FEB 3 Superbowl XLII

[burn_baby_burn]

Who was it from the Patriots that tried to poke Jacobs in the eye in the week 17 game?

[habernac]

you'll have to refresh my memory, but what has Harrison done to make him one of the "worst humans". Yes, I agree that he plays with a certain degree of nastiness (as do a number of effective defenders in this league).

[habernac]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

Who was it from the Patriots that tried to poke Jacobs in the eye in the week 17 game?

That was Vince Wilfork, I was very disappointed when I saw that.

[Flames in 07]

oh yea, the eye gauging. another reason to respect them less.

Anyway as for #37:
http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...h_scandal.html

I could have picked a million links on this topic, this is about him knowing cheating by taking HGH ... cheating on purpose.

and a 'certain degree of nastiness' is a very splendid way of saying dirty.

Look, you like them, that's fine. I know you go back to the pencil neck days or before ... great. But even you have to admit there's a nice list of things to be ashamed off once we all stop thinking of the prefect record for a second ... and even if not, you can't get to twisted up when other people don't respect them much (outside of their record)

[habernac]

show me a football team that has only really nice people on it. It doesn't happen. It's a violent sport that attracts some people who are only in it to hurt others. I figured you had something more on Harrison than he took HGH. At least he had the sack to admit it as such.

[Flames in 07]

I can show you plenty of teams that don't have convicted HGH users on it if you like.

And there is no 'at least' he cheated on purpose. So if I purposely rig the footballs Brady uses to throw so that they go off target on purpose, ensuring that they lose in Glendale but then admit it after I get caught people will say, well, at least he had the sack to admit it?

To common themes to me are winning and cheating. It's tough to deny either of them. I don't like the winning one much, and you don't like the cheating one much ... oh well.

The back and forth about the dolphins fan denial that this years streak is more impressive and/or pats fans denial of cheating just seems so pointless to me.

I guess with 13 days of hype and discussion we'd need something to talk about I suppose.

[burn_baby_burn]

Personally I don't have a problem with the Patriots. For me it isn't any fun to cheer for a double digit favorite in the Super Bowl, unless it was the Kansas City Chiefs (then I would be worried about them blowing it). Did the Spygate controversy help them go undefeated? I doubt it. The only real problem I had with it was the way the NFL was so quick to put it behind them. I don't think the league wanted to tarnish its image with the suspicion of a cheating dynasty. Three Super Bowls by three points. Did they cheat in those games? I wouldn't have a clue. But there is definitely some suspicion there and probably allways will be.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

Personally I don't have a problem with the Patriots. For me it isn't any fun to cheer for a double digit favorite in the Super Bowl, unless it was the Kansas City Chiefs (then I would be worried about them blowing it). Did the Spygate controversy help them go undefeated? I doubt it. The only real problem I had with it was the way the NFL was so quick to put it behind them. I don't think the league wanted to tarnish its image with the suspicion of a cheating dynasty. Three Super Bowls by three points. Did they cheat in those games? I wouldn't have a clue. But there is definitely some suspicion there and probably allways will be.

Completely agree, it would not sound nice on the commemorative DVD that we will see on sale at 10pm Feb 3.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

I can show you plenty of teams that don't have convicted HGH users on it if you like.

And there is no 'at least' he cheated on purpose. So if I purposely rig the footballs Brady uses to throw so that they go off target on purpose, ensuring that they lose in Glendale but then admit it after I get caught people will say, well, at least he had the sack to admit it?

To common themes to me are winning and cheating. It's tough to deny either of them. I don't like the winning one much, and you don't like the cheating one much ... oh well.

The back and forth about the dolphins fan denial that this years streak is more impressive and/or pats fans denial of cheating just seems so pointless to me.

I guess with 13 days of hype and discussion we'd need something to talk about I suppose.

That's because there's also no reliable test for it, every team has HGH users on it.

[Flames in 07]

any proof of that? Or can we just start to deal with the reality that maybe the patriots consistently knowingly break the rules.

It's probably not the reason they are undefeated but jeez, you have to try pretty hard to ignore the obvious warts that make it hard to respect the team, from eye gouging to dancing on another teams logo to HGH suspensions to unprecidented fines and draft pick penalty for knowingly cheating.

[KTown]

Originally Posted by habernac

Still bitter, eh? Aren't you the same guy who said Welker was a bit player as well? Better luck next year.....

Funny stuff, welker is a product of the system he's in.

He's not as good as his numbers. He's an excellent player but when you have Moss and Stallworth getting double covered that leaves one - one with Welker, and most of the time thats the 4th best CB or a linebacker.

It is what it is, am I bitter now, but I will laugh if the Pats lose.

Not so long ago the Pats where the worst team in the NFL, every team has its highs and lows.

Sooner or later the pats will be a terrible team, it will happen. And i'm sure the dolphins will be spanking the pats then.

I tell you won't I don't gloat like you, and the fact that 95% of you wouldn't even show your face if your team was horrid will show how much of a fan you are then.

If you come around 10 years down the road and the Pats are a crap team and your still cheer for them I will be shocked!

[CaptainCrunch]

Not to derail this facinating argument about the evils that are the Patriots, but some interesting articles about HGH in the NFL and how there are no reliable tests to detect it.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/footb...comments_x.htm

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...47_page3.shtml

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=6211246

Its naive to call one player evil because he admited to the use of HGH, the evil players are the ones that are taking advantage of the NFL's inability to test for it.

[KTown]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Pats all the way baby!!

Brady with a cast doesnt matter anyways...he doesnt do more than drop back and pass...his O'line will give him all day to pick the Giants apart.

I find all of the hate for the Pats to be...amusing...for years/decades we were the patsies...everyones fave stomping team. Now that the shoe is on the other foot its all about how arrogant the Pats are? Blow it out your arse! The Pats will remain dominant for many years.

Spygate has proven to be nothing more than a whole bunch of hoopla...nada...nitsch...BS. Anyone who hangs on to that is pulling at strings. The Pats are the most dominant team...ever....and that includes the rotting corpse once called the Dolphins.

It may be but so is saying the dolphins 72 feat is not as good as this because of the teams they played is a crock of . Every week you saw in the NFL potenital upsets.

Both feats are astounishing. I'm impressed by the Patsies, what Im not impressed is the influx of fans that all of a sudden call themselves long time Patsie fans. Whether thats you or not I will never know,

But the fact that I still support my dolphins after these last 5 years shows how pationate I am about my fins. I watch every dolphins game. I will be in Denver to watch the Fish play next year as well. The fact that you kick a fan when hes down for cheering for the fish is just wrong, why should I jump on the patsie wagon?

[habernac]

Originally Posted by KTown

Funny stuff, welker is a product of the system he's in.

He's not as good as his numbers. He's an excellent player but when you have Moss and Stallworth getting double covered that leaves one - one with Welker, and most of the time thats the 4th best CB or a linebacker.

It is what it is, am I bitter now, but I will laugh if the Pats lose.

Not so long ago the Pats where the worst team in the NFL, every team has its highs and lows.

Sooner or later the pats will be a terrible team, it will happen. And i'm sure the dolphins will be spanking the pats then.

I tell you won't I don't gloat like you, and the fact that 95% of you wouldn't even show your face if your team was horrid will show how much of a fan you are then.

If you come around 10 years down the road and the Pats are a crap team and your still cheer for them I will be shocked!

I cheered for my team when they were 1-15 and I'll cheer for them again if they ever get that bad. The only reason I'm riding you is because you're so worked up about it.

[KTown]

Originally Posted by troutman

Lame. There is no argument. What the Pats are doing is definitely more impressive - they just have to finish the job.

Spygate? I'll raise you a salary cap, and a difficult schedule.

Every team cheats - the Pats got caught. Spygate did not give the Pats an edge in any way in 2007, and they were harshly punished.

I said we can go on forever, how about the fact that in 72

The nfl players didn't train much in the offseason, the smoke and drank, there are lots of factors.

I love how all patsie fans think there accomplishment this year is better than an undefeated feat of 72.

Different times I guess, I would consider them the same and they are both the greatest accomplishments.

[KTown]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

I could care less. Dolphins had a great acomplishment, but you can't deny the fact that it was the easiest schedule in NFL history. Patriots are 18-0, great acomplishment as well. I cheered for the opponent in every one of their games. The whole Spygate thing really irritated me. Espeacilly the way the NFL was so quick to "move on".

THe spy gate has more to do with previous years then this year.

The front office made some excellent moves this offseason.

Bill will go down as one of the greatest coaches in history.

Brady will go down as one of the greatest qbs in history

Moss will go down as one of the greates receivers in history.

The team is basically an all-star team in a salary cap era. How the hell the front office accomplished this is astounishing.

The funny thing is up until this year no matter how bad Miami was they always gave Brady fits. This year has been special for them

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by KTown

It may be but so is saying the dolphins 72 feat is not as good as this because of the teams they played is a crock of . Every week you saw in the NFL potenital upsets.

Both feats are astounishing. I'm impressed by the Patsies, what Im not impressed is the influx of fans that all of a sudden call themselves long time Patsie fans. Whether thats you or not I will never know,

But the fact that I still support my dolphins after these last 5 years shows how pationate I am about my fins. I watch every dolphins game. I will be in Denver to watch the Fish play next year as well. The fact that you kick a fan when hes down for cheering for the fish is just wrong, why should I jump on the patsie wagon?

Ive probably cheered for the Pats longer than youve been around...on earth that is!

[KTown]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

Personally I don't have a problem with the Patriots. For me it isn't any fun to cheer for a double digit favorite in the Super Bowl, unless it was the Kansas City Chiefs (then I would be worried about them blowing it). Did the Spygate controversy help them go undefeated? I doubt it. The only real problem I had with it was the way the NFL was so quick to put it behind them. I don't think the league wanted to tarnish its image with the suspicion of a cheating dynasty. Three Super Bowls by three points. Did they cheat in those games? I wouldn't have a clue. But there is definitely some suspicion there and probably allways will be.

Exactly when my kids ask me about the Pats Dynasty in 20 years from now I will be like they were an excellent team but they did go through a cheating scandal. So you just never know, how pure there wins were.

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by KTown

All I hear is blah blah blah. Do you want to start this argument. There is no way its a better feat than the 72 dolphins it will be the exact same.

Look at this way the Dolphins never cheated to win. Spygate Bill.

You can go on forever as to who is better its a great achievement by both teams.

I think the fact that the Pats have already eclipsed the number of wins that the '72 Dolphins had, the salary cap and the lack of competition (seriously, .300 winning percentage) makes the Pats feat superior.

The Dolphins were the first but they wont be remembered as the best (if the Pats do close it out). Mercury Morris and the rest of those arrogant '72 Dolphins have enjoyed 36 years of bragging and champaign popping. The run is over. And for good measure, I hope the Pats go 19-0 next season.

[KTown]

Originally Posted by Pagal4321

I think the Pats record is more impressive than the Dolphins record. Now, don't get me wrong, both are great accompishments, but in a salary cap era for a team to go 18-0 is pretty damn impressive.
Spygate was a fully over blown issue....every team does it and the only reason the Pats got caught was becuase Mangini was trying to make a name for himself, but karma sure bit him in the ass.

Now this is coming from a Vikings fan...not a Pats fan, or a Colts fan or a Chargers fan, so no real AFC bias.

I can tell you also why lots of people would judge it being a better accomplishment, because I gaurantee 95% of the people saying its better never once whats the 72 dolphins play on old game tape.

How can you say its better without officially seeing both accomplishments happen?