from day 1), there's a Palmer (who benefited from being the heir apparent and learning for the first year). Regardless, the ball is in Russell's hands and Im hoping for a Cutler like projection.

Russell being picked #1 was a product of the Raiders going with Huff the year before. If they picked a QB at 7 the year before (either Leinart or Cutler) they could have picked Calvin Johnson or filled a hole somewhere else. The franchise needed a QB.... so it was a necessity pick rather than the best available player pick.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

I cant agree that Roethlisberger is top 5. He plays in a pretty cushy situation... great defense, great running game great o-line, etc... He's great, but his success is more of a result of the system and personnel around him than his ability.

I dont know if sitting him for the first year was necessarily a bad move. Granted, the Raiders had little choice because of his hold out, but for every Manning (who started from day 1), there's a Palmer (who benefited from being the heir apparent and learning for the first year). Regardless, the ball is in Russell's hands and Im hoping for a Cutler like projection.

Russell being picked #1 was a product of the Raiders going with Huff the year before. If they picked a QB at 7 the year before (either Leinart or Cutler) they could have picked Calvin Johnson or filled a hole somewhere else. The franchise needed a QB.... so it was a necessity pick rather than the best available player pick.

Roethlisberger won a SuperBowl. Now he has had a lot of help around him but he still makes a lot of throws, can run with the ball and is much better at managing his team than Cutler and others on your list.

I think Russell definitely needed to sit last year and probably this year as well, but what hurt him was sitting out with the contract dispute. The guy couldn't read defenses in college and needs all the practice time possible to help him with this. What he didn't need was to sit at home for an extra million dollars.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by moon

If the Raiders can get anything positive out of Russel this year I would be amazed. A Cutler like season would be a miracle. He was a bad pick as the #1 when it was made and now with a season of basically doing nothing he will only be worse.

All first round QB's have a chance at being busts but listening to scouts last year talk about his rare combination of size, mobility and the best arm since John Elway how could a team with Andrew Walter as the only QB option in the fanchise pass him up? I believe he will be a top 5 quarterback and the only thing that can hold him back is his weight and being part of a team run by a senile man (Davis).

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

I cant agree that Roethlisberger is top 5. He plays in a pretty cushy situation... great defense, great running game great o-line, etc... He's great, but his success is more of a result of the system and personnel around him than his ability.

Are you kidding? He spent most of last season running for his life. He's very mobile for a large man and can make all the throws. He's definately top ten and close to top 5 IMO.

[Sainters7]

Looks like Leinart's makin the most of his off-season...



I love this 2nd pic

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Well his only weapon Brandon Marshall will miss most of training camp with a new playbook and Colbert isn't an answer. They could always count on Elam but not anymore. They will find out that the league is riddled with mediocre kickers. Defense will continue to be a problem. Biggest problem is the guy running the show. Shanahan is a good coach but he's been terrible in acessing talent and now he's running out of scapegoats to blame. As a Raiders fan it would be a dissapointing season if they finished behind the Broncos.

They will. I guarantee it.

Marshall is far from Cutler's only weapon, but he is the most promising. He won't miss any of training camp by the way. Research is your friend. Do it before spouting off.

Colbert was signed to compete for the 3rd/4th spot. You forgot about Brandon Stokely who had a nice year despite being banged up most of it.

They are sitting pretty at TE with Tony Scheffler, who is without a doubt a weapon and Daniel Graham.

The running game is never a problem which only helps the passing game and the Broncos once again have several backs that can get the job done on any given gameday.

The biggest question on offense is the protection. Some young guy will have to step up to replace Lepsis...other than that, Nalen is back after missing almost the entire season, Casey Wiegman will probably take Ben Hamilton's spot at C(out all of last year) allowing Hamilton to move back to guard.

Kicking game hasn't been addressed yet.

You say defense will continue to be a problem yet you give absolutely zero support to that claim. Doesn't hold much water. In fact, the defense was way better the last 3rd of the season and the plan to move DJ Williams back outside and with the return of Ekuban (out all year) Moss (out almost all year) and the continued development of Elvis Dumervil, there is reason to think the front 7 will be improved.

In the secondary they have added 2 veteran safeties who improve the starters and depth.

Jim Bates' departure will trump all of that however and the Broncos return to a blitz heavy, aggressive defense will pay big dividends. Scheme change will be gigantic.

I'll take Shanahan's talent evaluation over anyone the Raiders have been using the last 15 years. Your team hasn't exactly lit up the draft.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Speaking of Cutler, "Broncos QB rips wide receiver
Cutler decries horseplay that injured Marshall"

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ml?eref=si_nfl

I wonder if that is hyperbole, or if there may be some tensions?

Not tension, but concern for sure....and leadership.