I LOVE Jenkins' proposal to subway the LRT downtown. If I'm correct there's actually already a partially finished tunnel by City Hall that was axed in the 80's after Edmonton's problems.
I've heard that those tunnels are now laced with tons of utility lines, and the cost of moving those lines out of those tunnels would be astronomical. I really couldn't give you a cost though since it's all hearsay and rumours, hexes and witchcraft and such.
I've heard that those tunnels are now laced with tons of utility lines, and the cost of moving those lines out of those tunnels would be astronomical. I really couldn't give you a cost though since it's all hearsay and rumours, hexes and witchcraft and such.
I've heard from a city planner that it would be about 600 to 900 million to bury the ctrain downtown. If that is true, then it's a nice idea but not worth it.
Very disingenious of candidates to say yea I'd bury it without talking about the actual cost. They don't have the burden of actually being responsible for the decision.
Bronco is just ok, not great, but better in the last year or so. Alnoor just seems like a bunch of signs and adviertising, but a flakey past ... some may say a wide range of things, I wonder if he's just moving from failure to failure ... I don't reallly know though.
I think Jenkins is a little populist for me.
Last edited by Flames in 07; 10-10-2007 at 08:24 PM.
Moving the C-Train under 8th ave is the single handed biggest thing we can do to benefit Calgary Traffic! I've seen train back up 5 deep crossing from Sunnyside into downtown in the morning and things are only going to get worse when there is all that extra traffic from the west leg. The trains down 7th and unefficient and slowing down both vehicle and transit traffic. the 4 car trains idea is great and all but has anyone stopped to think that they don't fit within city blocks running north south from the NW line?! A 3 car train is end to end in between 5th and 6th ave as it stands already. Having 4 car trains means that the already backed up c-trains will back up further past Sunnyside because they can no longer wait downtown. A train has to go from the Sunnyside bridge straight to 10th street station or it'll block 5th or 6th ave.
To be honest I hadn't even heard of Jenkin's until this thread but I like some of his ideas...
Sooner or later the underground LRT is going to be a must (if it's not already), but is it the time to do so already or focus on other routes and station upgrade till we get really serious with it?
From what I hear from opinions, timeframe to start would be post 2015. After the West LRT and SE LRT leg is built.
But, I have heard that the federal government may be handing some money for a major infrastructure projects simlar to what they did to Toronto (something like multi billions over multi year frame. Can't remember the figures, but it was big), which would help our LRT situation move faster
Where do most MRC students live, and would LRT really be that useful to them? I would think they would be better served by a better bus network in the MRC vicinity, where most of them probably actually live. LRT would actually be detrimental to this cause as it would compete for resources (budget) with the regular bus transit system.
The problem with making the route only go to MRC, is how will they route the train back to the proposed west leg end? Especially with the Westbrook Mall being the major station on this line. If they're gonna attempt that, they got some residential areas to go through which people may not be too happy about, plus they would have to do a bunch of proposing for this area. The best case to do for MRC is a BRT line to it if desired, or later on make an attached train line feeder to the place.
Bronco'll be getting my vote. I guess I'm happy with the LRT expansion and interchanges I've sen under his rule. Nothing to really tick me off except a little friction on the water sharing with the MD Rockyview. That'll all get resolved though.
Just out of curiosity, why isn't this poll public?
1) DO NOT SPEND THE MONEY TO PUT THE TRAINS UNDERGROUND. I'm here in Edmonton, where downtown LRT lines are underground. It cost so much money the trains don't go anywhere. Imagine if you're entire LRT system went from Downtown, to Erlton, possibly Chinook. That's what we have in Edmonton. This city would be miles and miles ahead if they had expanded the LRT the way Calgary has.
2) I don't think they can put it underground downtown - without costing billions. My understanding is that the reason they didn't put it underground in the 80's was because Calgary's water table downtown is too high. Edmonton's downtown is a few hundred feet above the river, whereas Calgary is right at river level. That was the reason it was scrapped - not because of being concerned about Edmonton's problems.
3) Bronconnier is a tool and should be punted out of office.
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"OOOOOOHHHHHHH those Russians" - Boney M
1) DO NOT SPEND THE MONEY TO PUT THE TRAINS UNDERGROUND. I'm here in Edmonton, where downtown LRT lines are underground. It cost so much money the trains don't go anywhere. Imagine if you're entire LRT system went from Downtown, to Erlton, possibly Chinook. That's what we have in Edmonton. This city would be miles and miles ahead if they had expanded the LRT the way Calgary has.
3) Bronconnier is a tool and should be punted out of office.
I suppose your city would be miles and mile ahead if you had a mayor that would buck up and expand your LRT.
In my mind's eye, I can still see that billboard on 14th street in the nineties featuring Bronco shaking Jean Chretien's hand.
Yeah, yeah, I know that there's a big difference between federal and municipal politics, but how could anyone think that could've gone over in Calgary?
The problem with making the route only go to MRC, is how will they route the train back to the proposed west leg end?
If you read his platform further it states that after going through MRC and Garrison Woods it would still head to Westgate for the park and ride customers. Word on the street is Bronco holds some commercial property just off the west LRT and as a result serves to benefit alot form the current line... I don't know if theres any truth behind this so take that with a grain of salt...
Quote:
Originally Posted by killer_carlson
1) DO NOT SPEND THE MONEY TO PUT THE TRAINS UNDERGROUND. I'm here in Edmonton, where downtown LRT lines are underground. It cost so much money the trains don't go anywhere. Imagine if you're entire LRT system went from Downtown, to Erlton, possibly Chinook. That's what we have in Edmonton. This city would be miles and miles ahead if they had expanded the LRT the way Calgary has.
2) I don't think they can put it underground downtown - without costing billions. My understanding is that the reason they didn't put it underground in the 80's was because Calgary's water table downtown is too high. Edmonton's downtown is a few hundred feet above the river, whereas Calgary is right at river level. That was the reason it was scrapped - not because of being concerned about Edmonton's problems.
3) Bronconnier is a tool and should be punted out of office.
1) The underground trains would only be under downtown to alleviate the congestion of the current system. I've never ridden the Edmonton train system but word on the street is it sucks and isn't anywhere near as successful as Calgary's system. Putting the lines underground wouldn't limit the use in anyway it would simply allow more people to use the system at peak time. Expanding West, NE, etc. is great but seriously where the hell are all those trains going to go when they get downtown??? It's underground or we need a secondary line above ground. 200,000 more riders?!?! No freakin way!!! The simple fact is with 3 lines there is already not enough platform space for the current loads and things will only get worse with more lines coming into downtown.
2) I've heard the water table argument as well but I've come to conclude that it's simply a myth. We've already got an underground station below city hall and last I checked it never floods. For that matter the tunnel on the way to the stampede is the same elevation and too my knowledge it never floods.
3) No arguments there...
I don't understand why no one feels an underground line can work in Calgary? We're talking about 15-20 blocks underground... I tend to believe that most opponents to this suggestion have never taken the train to work. The current system is already taxed to it's limits and it's only going to get worse if we don't remove the biggest bottle neck. It's going to be expensive but how much has Bronco spent on infrastructure for new communities in the last 6 years? Isn't it time that everybody else that commutes downtown gets a little infrastructure relief?
This isn't directed directly at you and tool is such a harsh word but...
An earlier poster said something along the lines of any mayor that has made his daily routine easier is doing a good job. On that note, I can't fault him at all on his decision. I'm sure if I used Stoney trail, Elbow drive or any of his other big interchange projects I too would be excited with the work he has done. However, what about those living in older developments, those closer to the downtown core. What has he done to improve my daily routine?
Sure, LRT ridership has increased over the last 6 years but so has it's cost and at the same time I've certainly seen my level of service decrease. I've also seen the roads around my place be narrowed just to limit traffic that was, in my opinion, never a real issue. The idea is to push public transit use but somewhere along the way they forgot to increase funding to public transit.
I've also heard talk of corruption but I'll wait to hear more facts on that one before i comment. However, I wouldn't be the least surprised if Bronco did in fact have a few developers hands in his pockets. Bronco has a lot of campaign money from sources he refuses to reveal. A developer stands to gain a lot from a mayor who has shown that he will allow developers to continue building outwards while providing them all of the necessary infrastructure for these developments to flourish.
Well, kevman, I can certainly see where you're coming from. At least you give reasons why Broncommier is a tool (IYO). My post merely contrasts KC's unsubstantiated claim that Bronconnier is a tool, while complaining that Edmonton's LRT doesn't extend far enough. (point being, under Bronco, the LRT has notibly expanded in Calgary)
My cousin's a civil engineer with the city, and I pick his brain about LRT stuff whenever I'm back in the city. A couple things:
The tunnel under Steven Avenue exists, you can see the tunnel head when you're passing by City Hall underground now. It's walled off, but there are provisions for stations at City Hall and Bankers' Hall at least. Any second downtown route that bypassed the tunnel (forfeiting the investment) would be more expensive by the amount originally spent to prepare that route, a detail overlooked in some quotes on what another downtown route would cost.
Underground LRT in downtown is a must, regardless of the cost. As it is the LRT has hit capacity on 7th avenue - there are only so many trains you can stuff through a street with stop lights on it. You can put way more through underground, obviously.
This talk of rerouting west LRT to MRC is rediculous. The current leg has been in the works for years and years, way before Bronco's time. One poster suggested he as a vested interest in the current alignment because of business interests. If that's true, it's coincidental.
The whole purpose of the Bow BRT line was as a stop-gap until the much-needed LRT leg is built.
There is a plan long-term to have a west leg up Bow, the SE leg (alignments down to a short list but still TBD last I heard), and a north leg up Centre St (or similar), so you end up with a system that looks like a big asterisk across the city.
A final note - I live in Toronto, where the subway system is good at what it does, but way too limited for the scale of the city. Investment in proper rapid transit (ie underground downtown) is WORTH IT! Streetcars, etc. have some role to play, but they've been used as subway substitutes here and the result is inferior service for a supposedly "world class" city. With massive cuts to the TTC, more like "world class dump" from this commuter's perspective.
I really hope Zhao continues to pursue politics. While I think he'd be largely ineffective and probably over his head right now, he's got some good ideas and a solid idea of how to achieve them. At least that's the impression I got from his website.
Poor kid won't win though.
I know exactly what you mean. I said the same thing to my friends today. I read his site, and he does have an excellent platform. I am really thinking about voting for him, maybe if he does well, he'll be inspired to try again. Who knows, he could end up being mayor one day when he's a bit older. I saw his interview on Global and the kid's got a good head on his shoulders. I wonder how he did in the debate.
I really hope Zhao continues to pursue politics. While I think he'd be largely ineffective and probably over his head right now, he's got some good ideas and a solid idea of how to achieve them. At least that's the impression I got from his website.
Poor kid won't win though.
I'm voting for him. He doesn't seem to be doing it as a joke or just for kicks. I respect him for getting the finances and signatures together to compete in a race he obviously has no chance of winning. There is no way I would vote for Bronco so why not support someone on the way up?
I was at duttons bar before the vancouver game on Sat. and I got "free tickets" from Sandy Jenkins. I was so excited, but after the girl who gave them to me left (she basically said: "Are you from Calgary? Ok. here are some free tickets."
Anyway, she left, and I looked and it was "Your ticket to vote...." not a free flames ticket like i was led to believe at first.
Man was i pissed.
That might just cost him my vote.
Rule #1:
Never give someone a free ticket unless it is an actual ticket.
