China needs to chill out. Big time.

[Phanuthier]

Aside from normtwofinger ... how many people have actually been to China in the past 2 years?

Of those, how many have been there 10+ years ago and within the past 2 years?

If you don't think they are making giant steps forward... think again. I was in China 10 years ago and 3 months ago, I could barely tell it was the same country if it wasn't for all the Chinese people there. You might not like their customs, but they think North American customs are stupid and rude too.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Aside from normtwofinger ... how many people have actually been to China in the past 2 years?

Of those, how many have been there 10+ years ago and within the past 2 years?

If you don't think they are making giant steps forward... think again. I was in China 10 years ago and 3 months ago, I could barely tell it was the same country if it wasn't for all the Chinese people there. You might not like their customs, but they think North American customs are stupid and rude too.

I have been there. And yes the cities have made giant leaps. There is little doubt that China is making improvements. They are still stuck in the industrial age 150 or more years ago.

As for their customs....hmmm, since China is not one homogeneous mass......habits would be better....lets make a choice shall we? Its call thinking and making a value judgment (discriminating).

Which habits of ours do they think is rude, or disgusting, or stupid?

When you answer this I will tell you which habits of theirs I think are disgusting and rude.

[HOZ]

China's charm offensive gets derailed...

Monks stage demonstration

Good for them.....hopefully they survive.


In relation....

China's Spin Campaign

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by HOZ

When you answer this I will tell you which habits of theirs I think are disgusting and rude.

You're right, we don't have any.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

You're right, we don't have any.

No, seriously, what kind of customs do you think we Canadians have that can be considered rude?

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Azure

No, seriously, what kind of customs do you think we Canadians have that can be considered rude?

Just off the top of my head, what they could find rude et al include

• professionalism of students in schools (sleeping in class, slouching, etc)
• attitudes towards authoritative figures (teachers, cops, etc)
• slow drivers in the left lane... heh
• attitudes of "don't care" employees that don't take responsibility for their work
• business attire and attitudes (i.e. different customs)
• treatment of elders (i.e. sending them to old folks home)
• tolerance of children being rude
• table manners (differ from country to country)
• possibly use of inappropriate words in a derogatory manner... gay, lame, ######ed (personally this bothers me the most)

Note that I grew up in Canada myself so they arn't a concern of mine (except the last point - that really bothers me, but I digress), just pointing ones I could see a foreigner seeing.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Just off the top of my head, what they could find rude et al include

• professionalism of students in schools (sleeping in class, slouching, etc)
• attitudes towards authoritative figures (teachers, cops, etc)
• slow drivers in the left lane... heh
• attitudes of "don't care" employees that don't take responsibility for their work
• business attire and attitudes (i.e. different customs)
• treatment of elders (i.e. sending them to old folks home)
• possibly use of inappropriate words in a derogatory manner... gay, lame, ######ed (personally this bothers me the most)

Note that I grew up in Canada myself so they arn't a concern of mine (except the last point - that really bothers me, but I digress), just pointing ones I could see a foreigner seeing.

Strange. I've lived here basically my whole life and I don't do any of the above.

Must be the whole small-town thing.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Just off the top of my head, what they could find rude et al include

• professionalism of students in schools (sleeping in class, slouching, etc)
  
• attitudes towards authoritative figures (teachers, cops, etc)
• slow drivers in the left lane... heh
• attitudes of "don't care" employees that don't take responsibility for their work
• business attire and attitudes (i.e. different customs)
• treatment of elders (i.e. sending them to old folks home)
• tolerance of children being rude
• table manners (differ from country to country)
• possibly use of inappropriate words in a derogatory manner... gay, lame, ######ed (personally this bothers me the most)

Note that I grew up in Canada myself so they arn't a concern of mine (except the last point - that really bothers me, but I digress), just pointing ones I could see a foreigner seeing.

This one isn't all bad.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by peter12

This one isn't all bad.

Other then the last bullet, I don't think you can say any single one is bad.

At the same time, recognize you are in another culture and society that doesn't follow your countries customs.

[CubicleGeek]

On the topic of press censorship, I did an experiment a few years ago concerning the "tankman" picture. It is the picture of the man standing in front of a column of tanks during the infamous Tiananmen Square incident in 1989. I had heard somewhere that a majority of the people in China would have no reference whatsoever of what that picture means and when it was taken. In the non-censored world, it is probably one of the strongest symbols of the fight for freedom of speech we've seen in recent history. Here is the picture, if you don't know what I am talking about: http://www.hemmy.net/images/interesting/tankman.jpg.

I brought a copy of the picture with me on a laptop when I went to work in China a few years ago and after making friends with some of my coworkers, I took opportune times to show them the picture to get their reaction. Of the 4 different coworkers I showed, no one had seen this picture before, the typical reaction I got was "Wah, that's cool!", "Is it from a movie?". These are all people with Master's and Ph.D. level education and good family backgrounds that have had access to things like internet and are among the scholarly elite in China. As a matter of fact, the entire incident has been painted in their minds as a bunch of rebellious students rioting in Beijing with the military being the good guys.

[normtwofinger]

Their culture worries so much about saving face (embarrassment). After observing them in public and on the political stage, they are doing a really bad job of it.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by normtwofinger

Their culture worries so much about saving face (embarrassment). After observing them in public and on the political stage, they are doing a really bad job of it.

And how has the Western World ever done in that? USA in Iraq? England and god knows how many countires?

What did the USA do when Cuba didn't want the USA to turn Cuba into a country of whores and drugs? Trade embargo and try to turn them into a 3rd world country. And take Gauantonomo Bay (sp?) and turn it into their land when they wish to abuse human rights. (They do a good job of covering that up too)

(I know I pick on the USA alot, its just that its easier to come up with examples for them given their recent dominance over the world in the past century. Nothing against the USA, heck I plan on moving there...)

[Azure]

Why do you always deflect the issue onto what the US did/does?

Since when is this about the United States?

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Azure

Why do you always deflect the issue onto what the US did/does?

Since when is this about the United States?

Used as a comparison, and the USA is used since its an easy reference as I said in the last sentence, in brackets.

Merely to give some perspective, since the tone I'm getting from this thread is that China is outrageous in their manners, international affairs, human rights etc as if North America is so much greater that we are to give advice and dictate how their countries should be ran.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by Azure

Strange. I've lived here basically my whole life and I don't do any of the above.

Must be the whole small-town thing.

Forgive me for going off topic, but I'm somewhat sensitive about drive-by smears against small towns. I've lived roughly have my life in small town Alberta and half of it in Calgary, and I don't see that being the case. If anything, the items on that list might be a little more prevalent in large urban centres than small towns. They're certainly no worse in small towns.

Back on topic ... just had to stick up for small towns.

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Used as a comparison, and the USA is used since its an easy reference as I said in the last sentence, in brackets.

Merely to give some perspective, since the tone I'm getting from this thread is that China is outrageous in their manners, international affairs, human rights etc as if North America is so much greater that we are to give advice and dictate how their countries should be ran.

What are you referring to? I'm not disagreeing at all - North America, and Western World for that matter isn't exactly a place of perfection. I guess the difference for me here is that they're going about this whole situation with such a sense of arrogance, and then parading through our streets championing their muscle against a country like Tibet. Seems kinda stuck up if you ask me.

No we're not perfect, but if you want to start accusing North America of it's wrongs, go ahead. Doesn't make our anger unjustified.

[Dorkmaster]

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20...nt_7856372.htm
http://www.asianinfo.org/asianinfo/t...ro-history.htm
http://www.rangzen.com/history/views.htm
http://www.tibet.org/Why/

Some interesting views ranging from the Chinese POV to the Tibetan POV. Cudos to Tibetan posters bringing some of their views to the table.

Although I have not investigated the situation thoroughly, just from a quick look it would seem as though the situation loosely mirrors the situation with Canada and Quebec or Aboriginals only handled in a different fashion.

I feel that China is mishandling the situation, but it is understandable in ways. Tibet is very important to China strategically and needs to hold on to it. The approach to handling the situation however feels very backward in such forceful ways to quell the uprisings. It seems barbaric due to the rapid social advancements in the West when to more developing countries it may not be seen as such.

Which brings me to my second thought. It is unnecessary to blast Chinese social behavior as a whole. There society is just radically different from ours. There's some social lag and there's also the fact that they have a millions people crammed together.

Btw. I'm pretty sure Tibetan Buddhism (Lamaism) and other forms of Buddhism are rather different.

I'm curious how this will all unfold and how the Olympics will turn out.

[RT14]

As a Canadian living in China for the last 5 years, I have to say that some of the ideas about China being throw around are just silly, but also reflect some of the things I thought of China before moving here. To be honest, it makes me question just how good our education system is when we learn so little, and what little we do learn is severely flawed, about one of the major countries in the world.

The idea that China is still a communist oppresive government is quite ridiculous actually. Yes, the wages here are very low for most Chinese citizens, and yes, they don't have a democratic government, but there's a damn good reason for it all - THERE'S 1.3 BILLION PEOPLE HERE!

What country in the world today would be able to employ that many people with well paid jobs? They do everything they can to create work for people just to keep employment up. There's jobs here that would never exist in the Western world because there's really no need for it. For example, I went to get my Visa renewed and the payment process was done by 4 different people at the police station. One took the money, one stamped the paper, one peeled the papers apart to give me my receipt and one filed the government portion. That's a one person job split into four, and that's just one small example. Look at the difference in contruction sites between Canada and China: Canada - 10 guys and 4 or 5 machines. China - 100 guys and 1 machine. On top of that, the cost of living if you're willing to eat Chinese food everyday is incredibly low here, so if you've got a job you can survive just fine.

As for not being a democratic government, there's just no way on god's green earth that would fly here whatsoever. Already in America, you can see first hand how having a relatively poorly educated population voting in the leader of the "most powerful" nation in the world works out - you get the highly intelligent and always entertaining G.W. Bush running the show after some of the most scandalous and untrustworthy vote counts I've ever seen. So how would a country with this big of a population of even less educated (majority speaking) people work? Could you imagine having BOTH the most powerful countries in the world run by idiots?....scary!

The fact is, while the American education system continues to spiral downward as they focus more on military spending, the Chinese education system has been steadily increasing in funding and widespread availability for ALL to take advantage of. Kids who come from poor families and thought they would never get to go to school are being offered free schooling in remote and rural areas. China realizes the future of their country rests with their children (something America seems to have forgotten) and are doing their best to give them the best future possible.

To be completely honest, while I don't trust any government in this entire world 100% (or even 65% for that matter), I trust that the Chinese government is doing more to build a positive future for their people than America is doing....a lot more! You just can't change a country with this many people all so deeply routed with thousands of years of traditions and cultures, to change overnight. It takes decades. And at this point we're really only seeing the first couple steps towards creating a country that will probably be the envy of most down the road.

Don't get me wrong, I rag on China a fair bit myself and sometimes I see things here where I just stop and think "What the f@&# are they thinking?", but at the same time I know that for the most part, the things they do today that seem strange or even barbaric are done for the good of the nation and it's future. It can't be too bad for the people here when you talk to hundreds of them and 99.9% are the most patriotic people I've ever met.

I didn't want to start writing this because I knew I would go on forever, but I haven't even scratched the surface of what I've come to understand and respect about the Chinese and their ways. It would take far too long to get into every detail of everything I've learned here. I hope this gives people some sort of idea of what it's like though.

Sorry, I must add that I realize this isn't what the initial topic was about and appologize for that. In regards to Tibet, China is really screwing this whole situation up imo and has taken it in the wrong direction but no country is perfect.

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by RT14

The idea that China is still a communist oppresive government is quite ridiculous actually.

Tiananmen Square.

What country in the world today would be able to employ that many people with well paid jobs?

I'm pretty left wing, but even I don't think that countries should be employing people. Companies should be doing that. The free market in China is controlled by an oppressive government, which is why you have 4 dudes sharing one job.

They do everything they can to create work for people just to keep employment up.

No, they do everything they can to stay in power and keep the Chinese people on a leash. Day to day individual freedom counts for jack squat when the government can bulldoze your house to make way for a new olympic venue, and you don't have compensation or recourse.

As for not being a democratic government, there's just no way on god's green earth that would fly here whatsoever.

I'm sorry you think so little of the Chinese people. Essentially they are so stupid that they couldn't govern themselves? Unlike every other democracy on earth (regardless of size)?

Already in America, you can see first hand how having a relatively poorly educated population voting in the leader of the "most powerful" nation in the world works out - you get the highly intelligent and always entertaining G.W. Bush running the show after some of the most scandalous and untrustworthy vote counts I've ever seen.

The vote counts may have been scandalous and untrustworthy, but at least the American people got to learn that they were scandalous and untrustworthy. Unlike China where you don't even have access to google.

So how would a country with this big of a population of even less educated (majority speaking) people work? Could you imagine having BOTH the most powerful countries in the world run by idiots?....scary!

Scary indeed. Imagine if democracy came to India too! Or Japan, or Taiwan, or South Korea! My God! All those dumb Asians running around voting and crap!

The fact is, while the American education system continues to spiral downward as they focus more on military spending, the Chinese education system has been steadily increasing in funding and widespread availability for ALL to take advantage of.

LOL

China spends 4.3% of it's GDP on military spending. The US only spends 4%.
World Factbook

The Chinese have dramatically upped the amount they spend on the military every year since 2000. Link

Kids who come from poor families and thought they would never get to go to school are being offered free schooling in remote and rural areas. China realizes the future of their country rests with their children (something America seems to have forgotten) and are doing their best to give them the best future possible.

Welcome to the first world. Maybe someday ALL the kids in China will have access to school, instead of just 90%, and they can catch up to American literacy rates (99%) https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/ch.html

To be completely honest, while I don't trust any government in this entire world 100% (or even 65% for that matter), I trust that the Chinese government is doing more to build a positive future for their people than America is doing....a lot more!

Does that include murdering student protesters with tanks (Tiananmen) claiming other countries belong to you (Tibet, Taiwan), imprisoning people for having children ("One Child" policy)?

You just can't change a country with this many people all so deeply routed with thousands of years of traditions and cultures, to change overnight. It takes decades.

Japan did it pretty quickly.

In regards to Tibet, China is really screwing this whole situation up imo and has taken it in the wrong direction but no country is perfect.

And China is more "imperfect" than most.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Used as a comparison, and the USA is used since its an easy reference as I said in the last sentence, in brackets.

Merely to give some perspective, since the tone I'm getting from this thread is that China is outrageous in their manners, international affairs, human rights etc as if North America is so much greater that we are to give advice and dictate how their countries should be ran.

China is outrageous in their manners, international affairs, human rights, etc, etc.

Again, what does that have to do with the US? Most of us don't even live there.