Tough Guys and Lazy Police

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by 4X4

This is funny listening to you guys go back and forth. The cops are right. What can they do about a situation that involved minor injury? With all the BS and lying that drunk people are known to spew, why would we want the cops to be fiddling around with some fistfight over a taxi, when there are constantly stabbings and shootings at bars?

Seriously, hate to pile on, lifer, but something tells me that your lady just got lippy and maybe got a backhand to the face. For all the cop knows, she kicked him in the balls first. It doesn't make it right, but the girl is ok and the drunks are still pouring out of the bar. On halloween. When everyone is costumed up and could easily be carrying weapons.

All the more reason for cops to be on the scene. Not around the corner eating hotdogs.

[urban1]

Cops are constantly forced to make judgement calls and use their discretion.

Saturday nights are busy nights for police and even more so this particular one with all the Halloween activities going on. If the cops go over to investigate the situation and make a report, theyll probably waste half an hour taking names, statements, talking to witnesses. What a waste of time for something that wont go anywhere. So while the cops are wasting their time with this, theres something serious that they cant attend to because theyre stuck here.

No one was in any danger at the point your g/f talked to the cops. The situation was over. The cop, using his judgment based on his knowledge and experience, knew it would be a waste of time to pursue this.

Originally Posted by normtwofinger

There's always 3 sides to a story, your's, their's and the truth.

I've heard from multiple people, including police officers that the CPS is one of the most corrupt police forces in Canada. The less paperwork the better, so they will turn a blind eye to minor incidents, like this one, where no one is seriously hurt. Next time get his badge number and name and file a complaint if that will do anything.

Haha... hilarious. Nice to paint the entire CPS with one brush. Just to confirm, are they corrupt OR are they try to avoid paper (neglet of duty). Now if they would have taken money to turn a blind eye, I would say that is corruption. If they turned a blind eye because they didn't wanna to paperwork, I would say their INDIVIDUAL work ethic is lacking not that they are corrupt.

I have heard from several people that the earth is flat. Guess it must be true.

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

All the more reason for cops to be on the scene. Not around the corner eating hotdogs.

They were on scene. However, the 10000 person pub crawl might have distracted them. I don't know, just a guess.

[Burninator]

The police wouldn't necessarily have to file reports. But they could do something, anything. I didn't realize their jobs were, do everything to the full extent of the law, or nothing. I think the middle ground in this situation would have been adequate. Went around the corner to investigate and get everyone on their way. This idea of "wasting their time, could have stopped a real crime" is BS. I highly doubt the couple of minutes that would be required to investigate the situation is preventing them from stopping another more "important" crime that on that street corner. Picking and choosing your duties doesn't really make sense. "Well we could look into your friend that got beat up, but someone might get murdered so we'll have to be out on the look out for that."

Originally Posted by Burninator

The police wouldn't necessarily have to file reports. "

I don't get how thats possible. How would they not have to do a report?

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

I don't get how thats possible. How would they not have to do a report?

You tell us. I think he was saying that the cops could go over and make sure everyone leaves the scene. I have had cops tell me to leave the scene numerous times. Did they have to file a report every time? If so why didn't they get my name?

[lifer]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I find it odd that you have these seemingly contradictory statements. On one hand, you are willing to concede that your G/F may not be giving you the whole story. Then 2 posts later you talk about why the cops just sat on their butts not doing anything.

If the truth lies somewhere in the middle; is it not possible that your g/f and her friends either started this, or at least helped it along? Is it not possible that the cops saw the whole thing; figured your g/f's group was the one who should be charged, but also suffered the most damage, and the other group didn't want to press charges?

The other factor is the "welt" that you say your g/f suffered was completely gone 24 hours later; which to me implies a red mark and not a welt. Perhaps a trained police officer saw there was a mark no worse than what a person would get bumping into a pole, and saw no crime.

One more possibility; the police may have been called there for another reason. Maybe a report of a gun or a knife; or a wanted person. It's possible they had bigger fish to fry.

We have 1/3 of the story, and you are thinking of arming her? If that's even a possibility for her, I think I can safely assume there's more to the story than what she's told you. The only reason t oarm yourself to go out to the club is to try to escallate the violence. And if she's looking to escalate the violence, that tells me she may have had a hand in things escalating the other night.

I don't think the statements are contradictory. The first one is saying yes, there obviously is another side of the story. There are two sides to every story, yet police tend to look in to some of them. My complaint is that these cops heard her side of the story, which was what I have relayed here, and they didn't do anything. If it is too much to ask for police to walk a few meters and look into the situation, we've hit a disgusting level in Calgary. Like I said, if they got there and then came to the conclusion that they shoudn't do anything, I could live with that.
It is possible that the cops saw the whole thing and chose to do nothing. I dont' see how that makes them any better. That would mean that they witnessed a fight on the streets that was 2 guys beating on a group of girls, then a third guy getting involved and didn't act? What exactly is a beat officer's job? Do nothing unless somebody gets killed?
The 'welt' that she had was a red and swollen cheek bone when she got home that night. It's gone now. It was red and swollen when she got home, so I imagine it was when she was talking to the officers as well.

Why are there so many people who can't see the fundemental problem with the police not even attempting to learn anything else about this situation?

[lifer]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Right, but keep in mind Mr. Broken Nose didn't go to the police, he went to his truck. Or at least that's how I read it.


So, in my mind take Mr. BN out of this. Once you do that, you have a couple of girls with what could appear to be superficial injuries and were possibly acting drunk. (Assuming they were as sober as mentioned before.) Even if you bring Mr. BN into this, now you have two people who were indeed fighting, and the "he said she said" becomes a matter of seeing who to believe as to when the minor injuries happened- ie did they get those bumps by trying to break up the fight between the rival broken nose people?

Cops have a tough job to do sometimes. I've also done illegal things and had the officer decide not to arrest me. (An incident on the Red Mile where I confused "dump the beer" with "down the beer.") He decided not to arrest me as the greater good was served with keeping the peace among the 10,000 people behind me.

Lifer- one more thing for your g/f to consider if she wants to file a complaint- once the whole truth comes out Mr. BN and his fight buddy may end up with assault charges. It doesn't matter if a fight is consentual; both can be charged.

I've been let go by cops when they could have arrested me before too. I know what you mean. Nobody had to get arrested there (as I said, I don't know the whole story) but it would have been nice if they spent 5 minutes to check it out. That is not too much to ask of a police officer I don't think.
Yeah, thats kind of what I was getting at when I said he didnt go to the cops, he just went home. He doesn't want to deal with assault charges of his own, however I beleive defense of others would be a decent defense considering when he started fighting it was to pull a guy off of my girlfriend who had already hit her once and was threatening to do so
again.

I forgot to respond to something you said in my last post, so I'll do so here. You said the only reason to arm her is to escalate situations like this one. You are wrong. The only reason I would get some pepper spray for her is that when a man has hit her, and is holding her and shaking her by the collar and threatening to hit her again she can spray him to defend herself. It's not like the guy let her go, he got knocked off of her by MR BN. If a man is trying to hurt a woman and she is by herself, she cannot defend herself very well. A can of pepper spray in the face greatly increases her odds of that.

Originally Posted by lifer

I don't think the statements are contradictory. The first one is saying yes, there obviously is another side of the story. There are two sides to every story, yet police tend to look in to some of them. My complaint is that these cops heard her side of the story, which was what I have relayed here, and they didn't do anything. If it is too much to ask for police to walk a few meters and look into the situation, we've hit a disgusting level in Calgary. Like I said, if they got there and then came to the conclusion that they shoudn't do anything, I could live with that.
It is possible that the cops saw the whole thing and chose to do nothing. I dont' see how that makes them any better. That would mean that they witnessed a fight on the streets that was 2 guys beating on a group of girls, then a third guy getting involved and didn't act? What exactly is a beat officer's job? Do nothing unless somebody gets killed?
The 'welt' that she had was a red and swollen cheek bone when she got home that night. It's gone now. It was red and swollen when she got home, so I imagine it was when she was talking to the officers as well.

Why are there so many people who can't see the fundemental problem with the police not even attempting to learn anything else about this situation?

I have conceded that, IF things happened as you said, it is unfortunate. I have given you info on how to complain about the perceived neglect of duty.

I think what I am, and several others are doing, or attempting to do, is shed some light on the other side. I am not saying what was done, or not done, is right only that there is another side or perhaps an explanation. As neither of us were there, your presented your side and several of us responded with another perspective.

Look at it this was, as I have said several times, a 10000 person pub crawl may change the way police, vastly outnumbered, handle things. The descretion shown by police during the 'red mile' celebrations is a good example. There simply isn't enough personel on the street to investigate every complaint then and there. I am sure they were approached numerous times by people claiming they were assaulted that night.

[jolinar of malkshor]

As much as I support police I do have to agree that there is a lack of motivation on their part when it comes to dealing with drunk people at or outside bars. I have witnessed many occations where the police really dont want to take the time and effort to do a proper investigation when an assualt occures at a bar. There are several reasons for this. Some are, getting statements can be difficult from drunk people, perception of the events may be quite scewed from a drunk persons perspective, verifing ones statements the day after can be quite difficult due to memory loss, the unwillingness of witnesses to give information.

This however does not excuse any officer from not taking any assualt seriously. Many times the officer will ask the person who was assualted "were you drinking?" And if they answer yes the response is usually "well you have to wait until you are sober to file a report" or "there is nothing we can do about it" or "it was a consentual fight".

No matter what the situation or complaint is the police have a duty to investigate the complaint properly and just because someone has been drinking doesn't mean they deserved to get assualted. No one deserves to be assualted.

[lifer]

Yeah. Thanks for the direction on the actions that I can take. I honestly do appreciate it and I understand the points that many of you guys are making. I just disagree with the excuses that some people are making for the police. The only serious injury is the broken nose, and that was during a fight (I guess you really do need to keep your hands up). Those things happen. The girls are both fine, and were never really injured, just some bumps and scrapes and they were quite upset. They were in danger of being injured and they were assaulted though. As far as I'm concerned, as long as those two guys were there, there remained in danger. If the only thing the cops did was come over and disperse the crowd I'd be satisfied with that.
The other reason I'm reacting harshly to some of this stuff is some of the insinuation that the she was being lippy and "just got a backhand across the face". The way I see it, not matter how "lippy" a girl gets it's not OK to hit her. I'm also sure that it is impossible for me to see or hear of a man hitting a woman and think of is as "just" anything. It's severe in my mind. Some people may have different values I guess.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by 4X4

With all the BS and lying that drunk people are known to spew, why would we want the cops to be fiddling around with some fistfight over a taxi, when there are constantly stabbings and shootings at bars?

And might these stabbings and shootings that are occurring stem from escalations of events like these? Maybe if they actually did their job then it wouldn't be made as hard as some are suggesting it has become. I believe the job of police officers is to "Serve and Protect"; note how it neither says "But Only Sober People" nor "And Judge". Even if 4 out 5 the drunken altercations that they respond to happen to be caused by the drunks it is their job to go each and every one so that they will be there for that 1 in 5 instance. They chose the job knowing that this is what it it entails doing, so they should just bloody well deal with it!

[tanguay'sstillgood]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

I have conceded that, IF things happened as you said, it is unfortunate. I have given you info on how to complain about the perceived neglect of duty.

I think what I am, and several others are doing, or attempting to do, is shed some light on the other side. I am not saying what was done, or not done, is right only that there is another side or perhaps an explanation. As neither of us were there, your presented your side and several of us responded with another perspective.

Look at it this was, as I have said several times, a 10000 person pub crawl may change the way police, vastly outnumbered, handle things. The descretion shown by police during the 'red mile' celebrations is a good example. There simply isn't enough personel on the street to investigate every complaint then and there. I am sure they were approached numerous times by people claiming they were assaulted that night.

And I think that is all lifer is asking the cops to have done.
Also, for your last point...if it is such a busy night where the potential of something bad happening is increased, i would think they would want to diffuse situations before they escalate. Since we have gotten into hypotheticals now, here's one for everybody: lifer's lady calls him, tells him what happens. he gets a couple of his buddies together, they head on down, possibly armed. they hop out of a van, beat the hell out of the 2 guys. cops do nothing because it happened around the corner, not in their plain view. But, of course, this is unrealistic because gang violence and retaliation assaults never happen here.

I want to add something else, as well (nothing to do with your post quoted above, BW). When i have been causing problems i try to avoid cops, not bring the situation to their attention. for this reason, i think it's less likely that she would have gone to the cops if she had been a drunk, rowdy idiot hitting the guys (as someone suggested earlier).