Poker site caught cheating

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Rgging a poker site would be nearly impossible. There is too much human decision involved in each hand for it to even work.

I wouldn't be surprised to hear about some bots though. For instance, last night I saw someone go all in preflop with 7-8 off (big stack) and flopped a boat. You gotta wonder about that.

Go ahead evman...tell me how much I suck at poker though.

How's that an example of a bot though? And your chance of that happening is something like ~1 in 750 so I guess it's not that big of a stretch.

I still think it is rigged. I notice that the first two tournaments I join right after a 2-3 month long hiatus I get ridiculously lucky. Then of course the luck "evens out" and I start doing somewhat poorly again. Seems like they're trying to give me a taste of winning so I stay longer and keep playing.

It's worked 3 times so far, I'd go back, join a $5 sit and go, and win it with no trouble at all even though I've probably gotten worse at poker from not playing as much.

[ericschand]

Originally Posted by Regorium

How's that an example of a bot though? And your chance of that happening is something like ~1 in 750 so I guess it's not that big of a stretch.

I still think it is rigged. I notice that the first two tournaments I join right after a 2-3 month long hiatus I get ridiculously lucky. Then of course the luck "evens out" and I start doing somewhat poorly again. Seems like they're trying to give me a taste of winning so I stay longer and keep playing.

It's worked 3 times so far, I'd go back, join a $5 sit and go, and win it with no trouble at all even though I've probably gotten worse at poker from not playing as much.

This is an example of how I think it's rigged.

They need you to keep coming back. Whether your skill level is
high, medium, or poor. Everyone wins at some point.

The number of factors used is high, how much you login, play, and
deposit is in there.

Like I said before, you can rig it, but still have the stats come out
perfectly fine in the end. This is not difficult.

Now, what is claimed in the Absolute Poker fiasco is completely
different. I just don't understand why a VP and Director of
online gambling companies would risk it over < $4k profit. (I
believe he was in a $1k s&g)

ers

PS. I don't think that any bad beat I've had was a result of cheating.
Maybe a bot, but even then, the odds are all out there.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Rgging a poker site would be nearly impossible. There is too much human decision involved in each hand for it to even work.

I think the easiest way to rig it would be to play while seeing everyone else's hands.

That site is blocked out at work, what happened in the article from the OP?

I don't see why anyone would be worried about playing a bot, unless the bot was somehow cheating. It would be pretty tough to program a bot that was better than a break even player.

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by evman150

*yawn*

This quickly turned into a bad beat donk fest of a thread.

Bad beats happen. If they didn't I'd be out of a job.

Seriously, anybody who complains about bad beats and sites being "rigged" is not good at poker.

The sites aren't rigged. This is an isolated incident. And it happened in a tournament. Who cares. Show me this happening with regularity in the no limit cash games then I'll care.

I love how this whole mess is becoming a "see! i was right, it is rigged!". Guys talking about AAAA losing to a straight flush and saying it's because it's rigged. Holy non-sequitur batman.

If you want to read some real commentary on this issue from real poker players, visit:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...gonew=1#UNREAD

edit: important update: The Potripper account belongs to AJ Green, former Director of Operations at AP and Scott Tom's best friend. AJ Green is currently VP of operations at nine.com.

Isolated incident, kind of like how Barry Bonds has never been caught cheating? I am sure the vast majority of poker websites, and other gambling websites are legit beyond belief, but is it not possible that this one incident is the fire behind the smoke?

[troutman]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

He's also flopped the nut straight, turned the nut flush, only to lose to a full house on the river.

Poker is another language. Who could understand this, except other poker players?

[Rhettzky]

65 out of 90 hands won? That is ridiculous. You'd think if they were going to cheat in the first place they would tone it down a little bit. I mean I've seen agressive players in casino games play a crap load of hands but it's still less than 50%.

IMO, the online poker kind of takes the whole fun out of the game. Sitting across the table from someone and picking up reads on their play is a whole lot more fun that trying to determine what they have by looking at hand histories and timing of bets.

[Qwerty]

http://www.gambling911.com/Absolute-Poker-101807.html

Decent Article on the whole thing.

[Weiser Wonder]

Yeah, it is pretty obvious the person playing can see everyone's cards.

I've always thought something was up at Pokerstars as my win rate there compared to Full Tilt or Doyle's Room is not up to par. The bad beats seem to come all to often at Pokerstars. However, that's probably just better play.


The bad beat stuff isn't proof though. Last home game I played, with QQ all-in on the flop of Q87 I lost to a runner-runner straight of ten-five offsuit. In layman's terms, I had trip queens and he needed two perfect cards in order to win with a straight. He hit those cards. Poker is just brutal sometimes. Live or online.

[Bobblehead]

I've heard people wonder if online poker is legit. They always mention how many times they see certain hands that they never see in real table games. The fact that they play 3x as many hands online as they would at a table, and are therefore likely to see 3x the number of bad beats and exotic hands doesn't seem to register or make a difference. They still believe something is fishy. And now that an online poker site appears to have been caught in a cheat, even if it was just once at a tournament table, it validates all those beliefs.

The thing is, the employee involved in this (it is rumoured to be one of the owners) is stupid because they just killed the goose that was providing the golden eggs. Unless the site is a start-up, online gambling should be a cash cow. But the number one thing any online business needs to cultivate is trust. You need to trust that you can give them your money. Now that trust has been violated, and there are a bunch of other sites that are the same darn thing who will be more than happy accept those customers.

[Bobblehead]

This has even been in the Freakonomics Blog in the New York Times.

http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.co...own-wide-open/

And other mainstream dailies are starting to pick up the story:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/t...-cheating.html

You just know that governments (or at least anti-gambling groups) are going to use this as a (further) excuse to limit/ban online gambling.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by fotze

Would it be of any benefit to play online with three other guys in the same room or is that not possible on online poker?

They software usually only allows one player per game per IP Address, although if those guys in the room were all connecting in different way, it is possible. I only ever played for free, and if I wanted to play at the same table as my wife I would need to connect to the neighbour's wireless connection.

[arsenal]

Originally Posted by fotze

Would it be of any benefit to play online with three other guys in the same room or is that not possible on online poker?

It can help. If you are all at the same table, and you are working together, then you will know 6 cards (including your 2 hole cards) that are not available to other players, and wont show up at all in the community cards.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by Rhettzky

65 out of 90 hands won? That is ridiculous. You'd think if they were going to cheat in the first place they would tone it down a little bit. I mean I've seen agressive players in casino games play a crap load of hands but it's still less than 50%.

IMO, the online poker kind of takes the whole fun out of the game. Sitting across the table from someone and picking up reads on their play is a whole lot more fun that trying to determine what they have by looking at hand histories and timing of bets.

Yeah online poker isn't too much fun, unless you make money. Which I do, so that's the fun part. It's also a good challenge, but I wouldn't be playing if all I won is pride.

Online poker should help you realize though that by far the best way to read your opponent is betting patterns (A betting pattern is remembering how an opponent bets in every situation, for example does he bet big with a made hand or when he is bluffing?). When Daniel Negreanu (best flat-out reader of cards IMO) calls a bluff on the river, it's usually because the betting pattern is off. Not because the guy looks scared or something. Usually pros will look at betting pattern first, and then look for physical tells.

But here I am rambling in depth about poker when all you want to do is get drunk and catch your friend bluffing.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by fotze

Would it be of any benefit to play online with three other guys in the same room or is that not possible on online poker?

Used to be possible, but my roommate and I tried to get into the same cash game on pokerstars the other day and were told we were not allowed to play together. Same IP address, I guess.

[Titan]

Originally Posted by troutman

Poker is another language. Who could understand this, except other poker players?

The lawyer is making this observation?

[Rhettzky]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

Online poker should help you realize though that by far the best way to read your opponent is betting patterns (A betting pattern is remembering how an opponent bets in every situation, for example does he bet big with a made hand or when he is bluffing?). When Daniel Negreanu (best flat-out reader of cards IMO) calls a bluff on the river, it's usually because the betting pattern is off. Not because the guy looks scared or something. Usually pros will look at betting pattern first, and then look for physical tells.

Without a doubt. I've seen many a time when the guy can call out an opponents pocket cards even before the river. In his book he mentions that his table talking helps pull additional information from opponents without them even realizing it. But yeah, most of it is betting pattern.

[return to the red]

Originally Posted by ericschand

Online you see many many more hands than at a casino or house game.

Thus, the number of bad beats you see will also increase.

However, I think most sites are rigged. Not an advantage to the house per se,
they get their money anyways, rather rigged on trying to keep people around
and drive the rake up.

Something along the lines of how long you have been a customer, plus your
skill level, plus your playing history, the amount you deposit, etc. And some
times if you are plus plus plus on all those, you win. Other times you lose.
The pendulum swings all over the place, changing every so often. The
formula on who wins may change given all sorts of conditions.

Make sure the poor players can win enough to stick around, but also
make sure the good players also win every so often to keep them around.

Can the games be audited and determined fair? Sure, not too difficult
to make sure of that too, after all if you pre-determine the outcome,
you can pre-determine 1 billion hands too. It just matters on who
gets what hands and when.

Good post, my thoughts exactly based on personal experience

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by arsenal

It can help. If you are all at the same table, and you are working together, then you will know 6 cards (including your 2 hole cards) that are not available to other players, and wont show up at all in the community cards.

There are other ways for people collaborating to cheat at a poker table. You can see-saw an opponent, raising and re-raising them postflop almost every hand, regardless of what you hold--which means that if they're even medium-tight they have to fold 90% of the time. There are other tricks too, but I'm not really an expert--as I'm sure one poster will be quick to point out.

Even controlling IP addresses wouldn't eliminate this in the age of the cell phone, I don't imagine.

[return to the red]

here's a question for you. What is stopping me from registering in a sit and go on my home PC, taking my work laptop home, using someone's wireless internet and playing two hands on one table?

[arsenal]

Originally Posted by return to the red

here's a question for you. What is stopping me from registering in a sit and go on my home PC, taking my work laptop home, using someone's wireless internet and playing two hands on one table?

Nothing. You just cant be connected throught the same IP.