China needs to chill out. Big time.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

Forgive me for going off topic, but I'm somewhat sensitive about drive-by smears against small towns. I've lived roughly have my life in small town Alberta and half of it in Calgary, and I don't see that being the case. If anything, the items on that list might be a little more prevalent in large urban centres than small towns. They're certainly no worse in small towns.

Back on topic ... just had to stick up for small towns.

I agree completely.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Azure

China is outrageous in their manners, international affairs, human rights, etc, etc.

Again, what does that have to do with the US? Most of us don't even live there.

Obviously people make comparisons to other countries because that's one of the easiest ways to put international actions into perspective. There's a whole realm of Political Science called Comparative Politics that is solely devoted to making comparisons between nation-states in order to understand specific actions within context.

It's not against the rules to compare the actions of one state to those of another to gain perspective. If you look at any state without considering any others, you're doing so in an artificial vaccuum that allows for distorted value/moral judgements.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Just off the top of my head, what they could find rude et al include

• professionalism of students in schools (sleeping in class, slouching, etc)
• attitudes towards authoritative figures (teachers, cops, etc)
• slow drivers in the left lane... heh
• attitudes of "don't care" employees that don't take responsibility for their work
• business attire and attitudes (i.e. different customs)
• treatment of elders (i.e. sending them to old folks home)
• tolerance of children being rude
• table manners (differ from country to country)
• possibly use of inappropriate words in a derogatory manner... gay, lame, ######ed (personally this bothers me the most)

Note that I grew up in Canada myself so they arn't a concern of mine (except the last point - that really bothers me, but I digress), just pointing ones I could see a foreigner seeing.

You have been to China and you made THIS list????????????????????

Now are you talking really about Chinese in Canada? Because most Chinese in CHINA wouldn't have a clue about 6 bullet points on your list. Please don't confuse Chinese Canadians with Mainland Chinese. Two different animals.

Cudos for table manners and business manners. Yes we have some and they are the ones I picked....Japanese complain about those too.

As for;

slow drivers in the left lane... heh
- Umm....from what I saw in Beijing and elsewhere....left lane??? How about any lane...how about 7 lanes of cars on 3 lanes of road?

attitudes of "don't care" employees that don't take responsibility for their work
- This is communist China where work hard is still a government program.

tolerance of children being rude
- Umm..versus China one child me, me, me , MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE society?



Worst Chinese (mainland) habits.

Spitting: Anywhere, anytime, all the time. Horking up a load on a public bus and trying to pave the floor with it. Not just one old fart at the back either.

Urinating and dumping a mud monkey anywhere anytime; Kids(always)/ adults (sometimes).

Hockers at tourist sites: Takes 1 day before you look start looking up the words for FOff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Best mainland habit:
Friendly and helpful people in the most surprising places. Speak a little Chinese to them and they seemed to go out of their way to be friendly.

When buying things from the "best places" them you play it like a game and laugh. Got the best advice for restaurants from a guy I bought DVDs from. DVDs didn't work.


BTW: Loved my trip to China...best vacation I have had....so far. Bangkok was a close second followed by Korea.

Food. 1. Korea 2.Thailand 3. China (only because I was never sure of the quality)

[Azure]

Originally Posted by RT14

they don't have a democratic government, but there's a damn good reason for it all - THERE'S 1.3 BILLION PEOPLE HERE!

Yeah, because human beings were born to live under an oppressive government.

Screw the idea of freedom. You know, 'freedom' of expression, 'freedom' of choice, etc, etc.

Oh, I just about forgot. India has 1.12 billion people, and is a 'demcracy.'

Nice try though.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Azure

Yeah, because human beings were born to live under an oppressive government.

Screw the idea of freedom. You know, 'freedom' of expression, 'freedom' of choice, etc, etc.

Oh, I just about forgot. India has 1.12 billion people, and is a 'demcracy.'

Nice try though.

Not to mention that every now and then China decides that being a brutal authoritarian state isn't enough and decides the poor people of China need a good dose of totalitarian terror to keep them in line.

It's a brutal state that we don't care nearly enough about.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by RT14

they don't have a democratic government, but there's a damn good reason for it all - THERE'S 1.3 BILLION PEOPLE HERE!

India has a Democratically elected government. They have reached about 1.3 billion people too.

Let me guess....you just started living there, have a huge apartment/house, don't speak a lick of any of the 8 main Chinese dialects and have a maid that does the shopping for the food?

Right?

[TangerZ]

Today, I extend heartfelt greetings to my Chinese brothers and sisters
round the world, particularly to those in the People's Republic of
China. In the light of the recent developments in Tibet, I would like to
share with you my thoughts concerning relations between the Tibetan and
Chinese peoples, and to make a personal appeal to you all.

I am deeply saddened by the loss of life in the recent tragic events in
Tibet. I am aware that some Chinese have also died. I feel for the
victims and their families and pray for them. The recent unrest has
clearly demonstrated the gravity of the situation in Tibet and the
urgent need to seek a peaceful and mutually beneficial solution through
dialogue. Even at this juncture I have expressed my willingness to the
Chinese authorities to work together to bring about peace and stability.

Chinese brothers and sisters, I assure you I have no desire to seek
Tibet's separation. Nor do I have any wish to drive a wedge between the
Tibetan and Chinese peoples. On the contrary my commitment has always
been to find a genuine solution to the problem of Tibet that ensures the
long-term interests of both Chinese and Tibetans. My primary concern, as
I have repeated time and again, is to ensure the survival of the Tibetan
people's distinctive culture, language and identity. As a simple monk
who strives to live his daily life according to Buddhist precepts, I
assure you of the sincerity of my motivation.

I have appealed to the leadership of the PRC to clearly understand my
position and work to resolve these problems by "seeking truth from
facts." I urge the Chinese leadership to exercise wisdom and to initiate
a meaningful dialogue with the Tibetan people. I also appeal to them to
make sincere efforts to contribute to the stability and harmony of the
PRC and avoid creating rifts between the nationalities. The state
media's portrayal of the recent events in Tibet, using deceit and
distorted images, could sow the seeds of racial tension with
unpredictable long-­term consequences. This is of grave concern to me.
Similarly, despite my repeated support for the Beijing Olympics, the
Chinese authorities, with the intention of creating rift between the
Chinese people and myself, assert that I am trying to sabotage the
games. I am encouraged, however, that several Chinese intellectuals and
scholars have also expressed their strong concern about the Chinese
leadership's actions and the potential for adverse long-term
consequences, particularly on relations among different nationalities.

Since ancient times, Tibetan and Chinese peoples have lived as
neighbors. In the two thousand year-old recorded history of our peoples,
we have at times developed friendly relations, even entering into
matrimonial alliances, while at other times we fought each other.
However, since Buddhism flourished in China first before it arrived in
Tibet from India, we Tibetans have historically accorded the Chinese
people the respect and affection due to elder Dharma brothers and
sisters. This is something well known to members of the Chinese
community living outside China, some of whom have attended my Buddhist
lectures, as well as pilgrims from mainland China, whom I have had the
privilege to meet. I take heart from these meetings and feel they may
contribute to a better understanding between our two peoples.

The twentieth century witnessed enormous changes in many parts of the
world and Tibet, too, was caught up in this turbulence. Soon after the
founding of the People's Republic of China in 1949, the People's
Liberation Army entered Tibet finally resulting in the 17-Point
Agreement concluded between China and Tibet in May 1951. When I was in Beijing in 1954-55, attending the National People's Congress, I had the
opportunity to meet and develop a personal friendship with many senior
leaders, including Chairman Mao himself. In fact, Chairman Mao gave me
advice on numerous issues, as well as personal assurances with regard to
the future of Tibet. Encouraged by these assurances, and inspired by the
dedication of many of China's revolutionary leaders of the time, I
returned to Tibet full of confidence and optimism. Some Tibetan members
of the Communist Party also had such a hope. After my return to Lhasa, I
made every possible effort to seek genuine autonomy for Tibet within the
family of the People's Republic of China (PRC). I believed that this
would best serve the long-term interests of both the Tibetan and Chinese
peoples.

Unfortunately, tensions, which began to escalate in Tibet from around
1956, eventually led to the peaceful uprising of March 10, 1959, in
Lhasa and my eventual escape into exile. Although many positive
developments have taken place in Tibet under the PRC's rule, these
developments, as the previous Panchen Lama pointed out in January 1989,
were overshadowed by immense suffering and extensive destruction.
Tibetans were compelled to live in a state of constant fear, while the
Chinese government remained suspicious of them. However, instead of
cultivating enmity towards the Chinese leaders responsible for the
ruthless suppression of the Tibetan people, I prayed for them to become
friends, which I expressed in the following lines in a prayer I composed
in 1960, a year after I arrived in India: "May they attain the wisdom
eye discerning right and wrong, And may they abide in the glory of
friendship and love." Many Tibetans, school children among them, recite
these lines in their daily prayers.

In 1974, following serious discussions with my Kashag (cabinet), as well
as the Speaker and the Deputy Speaker of the then Assembly of the
Tibetan People's Deputies, we decided to find a Middle Way that would
seek not to separate Tibet from China, but would facilitate the peaceful
development of Tibet. Although we had no contact at the time with the
PRC - which was in the midst of the Cultural Revolution - we had already
recognized that sooner or later, we would have to resolve the question
of Tibet through negotiations. We also acknowledged that, at least with
regard to modernization and economic development, it would greatly
benefit Tibet if it remained within the PRC. Although Tibet has a rich
and ancient cultural heritage, it is materially undeveloped.

Situated on the roof of the world, Tibet is the source of many of Asia's
major rivers, therefore, protection of the environment on the Tibetan
plateau is of supreme importance. Since our utmost concern is to
safeguard Tibetan Buddhist culture - rooted as it is in the values of
universal compassion - as well as the Tibetan language and the unique
Tibetan identity, we have worked whole-heartedly towards achieving
meaningful self-rule for all Tibetans. The PRC's constitution provides
the right for nationalities such as the Tibetans to do this.

In 1979, the then Chinese paramount leader, Deng Xiaoping assured my
personal emissary that "except for the independence of Tibet, all other
questions can be negotiated." Since we had already formulated our
approach to seeking a solution to the Tibetan issue within the
constitution of the PRC, we found ourselves well placed to respond to
this new opportunity. My representatives met many times with officials
of the PRC. Since renewing our contacts in 2002, we have had six rounds
of talks. However, on the fundamental issue, there has been no concrete
result at all. Nevertheless, as I have declared many times, I remain
firmly committed to the Middle Way approach and reiterate here my
willingness to continue to pursue the process of dialogue.

This year the Chinese people are proudly and eagerly awaiting the
opening of the Olympic Games. I have, from the start, supported
Beijing's being awarded the opportunity to host the Games. My position
remains unchanged. China has the world's largest population, a long
history and an extremely rich civilization. Today, due to her impressive
economic progress, she is emerging as a great power. This is certainly
to be welcomed. But China also needs to earn the respect and esteem of
the global community through the establishment of an open and harmonious society based on the principles of transparency, freedom, and the rule of law. For example, to this day victims of the Tiananmen Square tragedy that adversely affected the lives of so many Chinese citizens have received neither just redress nor any official response. Similarly, when thousands of ordinary Chinese in rural areas suffer injustice at the
hands of exploitative and corrupt local officials, their legitimate
complaints are either ignored or met with aggression. I express these
concerns both as a fellow human being and as someone who is prepared to consider himself a member of the large family that is the People's
Republic of China. In this respect, I appreciate and support President
Hu Jintao's policy of creating a "harmonious society", but this can only
arise on the basis of mutual trust and an atmosphere of freedom,
including freedom of speech and the rule of law. I strongly believe that
if these values are embraced, many important problems relating to
minority nationalities can be resolved, such as the issue of Tibet, as
well as Eastern Turkistan, and Inner Mongolia, where the native people
now constitute only 20% of a total population of 24 million.

*the last two paragraphs are in the post below as this post reached the limit.*

[TangerZ]

I had hoped President Hu Jintao's recent statement that the stability
and safety of Tibet concerns the stability and safety of the country
might herald the dawning of a new era for the resolution of the problem
of Tibet. It is unfortunate that despite my sincere efforts not to
separate Tibet from China, the leaders of the PRC continue to accuse me
of being a "separatist". Similarly, when Tibetans in Lhasa and many
other areas spontaneously protested to express their deep-rooted
resentment, the Chinese authorities immediately accused me of having
orchestrated their demonstrations. I have called for a thorough
investigation by a respected body to look into this allegation.

Chinese brothers and sisters - wherever you may be - with deep concern I appeal to you to help dispel the misunderstandings between our two
communities. Moreover, I appeal to you to help us find a peaceful,
lasting solution to the problem of Tibet through dialogue in the spirit
of understanding and accommodation.

With my prayers,

Dalai Lama

[TangerZ]

To the posters who are discussing their experiences about the changes in China, and who underscore the difference in values and such, yes, I agree that China has changed quite a bit. Nevertheless, in the field of human rights they are still severely lacking, particularly in Tibet. Tibet, you must understand, is treated distinctly from the rest of China. Young Tibetans, who can now travel to Shanghai and Beijing, see some of the gradual changes in freedom there (albeit still not up to international standards), and come back to Tibet realizing how little freedom the Tibetans have. This is something all people travelling and living in China must recognize. The policies and treatment of the people is not uniform across China.

[RT14]

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

Tiananmen Square.

Yeah like I said, STILL oppressive communist. That was 20 years ago under a different leadership. Things change in 20 years in case you hadn't realized. I understand fully and completely that they are still a communist government but IMO they have the interests of the people and China's future as a whole. They are not in power to take over the world or any other piece of land for that matter, just to retain what they have. While I don't agree with the ways in which they go about keeping them, who are we to tell them they can't keep their own land? Did they have any say with Quebec?

I'm pretty left wing, but even I don't think that countries should be employing people. Companies should be doing that. The free market in China is controlled by an oppressive government, which is why you have 4 dudes sharing one job.

So I give one example of government jobs and one of a mostly private sector and you single out the government jobs and say "Companies should be doing that." Have you ever been here? There are hundreds of thousand of companies not controlled by the government. How can you give them crap for trying to help out as best they can? Should they do nothing and have more unemployment?

No, they do everything they can to stay in power and keep the Chinese people on a leash. Day to day individual freedom counts for jack squat when the government can bulldoze your house to make way for a new olympic venue, and you don't have compensation or recourse.

Again, completely misinformed arguments on your behalf. I have talked personally to many owners of houses or condos, some of which have had their property bought out by the government for different reasons and they were all compensated at full market value.

I'm sorry you think so little of the Chinese people. Essentially they are so stupid that they couldn't govern themselves? Unlike every other democracy on earth (regardless of size)?

Where do I say I think so little of Chinese people. My wife and newborn daughter are Chinese and I take offense to that you ignorant, know-it-all POS! To think I actually agreed with some of what you've written in the past. What I'm saying, in case you missed it, is that they are working towards getting the population prepared to move in that direction. My guess is that they don't want to become the next America run by idiots and want to ensure it's done right. God forbid them of learning from other people's mistakes. I never once said a bad thing about the people as I have a lot of respect for them and what they've been through to get where they are at now.

The vote counts may have been scandalous and untrustworthy, but at least the American people got to learn that they were scandalous and untrustworthy. Unlike China where you don't even have access to google.

Well you're half right this time, but I'm sorry, I use Google everyday thank you very much. Google.ca in fact! There are a few sites that are blocked, yes, but obviously they don't sensor too much or I wouldn't be writing in this thread ridiculing their government now would I? What you're right about is they do sensor the news here and don't give the full story or pitch it in a way that makes themselves sound good, but is that really so different than the American media? I know I've heard of a few stories where the government influences their stories as well, but that's another topic altogether. I'm sure they don't change them as much as here, but not telling it exactly like it is whether it be for better ratings or whatever, is not proper journalism.

Scary indeed. Imagine if democracy came to India too! Or Japan, or Taiwan, or South Korea! My God! All those dumb Asians running around voting and crap!

Sure India is a democratic government, but do the Indian people live better lives on average? If so, explain to me why there are 10's of thousands of Indian people living in just this one city that I live in now? Why do so many move here, while so few Chinese move there?

China spends 4.3% of it's GDP on military spending. The US only spends 4%.
World Factbook

The Chinese have dramatically upped the amount they spend on the military every year since 2000. Link

Wow, I really thought you were smarter than that. http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolit...e/Spending.asp
So it appears America has increased the MOST of anyone over these past years and still spends nearly TWICE as much as ALL the other countries in the world combined. Yeah, you're right though. China with their history of wars fighting for more land and MUCH lower military spending is a serious threat. Not like those Yanks who are clearly not trying to start wars anywhere in the world.

Welcome to the first world. Maybe someday ALL the kids in China will have access to school, instead of just 90%, and they can catch up to American literacy rates (99%) https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/ch.html

Yeah, maybe! I think that's kinda their goal in fact. Good argument.

Does that include murdering student protesters with tanks (Tiananmen) claiming other countries belong to you (Tibet, Taiwan), imprisoning people for having children ("One Child" policy)?

Again, long time ago and while teaching English to children a few years back here, I met more than a hundred families with more than 1 child. Even my wife's low income brother and his wife have two children and they have yet to be imprisoned for it. Don't think it's quite as serious as you make it out to be there Mr. Misinformation.

And China is more "imperfect" than most.

[/QUOTE] You stated it so it must be fact.

From Hoz
Let me guess....you just started living there, have a huge apartment/house, don't speak a lick of any of the 8 main Chinese dialects and have a maid that does the shopping for the food?

Right?

Lots of ridiculous unintelligent slanders being thrown my way for sharing an opinion today hey?

1) Lived here 5 years as stated previously...try reading the post if you want to respond.
2) Have a nice but not huge apartment by any means, but always nice of you to assume something when you have no idea. Maybe you don't know the phrase concerning "assume".
3) Speak quite a bit of Mandarin and my wife speaks Mandarin, now English, her home province language and a small amount of Cantonese. Again, you and your assuming! lol
4) Have never had a maid in the five years I've lived here, but do have two small dogs and a newborn daughter. (I know I already posted that I have a daughter, but you probably won't have read that).

Anything else?

I honestly can't believe the amount of backlash and pure hatred sounding remarks I got from stating my opinion from what I've seen in China so far. Thought I would just give fellow CPers a Canadians side who lives here, but I must apologize for that I guess. So, I'm sorry I stated what I believe.

[CubicleGeek]

Originally Posted by RT14

Again, long time ago and while teaching English to children a few years back here, I met more than a hundred families with more than 1 child. Even my wife's low income brother and his wife have two children and they have yet to be imprisoned for it. Don't think it's quite as serious as you make it out to be there Mr. Misinformation.

It is definitely not as harsh as stated. I believe that the 2nd child results in a fine and also is not permitted for social services (i.e. subsidized education and etc.). If you're wealthy you can really have as many as you want, as long as you can support them. I only know of one extreme case where a coworker's mother-in-law was forced to get her tubes tied upon having her 5th child (she kept trying to get a boy and she eventually did). But it still didn't result in imprisonment.

One quirky law however, is the fining of women who conceive without getting married. Basically if you're not married and you're found to have child the woman get's slapped with a fine (presumably, because it's pretty definitive evidence that it's her's and the male portion of the crime will/should at some point will bare some of the responsibility). But who are we to talk when we live in a society where you can sue for burning yourself with hot coffee.

[HotHotHeat]

What exactly about China is communist? They're some sort of mix between capitalist and socialist, and corrupt. Not sure that's an ideology though.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

What exactly about China is communist? They're some sort of mix between capitalist and socialist, and corrupt. Not sure that's an ideology though.

It's an authoritarian state with brief excursions into totalitarianism. See Cultural Revolution.

We're probably seeing some glimpses of the true nature of the state in their actions in Tibet.

[The Yen Man]

Lots of ridiculous unintelligent slanders being thrown my way for sharing an opinion today hey?

1) Lived here 5 years as stated previously...try reading the post if you want to respond.
2) Have a nice but not huge apartment by any means, but always nice of you to assume something when you have no idea. Maybe you don't know the phrase concerning "assume".
3) Speak quite a bit of Mandarin and my wife speaks Mandarin, now English, her home province language and a small amount of Cantonese. Again, you and your assuming! lol
4) Have never had a maid in the five years I've lived here, but do have two small dogs and a newborn daughter. (I know I already posted that I have a daughter, but you probably won't have read that).

Anything else?

I honestly can't believe the amount of backlash and pure hatred sounding remarks I got from stating my opinion from what I've seen in China so far. Thought I would just give fellow CPers a Canadians side who lives here, but I must apologize for that I guess. So, I'm sorry I stated what I believe.

Good post. I mean, you can disagree with this poster if you want, but at least he's giving his perspective from experience rather than all these armchair posters, who's never been to China, but feel the need to criticize China, with their knowledge purely from the media or what the heard from other people.

Yes, we can disagree on the treatment of Tibet. But I swear some people here (and I only say some) are using this thread as an opportunity to bash Chinese culture and Chinese way of life in general.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Good post. I mean, you can disagree with this poster if you want, but at least he's giving his perspective from experience rather than all these armchair posters, who's never been to China, but feel the need to criticize China, with their knowledge purely from the media or what the heard from other people.

Yes, we can disagree on the treatment of Tibet. But I swear some people here (and I only say some) are using this thread as an opportunity to bash Chinese culture and Chinese way of life in general.

Well, I personally would like to differentiate my criticism between the Chinese State and the Chinese people. My long-term girlfriend is Chinese, from the South, and has quite a traditional/cultural family. I feel pretty privileged to be experience some of their holiday/family traditions and I definitely respect all that I see.

The deference to authority is a little hard to take, but I can look past it.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by RT14

As a Canadian living in China for the last 5 years, I have to say that some of the ideas about China being throw around are just silly, but also reflect some of the things I thought of China before moving here. To be honest, it makes me question just how good our education system is when we learn so little, and what little we do learn is severely flawed, about one of the major countries in the world.

Good post, RT14, good post. The ignorance to the Chinese culture in this thread is absolutely mind boggling. JohnnyFlame made a very good post earlier in this thread about his experience moving to China in the past 10 years as well. Funny that the 2 people on CP that actually live in China have stood up and had nothing but positive things to say about the direction China is headed. Conversely, those ones saying "everytime I think China is taking a step forward, they take 10 steps back" are coming from Alberta, Canada.

Are they a utopia, and all roses and lollipops? Absolutely not. However, they are in a transition between a developing country to a world power, and many here fail to embrace the fact that a new dominant culture is having more and more influence in the world.

China is improving in alot of areas. Human rights are improving, although they are not up to par with the Western World. Environmental considerations, China has taken huge leaps and bounds into concerning in the past year (see the proposal for the eco-city Dongtan). Education, just look at the researchers and businessman in the world. I sat on a committee of a technical society of over 200,000 members which has historically been North-American based, with one of the topics being Asian interests - Asia is largely believed to be the biggest player to this society within 5 years (keeping in mind this society has historically been American-dominant) and resources would be allocated to supported this Asian interest. I went to a lecture yesterday on Cognative Radio Networks given by a researcher from India (now at UBC) and at the talk, there were over 70 attendee's, over 40 of them were Asian. There is alot of knowledge there. Their economy in the past 10 years has grown faster then any other country in history. (In 2006, they were the second largest economy int he world behind the USA) The infrustructure change from 10 years ago in Beijing (when I was there) to now, well you can barely tell its the same city. Look at developments of their tourism in Guilin. Look at how long it took for Las Vegas to grow, and look at how long it took for Macau to go (I attended MGM Grand Macau's opening 3 months ago).

China has tons of knowledge, skill, , resources and obviously, population. They have the means, the resource, the talent and the opportunity to be the world's most powerful country. Their international relations, the primary concern of this thread (and I do feel for those Tibet victims, but looking at the big picture) is just as what one would expect or worse then major world players (USA, England, etc) China still has things to work on, but they are getting there, and fast.

To HOZ, those are attitudes I brought up that internationals would have towards North Americans, not specifically China to Canada. Canada is known as one of the most polite countries in the world.

Flash, I generally like you as a power, but I don't think you could be any more wrong in your thoughts. USA government spending at 4%? Seriously, you think that? Look at the funding pumped into Sandia US National Reasearch Labs. Or Lawrence Livermore. How about the Iraq war? You seriously think China spends more on military after budgeting approx $50B for the Iraq war, and spending trillions? (ref: Lanny's thread earlier on this OT forum) Literacy? The biggest concern in the USA, to me, is education (or lackthereof). I think you are very mistaken if you think Americans are more educated then the Chinese. The Chinese may be a little stick-up-the-ass, but their education - and you only have to look at educational institues to see the talent - is light years better then North Americans. You think they run inefficiently? To give you a small sample, when I was in Guilin China, my passport was processed in less then 10 seconds (as opposed to a minute here). At the Guilin airport, the passport officer (is that what they are called?) had a "rate my efficiency" and for processing my passport in less then 10 seconds, she was given a 1/4 (i.e. very poor).

Communism? Mostly by political, not economics. Their economics is like a capitalist society (from my impressions). Two major players in the world, Hong Kong and Macau, run almost independently under the control of China.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Good post. I mean, you can disagree with this poster if you want, but at least he's giving his perspective from experience rather than all these armchair posters, who's never been to China, but feel the need to criticize China, with their knowledge purely from the media or what the heard from other people.

Yes, we can disagree on the treatment of Tibet. But I swear some people here (and I only say some) are using this thread as an opportunity to bash Chinese culture and Chinese way of life in general.

Thats exactly how I feel

The treatment of Tibet is sad, but I think people have taken this as some sort of an opportunity to bash the Chinese society as a whole. The funny thing is I heard very similar (note: not the same) stories about American treatment to Cubans when I visited a non-tourest town of Cuba last year. And their leverage over Tibet is very similar to the treatment of Cambodia in the 1970s from the education history I have come to learn about in my time in Phnom Penh, Cambodia, 3 months ago.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by RT14

Lots of ridiculous unintelligent slanders being thrown my way for sharing an opinion today hey?

1) Lived here 5 years as stated previously...try reading the post if you want to respond.
2) Have a nice but not huge apartment by any means, but always nice of you to assume something when you have no idea. Maybe you don't know the phrase concerning "assume".
3) Speak quite a bit of Mandarin and my wife speaks Mandarin, now English, her home province language and a small amount of Cantonese. Again, you and your assuming! lol
4) Have never had a maid in the five years I've lived here, but do have two small dogs and a newborn daughter. (I know I already posted that I have a daughter, but you probably won't have read that).

Anything else?

I honestly can't believe the amount of backlash and pure hatred sounding remarks I got from stating my opinion from what I've seen in China so far. Thought I would just give fellow CPers a Canadians side who lives here, but I must apologize for that I guess. So, I'm sorry I stated what I believe.

I guess I made a bad guess but then I was thinking while I was reading your post, "Either this guy is walking through life with his eyes closed or just got there and is living through the early "wow" factor of living in a new country." Either or I think you are living in a vacuum. And really if you come on and post something and people disagree with you and call you on a point...it ain't hate. Grow up.

[RT14]

Originally Posted by HOZ

I guess I made a bad guess but then I was thinking while I was reading your post, "Either this guy is walking through life with his eyes closed or just got there and is living through the early "wow" factor of living in a new country." Either or I think you are living in a vacuum. And really if you come on and post something and people disagree with you and call you on a point...it ain't hate. Grow up.

Calling me on a point is all fine and dandy, as I think I backed that up just fine. It's your ridiculous assumptions I have a problem with. Living in a vacuum? Pot, meet kettle. Maybe you should "grow up" and explore other avenues of your information other than just what the North American media jams down your throat. The media is biased no matter where it's from as far as I've seen.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

To HOZ, those are attitudes I brought up that internationals would have towards North Americans, not specifically China to Canada.

Well the question was for Chinese only. From China.


As for displays of ignorance of China.....I guess any and all criticisms of China is ignorance?

The economy of China has greatly improved. Unfortunately, 900 million peasants outside of the towers of Beijing and Shanghai have had their lives only minutely improved but at a cost. Air, water and food quality is horrendous by any standards. China is going through the industrial revolution. Pick up a history book and see what it is like. That said. Communist China is an incredibly corrupt, brutal regime that subjugates its people that don't fall into line, sensors its media for obvious reasons, and intimidates it's neighbours economically and militarily.

People unable to see this are the ignorant ones or simply willfully blind. Not the people criticising China.

I suggest people read Will the Boat Sink the Water. Banned in China so youknow it must be good!!!