Landover Baptist Pastor Preaches To Atheists

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

cheese, what do you say to a child dying of cancer who asks, "Daddy, what happens to me after I die?"

Hopefully Ive been honest enough with my child before that time where there is no need to use the God excuse.
Seriously.... (IF and ONLY IF there was no chance of recovery and something had to be said)...."My lovely (insert daughters/sons name)...you will always be with us. The memories of all the good things we have done and shared will last forever. We will tell everyone what a good person you were and make sure that your brothers/sisters always hold you in the highest regard. Your mom and I will miss you dearly, there will never be a day we wont think of you as part of the family. We will love you until our last breath!
(this was done without a ton of thought and on the spur of the moment...given more thought some lines might be modified)

Why...would you suggest to that child that they will see you in heaven and not to worry God will be there to lead her through the pearly gates??

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Cheese

The Free will argument, by people much more knowledgable than I.

You know Cheese, I realize that you have a million links to back up every single part that you hate about religion.

Problem is I usually never read them. Not that they don't make any sense, but because it seems like you can't defend yourself properly, so you bring in arguments by people 'much more knowledgable than I.'

Nothing personally against you or anything.

I have free will....I have the free will to do whatever I please.

So I could care less what those more knowledgeable people say.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Cheese

A young child is "TAUGHT" the belief system of the parents that rear them. Children are born inherantly good without a single thought of malice.

Yet....

(Some children are handed a bad bowl of genetics at birth that could cause malevolent issues later)

All in the genetics, right?

BS.

Wasn't it John Locke would argued extensively about the inherit evil of mankind?

How do you explain that what is happening in the pics below is a good thing to children, or is it Free Will??

I know.

Lets blame it on religion. Surely God has to be involved somehow.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Azure

You know Cheese, I realize that you have a million links to back up every single part that you hate about religion.

Problem is I usually never read them. Not that they don't make any sense, but because it seems like you can't defend yourself properly, so you bring in arguments by people 'much more knowledgable than I.'

Nothing personally against you or anything.

I have free will....I have the free will to do whatever I please.

So I could care less what those more knowledgeable people say.

well...in my defence...troutman does the same thing and I dont see you saying anything to him in that regard. Where there are more knowledgeable people and its already been said ...eloquently..why wouldnt I use that source? Nothing personal against you either. I have actually been to all of the sites, read thousands of articles and couldnt possibly write answers to questions getting all of the information into the answer as quickly and efficiently as linking.
Again...I dont hate anything, including religion. I hate lies...and I hate the teaching of lies to children. If someone can prove to me that what they espouse is NOT a lie, I will give them full credit where credit is due.
I suggest you read what knowledgeable people have to say...Ive read the bible more than once.

edit...
I went back to my posts previous to this one and the last 4 didnt contain one link...all were based on my own thoughts/ideas.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

cheese, what do you say to a child dying of cancer who asks, "Daddy, what happens to me after I die?"

If I were you I'd quit asking Cheese these kinds of questions.

No matter what you said, positive or negative, religion or 'God' will always get blamed.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Cheese

well...in my defence...troutman does the same thing and I dont see you saying anything to him in that regard.

I don't see troutman posting here in this thread.

Where there are more knowledgeable people and its already been said ...eloquently..why wouldnt I use that source? Nothing personal against you either. I have actually been to all of the sites, read thousands of articles and couldnt possibly write answers to questions getting all of the information into the answer as quickly and efficiently as linking.

Hey, thats your prerogative. I just don't read anything you link.

I could find lots of knowledgeable people who will cite the 'other' side of the story. Then we could go back and forth and see who links the most articles.

First person to run out loses.

Again...I dont hate anything, including religion.

You most obviously hate religion. Even the outsider reading this thread should realize that.

I hate lies...and I hate the teaching of lies to children.

Right. And since you consider religion to be a big 'lie'....it makes you hate religion.

If someone can prove to me that what they espouse is NOT a lie, I will give them full credit where credit is due.
I suggest you read what knowledgeable people have to say...Ive read the bible more than once.

Reading the Bible makes absolutely no difference.

Nor does reading what knowledgeable people have to say either. You're convictions have already brought you to the point where anything argued in 'favor' of religion is a 'lie.' Thats why you're an atheist.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Azure

If I were you I'd quit asking Cheese these kinds of questions.

No matter what you said, positive or negative, religion or 'God' will always get blamed.

He never gave a positive or negative...he simply asked me a question.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Azure

I don't see troutman posting here in this thread.



Hey, thats your prerogative. I just don't read anything you link.

I could find lots of knowledgeable people who will cite the 'other' side of the story. Then we could go back and forth and see who links the most articles.

First person to run out loses.



You most obviously hate religion. Even the outsider reading this thread should realize that.



Right. And since you consider religion to be a big 'lie'....it makes you hate religion.



Reading the Bible makes absolutely no difference.

Nor does reading what knowledgeable people have to say either. You're convictions have already brought you to the point where anything argued in 'favor' of religion is a 'lie.' Thats why you're an atheist.

Dont be so angry Azure. Try reading anything outside of apologetics.
There have been ideas I had in the past both for and against my ideals that have caused me to change because I actually read something that wasnt part of the ideal I was involved with. Read my links...give me yours...discuss them openly and honestly. Dont outright suggest you would never read anything I write because I hate all religions. You dont know me or what I am...and I dont know you.

as to above...the lies in religion is what I hate. Practise whatever you want...religion, sorcery, S&M...whatever turns your crank. Just dont BS anyone about what it is or isnt.
Why dont you post me a few links...I promise to read them.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Azure

Yet....



All in the genetics, right?

BS.

Wasn't it John Locke would argued extensively about the inherit evil of mankind?



I know.

Lets blame it on religion. Surely God has to be involved somehow.

John Locke lived in the 17th century. (August 29, 1632 – October 28, 1704)
He postulated that the mind was a "blank slate" or "tabula rasa"; that is, contrary to Cartesian or Christian philosophy, Locke maintained that people are born without innate ideas.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Cheese

John Locke lived in the 17th century. (August 29, 1632 – October 28, 1704)
He postulated that the mind was a "blank slate" or "tabula rasa"; that is, contrary to Cartesian or Christian philosophy, Locke maintained that people are born without innate ideas.

And he was probably 99% wrong. I would argue that with well over 90% of the world's population believing in some sort of God, that that religion is genetically ingrained in the human consciousness.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Dont be so angry Azure. Try reading anything outside of apologetics.

I'm not angry.

I'm the last person who will read stuff written by apologetics. Specifically religion ones. The problem is that you read the stuff written by the religious fanatics, the fundamentalists, and you suddenly think ALL religion is that way.

There have been ideas I had in the past both for and against my ideals that have caused me to change because I actually read something that wasnt part of the ideal I was involved with.

I realize that your first marriage really didn't turn out. I realize that because of 'her' you turned to atheism. But not ALL religious people are like your ex-wife.

Reading the Bible doesn't qualify as reading something that wasn't part of the ideal you are involved in.

To some it is just a collection of stories, to some a focal point of their faith. Its HOW you interpret it that makes ALL the difference. Not just merely reading it.

Read my links...give me yours...discuss them openly and honestly. Dont outright suggest you would never read anything I write because I hate all religions. You dont know me or what I am...and I dont know you.

I don't have any links. Nor will I go search for a bunch of them to try and back up my belief. I know where I stand, and reading a bunch of internet articles written ALWAYS written by someone with an obvious bias 'either' way....isn't going to change that.

as to above...the lies in religion is what I hate. Practise whatever you want...religion, sorcery, S&M...whatever turns your crank. Just dont BS anyone about what it is or isnt.

And I'll be the last person to say that religion doesn't lie.

But I certainly won't go as far as to say that because I saw some hick preacher on TV telling people to send money and he'll heal them, which both of us know is a farce....and say that all of religion is that way.

There are religious people who are open-minded. Who do NOT take everything the Bible says as 'literal' truth. I really wish you would start looking at their side of the story, and avoid the fundamentalists who DO take everything the Bible says as literal truth.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by peter12

And he was probably 99% wrong. I would argue that with well over 90% of the world's population believing in some sort of God, that that religion is genetically ingrained in the human consciousness.

Some argue that it is fear of the unknown and the inherent desire of humans to want all the answers to life's questions. Religion, especially in historical societies answered all of those questions and was always created in some form to do so.

You're seeing the rising numbers of atheists now, because science is providing those answers for them, or at the very least, faith in the fact that science, given enough time, will find the logical answers to the questions which have plagued humans since their exsistance.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Some argue that it is fear of the unknown and the inherent desire of humans to want all the answers to life's questions. Religion, especially in historical societies answered all of those questions and was always created in some form to do so.

You're seeing the rising numbers of atheists now, because science is providing those answers for them, or at the very least, faith in the fact that science, given enough time, will find the logical answers to the questions which have plagued humans since their exsistance.

I think, especially in a modern society, that the number of secularists/atheists grows and then recedes. Science cannot, to my satisfaction, answer some of the most serious questions that humans ask.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by peter12

I would argue that with well over 90% of the world's population believing in some sort of God, that that religion is genetically ingrained in the human consciousness.

Where did you get that 90% figure from?

http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm

According to that chart, 14% reported "No religion" (which is defined as "agnostics, freethinkers, humanists, secularists, etc.") or "Atheist". Furthermore, another 6% are Buddhist, a religion which does not believe in God, and there's also millions who practice Taoism, Confucianism and Shintoism, but those religions fall into the <1% category (as does Judaism).

Christianity and Islam combine for about 51% of the world's population. Hinduism is another 13%, although as a polytheistic religion, I'm not sure if you would classify them as believing in "some sort of God", as that implies (although this may not have been your intent) belief in the Abrahamic "one true God". All other theistic religions have a mindshare of <1%.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by peter12

I think, especially in a modern society, that the number of secularists/atheists grows and then recedes. Science cannot, to my satisfaction, answer some of the most serious questions that humans ask.

I agree that science will likely not provide answers to some of those questions (afterlife), but I'm not sure if the number of atheists will recede. Isn't the US the only "Western" Nation with increasing participation in religion?

OT: did you still want that Cahill book? It pertains to some of the topics in this thread.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

I agree that science will likely not provide answers to some of those questions (afterlife), but I'm not sure if the number of atheists will recede. Isn't the US the only "Western" Nation with increasing participation in religion?

OT: did you still want that Cahill book? It pertains to some of the topics in this thread.

No, I have the complete series now. I'd find it pretty interesting to hear what you thought of it seeing as the guy who wrote it is a Catholic scholar.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Where did you get that 90% figure from?

http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm

According to that chart, 14% reported "No religion" (which is defined as "agnostics, freethinkers, humanists, secularists, etc.") or "Atheist". Furthermore, another 6% are Buddhist, a religion which does not believe in God, and there's also millions who practice Taoism, Confucianism and Shintoism, but those religions fall into the <1% category (as does Judaism).

Christianity and Islam combine for about 51% of the world's population. Hinduism is another 13%, although as a polytheistic religion, I'm not sure if you would classify them as believing in "some sort of God", as that implies (although this may not have been your intent) belief in the Abrahamic "one true God". All other theistic religions have a mindshare of <1%.

Maybe I should expand my definition and say that the number of people who seek a transcendent and spiritual experience is well over 95% of the world's population. That's what meant my definition to include. In fact, I would argue it's probably closer to 100%. You can throw in Buddhists and alot of secular humanists.

My point is that religion or the need for spirituality is ingrained in all of us. While I may be a Christian in my own personal life, I take inspiration from the world's many great religious traditions, including the writings of modern secularists, who originally saw themselves as being on a spiritual journey of their own.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by peter12

No, I have the complete series now. I'd find it pretty interesting to hear what you thought of it seeing as the guy who wrote it is a Catholic scholar.

Well, I've read roughly half of the book that I have, Book 5, I did find it very interesting how he talks about how early Christians/Jews were influenced by Greco-Roman ideas and how they incorporated that into their faith.

Stuff like scorn for the flesh, the soul, the role of women in society, were all taken from the Greek philosophers in particular. Granted there is a little bit of blame shifting, but overall it is very interesting and really well written/presented.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Well, I've read roughly half of the book that I have, Book 5, I did find it very interesting how he talks about how early Christians/Jews were influenced by Greco-Roman ideas and how they incorporated that into their faith.

Stuff like scorn for the flesh, the soul, the role of women in society, were all taken from the Greek philosophers in particular. Granted there is a little bit of blame shifting, but overall it is very interesting and really well written/presented.

Well, it's interesting, because I think it paints out a realistic portrayal of what universalist spirituality looks like. It's a complex weaving of different social ideas and innovations that combine in a remarkably complex synthesis.

[MarchHare]

Maybe I should expand my definition and say that the number of people who seek a transcendent and spiritual experience is well over 95% of the world's population

Wow...are you seriously just making up those numbers or what? What's your source for that claim?

My point is that religion or the need for spirituality is ingrained in all of us. While I may be a Christian in my own personal life, I take inspiration from the world's many great religious traditions, including the writings of modern secularists, who originally saw themselves as being on a spiritual journey of their own.

I think a desire to know what (if anything) exists after our deaths, and the answers to complex questions concerning life and the origins of the universe are a common theme in humanity. I don't think there's an innate need for religion or spirituality, only a need to find answers to those questions. So far, religion has been the "best" (and I use that term very loosely) source of providing answers, and that's why it's been embraced by billions of people.