Francis: It's time for the Flames to get serious about bottoming out

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I hate internet bets, but if it's a 'gentleman's bet' meaning no stakes, I'll take it.
I think they get a late 1st and a B prospect.

If they get Bischel from Dallas though that still counts as a 1st right?

Yeah. Hanifin style return. Maybe even from Vegas again, LOL.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

100%

Re: Rasmus current trade value. Definitely in decline:
- Less contract to play with. Last TDL you had 2 playoff runs of rasmus and room to convince him to sign. This year he's a pure rental unless you trade with a contract signing (limiting your market to places he wants to extend.)
- Retention is less valuable because of contract length
- His play has been dog #### (playing 'well' -disagree- on the worst team in the league is basically meaningless)
- There are other RD on the market now where there were less before


I would make a strong bet with Jiri or TOFan that we will not get a 1st for Rasmus.
-

I'm 100% fine with fans thinking they should have traded Andersson earlier. None of us know the market now vs then, or what they turned down etc, but it's still a view a fan could have.

I take huge issue with the fact that Conroy wouldn't have had the same formula in his brain as every fan though. "when can we maximize his return? what is our price for this player? should we take this offer or hold for the price we have set".

It's not some Machiavellian plot to diminish returns or hurt the feeling of FLames fans.

And stats don't support your Andersson is playing like dog #### theory, and it's ironic because he's likely creating more non perimeter offence than any other player on the team right now and is still being hammered because he's a trade asset that hasn't been traded in front of an impatient fan.

[Vinny01]

The Flames will never come out and say that losing today will help them win tomorrow as that seemed to be the approach both Edmonton and Buffalo took after taking it on the chin from bad free agent signings or misses that could never get them over the hump. Edmonton drafted top 10 11 times in 13 years and is currently enjoying a 5 year run of making the playoffs where they lose in the conference finals and cup finals twice. They pulled themselves out of the rebuild by landing one of the games best players of all time.

Buffalo started their top 10 journey in 2013 and are also on a run of 11 top 10 picks in 13 seasons. They show no signs of getting out. Top picks Eichel and Reinhart have won cups elsewhere.

I think the Flames will recognize this is a reset year but I do not think they will view this as a long path back like the Sharks and Hawks have taken. Maybe having guys like Wolf, and Coronato along with vets like Weegar and Kadri they can avoid multiple years at the very bottom

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Why not believe what conroy and all other insiders are saying instead of esoterically believing that they are all lying to eachother for... reasons?

No they are telling the truth. They weren't trying to rebuild they have just failed (much to our fortune, ultimately.)

You do you!

I've learned from hockey execs and politicians for years that you're wasting your time assuming sound bytes are the whole or even partial truth!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

You what teams can afford/need/value in a run up to the POs, when roster size is not longer an issue.

Tell me what the Bruins paid for Jokiharju at the TDL? What did NYR pay for Soucy? Devils traded a 23 year former 3rd round pick to NYI for Cholowski.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Conroy needs to be ruthless. Have those convos with all vets this week.any guys with trade protection, sell them on a move and get a list in writing.

By the time he needs to worry about attracting talent we’ll have a top tier stadium and some elite skaters that guys will want to play with.

We should have traded Anderrson a long time ago. We should have asked Kadri to waive his NTC when he had more value as well.

Hopefully teams won't see that Kadri is old now and washed and he will still have some value.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Why not believe what conroy and all other insiders are saying instead of esoterically believing that they are all lying to eachother for... reasons?

No they are telling the truth. They weren't trying to rebuild they have just failed (much to our fortune, ultimately.)

A. What other insiders?

B. The reason you watch what they do instead of say is because it's the same as every other rebuilding team said except the NYR. The vast majority of fans are casual attendees who aren't into paying for a team that's admitting they don't care about wins.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

We should have traded Anderrson a long time ago. We should have asked Kadri to waive his NTC when he had more value as well.

Hopefully teams won't see that Kadri is old now and washed and he will still have some value.

Why do you assume there was no communication between the team and Kadri on his interest in waiving?

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Funkhouser

The Flames defacto core going forward the next few years (mix of untradables, key leaders and young potential):

Wolf
Parekh
Gridin
Coronato
Huberdeau
Weegar
Backlund
Sharongovich

Every other roster player should be on the table.

I think your list is way too long.

I think Wolf, Parekh, Coronato and that's it. Backlund is defacto Flame for life.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Why do you assume there was no communication between the team and Kadri on his interest in waiving?

Because at the deadline last year it was reported by our insiders that we had an amazing offer for Kadri, but we said no. We did not ask him to waive.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

Because at the deadline last year it was reported by our insiders that we had an amazing offer for Kadri, but we said no. We did not ask him to waive.

Because the team knew he would not perhaps because they had been communicating with each other.

If Kadri says he has no interest in waiving, then why ask him to waive?

[Vinny01]

I am very happy with what I think has been a sensible rebuild by Conroy. He flat out stated he was not going to lose his players for nothing like Treliving did and he also wanted to integrate young players in the lineup.

He has gone out to try and fill the gap of middle 20’s skaters by acquiring Sharangovich, Bahl, Frost and Farabee. Mixed bag of results and cost there.

I think he did a nice job of getting futures in the Markstrom, Lindholm, and Manhiapane deals. I thought he could have got more for Tanev, Zadorov, Hanifin, Toffoli at the time but I am glad he was able to get assets for those guys.

He has integrated young players like Wolf, Zary, Coronato. Now guys like Parekh, Honzek, and Gridin are getting looks.

He has picked 5x in the first round in his 3 drafts as GM and has 2 picks this upcoming year with assets to move to get more. The 2024 draft looked great from day 1 and has aged fairly well. I am just trusting that he has a good pulse on what we need now and moving forward.

The Flames of Old would have looked at last year and gone all in (Feaster for sure would have been selling last year as a launch pad). Conroy has been a little more guarded in his words. His actions speak even louder when he had assets and space to make this team immediately better but when his targets don’t land he showed restraint and do not overspend on someone who wasn’t the ideal fit.

I do believe bottoming out this year will respond with aggressive moves to get out of the basement but with the added assets coming in, a ton of caps space, and a nice pool of prospects Conroy will have as much ammo as any Flames GM in recent memory to go try and steal a RFA from another team

[Jiri Hrdina]

I will add, I doubt they would have traded Kadri at the deadline given where the team is at. And this is where there is just an impasse. Some believe that regardless of that, the team should have dealt away players. Others see that being a horrible message to a team that had worked all season to put themselves in that position. Both are valid POVs.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I will add, I doubt they would have traded Kadri at the deadline given where the team is at. And this is where there is just an impasse. Some believe that regardless of that, the team should have dealt away players. Others see that being a horrible message to a team that had worked all season to put themselves in that position. Both are valid POVs.

One of Conroy’s clear messages has been wanting guys who want to be here and when you have a top player who has a full NMC state he wants to stay why are they pushing him out the door? If a guy wants out I think Conroy will accommodate that request.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Sandman

We'll lose the draft lottery anyway.

You can build a very successful team without drafting 1st overall.

Have a little faith.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

You can build a very successful team without drafting 1st overall.

Have a little faith.

Vegas lost hill for a few weeks. Vegas will win the lottery for us. Kinda sucks we ignited Marner for them though.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

You can build a very successful team without drafting 1st overall.

Have a little faith.

I think it's been pretty often that the best player in the draft does not go #1. I think if you get in the top 5, you got a shot at BPA, unless there's like a Crosby at the top

[blankall]

Originally Posted by dino7c

His example is to draft Lane Hutson in the 2nd round lol

Juraj Slafkovsky I get

What're you talking about? Just use your 2nd round pick to draft a Calder winner. Pretty simple concept.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

We should have traded Anderrson a long time ago. We should have asked Kadri to waive his NTC when he had more value as well.

Hopefully teams won't see that Kadri is old now and washed and he will still have some value.

Funny I was thinking the complete opposite and that playoff teams might be lining up for Kadri. I think he's a difference maker in the playoffs.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by blankall

What're you talking about? Just use your 2nd round pick to draft a Calder winner. Pretty simple concept.

haha, and it wasn't even their high 2nd round pick because they sucked it was hilariously the Oilers 62nd overall pick