Tough Guys and Lazy Police

Originally Posted by Burninator

Don't you see a problem with that? I certainly do. Just because it's late and some people are drinking doesn't excuse the police from their duties.

Actually, to a certain extent it does. Although in your simple statement, 'Just because it's late and some people are drinking doesn't excuse the police from their dutiest', I would certainly agree. I am not sure you quite understood what I had posted. When someone is drunk, beligerant and aggressive they lose all credibility. Lemme ask you this, if you were a cop in my scenario, how would you react? What would you do differently? And please be realistic.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

Actually, to a certain extent it does. Although in your simple statement, 'Just because it's late and some people are drinking doesn't excuse the police from their dutiest', I would certainly agree. I am not sure you quite understood what I had posted. When someone is drunk, beligerant and aggressive they lose all credibility. Lemme ask you this, if you were a cop in my scenario, how would you react? What would you do differently? And please be realistic.

You posted a "what if" scenario, and I don't see the relevance. Not everyone who is drinking is belligerent and aggressive. Some are, but that doesn't mean the police can ignore everyone in that situation. If the second sentence in a conversation with a police officer has "f-ing pig" in it, then no, I wouldn't expect the police to listen that well. But realistically most people don't talk like that anyways. And really it shouldn't matter that much anyways. If the police officer was called a pig a minute before by another drunk and lifers girlfriend asked for help, he isn't absolved of his duty.

You posted a "what if" scenario, and I don't see the relevance. Not everyone who is drinking is belligerent and aggressive. Some are, but that doesn't mean the police can ignore everyone in that situation. If the second sentence in a conversation with a police officer has "f-ing pig" in it, then no, I wouldn't expect the police to listen that well. But realistically most people don't talk like that anyways. And really it shouldn't matter that much anyways. If the police officer was called a pig a minute before by another drunk and lifers girlfriend asked for help, he isn't absolved of his duty.


I posted a rather common occurance (scenario as you called it) to try to add some perspective. I think it is relevant. And I agree with you, not every situation should be ignored simply because someone is drunk- as I stated, I am willing to bet she was offered some advise on how to pursue it when she sobered up. And yes, realistically, A LOT of people talk that way especially in that setting.

[lifer]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

You posted a "what if" scenario, and I don't see the relevance. Not everyone who is drinking is belligerent and aggressive. Some are, but that doesn't mean the police can ignore everyone in that situation. If the second sentence in a conversation with a police officer has "f-ing pig" in it, then no, I wouldn't expect the police to listen that well. But realistically most people don't talk like that anyways. And really it shouldn't matter that much anyways. If the police officer was called a pig a minute before by another drunk and lifers girlfriend asked for help, he isn't absolved of his duty.


I posted a rather common occurance (scenario as you called it) to try to add some perspective. I think it is relevant. And I agree with you, not every situation should be ignored simply because someone is drunk- as I stated, I am willing to bet she was offered some advise on how to pursue it when she sobered up. And yes, realistically, A LOT of people talk that way especially in that setting.

You would lose that bet. She was simply told by the officers (who didn't take the time to walk half a block to see what was going on) that it happened all the time, and there was nothing they could do because it was a he said, she said situation. That's it. If there were going to offer advice on how to pursue things in the morning it would have been a whole lot easier if they had made the effort to even get the names of the people involved.
As I've said before, the truth of the situation likely does lie in the middle (though I will never hear the other side of the story no matter how much I'd like to meet the guy to get it). I have no doubt that they were arguing with the guys. I'd just like to have seen the cops spend 5 minutes and try to see if there was anything they should be doing. They didn't. That's pathetic. There is no excuse for it (even if they were waiting for the juicy jumbo they had just ordered to come off of the BBQ).

Thanks for the heads up on the pepper spray. I didn't know it was illegal. Oh well. I'll just tell her to make sure she only uses it at 3am when drunk people are involved. There is nothing the cops could or should do about that anyway.

Originally Posted by lifer

Thanks for the heads up on the pepper spray. I didn't know it was illegal. Oh well. I'll just tell her to make sure she only uses it at 3am when drunk people are involved. There is nothing the cops could or should do about that anyway.

That'll teach em. Maybe pick up a 9mm while yer at it.

[lifer]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

That'll teach em. Maybe pick up a 9mm while yer at it.

It's not a matter of teaching them. It's a matter of defending yourself because Calgary's finest proved incapable. If cops cant get off their asses to help out, what is she supposed to do? What would have happened to her if the guy hadn't showed up and pulled this guy off of her? She had already been hit in the face and her friend was being thrown around. THe cops didn't have any motivation to help. It's pathetic.
It woudl also probably teach them to get pepper sprayed in the face and then have their balls kick up into their throat.

[urban1]

What happened to the guy who got his nose broken?

Did he go up to the cops? Was an ambulance called? Was he bleeding everywhere or was his face puffed up?

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by lifer

It's not a matter of teaching them. It's a matter of defending yourself because Calgary's finest proved incapable. If cops cant get off their asses to help out, what is she supposed to do? What would have happened to her if the guy hadn't showed up and pulled this guy off of her? She had already been hit in the face and her friend was being thrown around. THe cops didn't have any motivation to help. It's pathetic.
It woudl also probably teach them to get pepper sprayed in the face and then have their balls kick up into their throat.

You're making it sound like in this statement that her friends were in some sort of imminent danger when she went to the cops. Were they? Because you did not make that distinction beforehand in your OP.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by fotze

Make sure the person you shoot is drunk or better yet, on drugs.

Shoot with a taser that is.

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

You're making it sound like in this statement that her friends were in some sort of imminent danger when she went to the cops. Were they? Because you did not make that distinction beforehand in your OP.

I dont get it.... as with Caramon, you make it sound like they watched all this occurr. Did they? The story seems to have changed now.

'Yes, you honor, that's sorta how it happened. I mean, I know I said that the police were a block away when I approached them, but that was a lie, they actually watched it happen. That's right, they were there and did nothing. And ya I was drinking, but I swear I only had 2 drinks 4 hours ago. You can trust me...'

[lifer]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

You're making it sound like in this statement that her friends were in some sort of imminent danger when she went to the cops. Were they? Because you did not make that distinction beforehand in your OP.

They were no longer fighting, but everybody involved was still on the same block as one another and were still arguing. The cops weren't there when this happened. That's OK. They can't be everywhere at once. They were informed about it very shortly after and they decided not to do anything. Not even to walk over there and talk to a couple witnesses or anything. They couldn't ahve done anything to prevent what happened that night, but they could have looked in to it after the fact. You know, like they are supposed to do when they are called.

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

I dont get it.... as with Caramon, you make it sound like they watched all this occurr. Did they? The story seems to have changed now.

'Yes, you honor, that's sorta how it happened. I mean, I know I said that the police were a block away when I approached them, but that was a lie, they actually watched it happen. That's right, they were there and did nothing. And ya I was drinking, but I swear I only had 2 drinks 4 hours ago. You can trust me...'

You're ######ed sarcasm aside, no, the story hasn't changed. I've said a bunch of times now that I wish that they would have simply walked over to investigate a little bit. They didn't, and there is no excuse for what they did.

[lifer]

Originally Posted by urban1

What happened to the guy who got his nose broken?

Did he go up to the cops? Was an ambulance called? Was he bleeding everywhere or was his face puffed up?

He had his truck there. No ambulance was called. He went home. His nose was cut in 3 places, swollen, out of place and bleeding a lot.
He did not go to the cops. He assaulted the other guys as much as they assaulted him. He was fighting. It was in defense of his girlfriend and my girlfriend, but he was fighting regardless.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by lifer

As I've said before, the truth of the situation likely does lie in the middle

Originally Posted by lifer

If cops cant get off their asses to help out, what is she supposed to do?

I find it odd that you have these seemingly contradictory statements. On one hand, you are willing to concede that your G/F may not be giving you the whole story. Then 2 posts later you talk about why the cops just sat on their butts not doing anything.

If the truth lies somewhere in the middle; is it not possible that your g/f and her friends either started this, or at least helped it along? Is it not possible that the cops saw the whole thing; figured your g/f's group was the one who should be charged, but also suffered the most damage, and the other group didn't want to press charges?

The other factor is the "welt" that you say your g/f suffered was completely gone 24 hours later; which to me implies a red mark and not a welt. Perhaps a trained police officer saw there was a mark no worse than what a person would get bumping into a pole, and saw no crime.

One more possibility; the police may have been called there for another reason. Maybe a report of a gun or a knife; or a wanted person. It's possible they had bigger fish to fry.

We have 1/3 of the story, and you are thinking of arming her? If that's even a possibility for her, I think I can safely assume there's more to the story than what she's told you. The only reason t oarm yourself to go out to the club is to try to escallate the violence. And if she's looking to escalate the violence, that tells me she may have had a hand in things escalating the other night.

[guzzy]

Originally Posted by fotze

Yes it does. and if people would stop fighting tickets maybe they would have more time to not deal with these problems.

One of the greatest statements I have seen on these boards. Tickets are user fees for stupid people as far as I am concerned. If you want to speed you pay the price. I agree 100%. If the morons who are paying these user fees developed for stupid people, whose time is obviously more important than the rest of us, would stop fighting tickets and succumbing to their own ignorance we would be paying less OT for cops and be able to put more cops on the street. Kudos for making the statement Fotze.

[urban1]

Wrong thread bud.

Originally Posted by guzzy

One of the greatest statements I have seen on these boards. Tickets are user fees for stupid people as far as I am concerned. If you want to speed you pay the price. I agree 100%. If the morons who are paying these user fees developed for stupid people, whose time is obviously more important than the rest of us, would stop fighting tickets and succumbing to their own ignorance we would be paying less OT for cops and be able to put more cops on the street. Kudos for making the statement Fotze.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by urban1

Wrong thread bud.

How do you figure? Seems on point to me.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by guzzy

One of the greatest statements I have seen on these boards. Tickets are user fees for stupid people as far as I am concerned. If you want to speed you pay the price. I agree 100%. If the morons who are paying these user fees developed for stupid people, whose time is obviously more important than the rest of us, would stop fighting tickets and succumbing to their own ignorance we would be paying less OT for cops and be able to put more cops on the street. Kudos for making the statement Fotze.

But there was cops on the street. They coudn't bother to see what was going on half a block away. Who was right or who was wrong doesn't matter. There was an altercation involving violence with one party suffering a broken nose. If these two cops can't even be bothered to walk half a blook to restore order and ensure nobody else sustains any injurys, or at least clear the area? What good are they?

[4X4]

This is funny listening to you guys go back and forth. The cops are right. What can they do about a situation that involved minor injury? With all the BS and lying that drunk people are known to spew, why would we want the cops to be fiddling around with some fistfight over a taxi, when there are constantly stabbings and shootings at bars?

Seriously, hate to pile on, lifer, but something tells me that your lady just got lippy and maybe got a backhand to the face. For all the cop knows, she kicked him in the balls first. It doesn't make it right, but the girl is ok and the drunks are still pouring out of the bar. On halloween. When everyone is costumed up and could easily be carrying weapons.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

There was an altercation involving violence with one party suffering a broken nose.

Right, but keep in mind Mr. Broken Nose didn't go to the police, he went to his truck. Or at least that's how I read it.

Originally Posted by lifer

He had his truck there. No ambulance was called. He went home. His nose was cut in 3 places, swollen, out of place and bleeding a lot.
He did not go to the cops. He assaulted the other guys as much as they assaulted him.

So, in my mind take Mr. BN out of this. Once you do that, you have a couple of girls with what could appear to be superficial injuries and were possibly acting drunk. (Assuming they were as sober as mentioned before.) Even if you bring Mr. BN into this, now you have two people who were indeed fighting, and the "he said she said" becomes a matter of seeing who to believe as to when the minor injuries happened- ie did they get those bumps by trying to break up the fight between the rival broken nose people?

Cops have a tough job to do sometimes. I've also done illegal things and had the officer decide not to arrest me. (An incident on the Red Mile where I confused "dump the beer" with "down the beer.") He decided not to arrest me as the greater good was served with keeping the peace among the 10,000 people behind me.

Lifer- one more thing for your g/f to consider if she wants to file a complaint- once the whole truth comes out Mr. BN and his fight buddy may end up with assault charges. It doesn't matter if a fight is consentual; both can be charged.

[normtwofinger]

There's always 3 sides to a story, your's, their's and the truth.

I've heard from multiple people, including police officers that the CPS is one of the most corrupt police forces in Canada. The less paperwork the better, so they will turn a blind eye to minor incidents, like this one, where no one is seriously hurt. Next time get his badge number and name and file a complaint if that will do anything.