2023/24 No Hope Flames Rumours & Speculation Thread

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

My favorite part of this thread so far is the people who think the 5-1 flames in October 2022 were the real flames. And the next 76 games were all outlier events.

"My gf and I have a relationship that's really special. We had this amazing month together and it was so magical. Over the next 11 months, she cheated on me with 42 different people, but that wasn't real her. She was stressed cuz she had a bad boss that made her feel bad about herself. It was all her boss's fault. But now her boss has been fired. So, heading into our second year of our relationship, I can really feel the magic. We're such a great couple. She's a keeper." - Flame's optimist, probably.

Great analogy for doubles tennis.

[Manhattanboy]

Well this is fun from the Hockey Writers. The possibility the Flames could win it all this year.

https://apple.news/A1jp8KM0gTsGYjcbZmJuEJw

[1qqaaz]

This might be a hot take, but if the Flames won the cup, it would be on the back of Wolf, not Markstrom.

[Hackey]

Definitely isn't a hot take based on the way Markstrom has played recently.

[Redrum]

Ugh, yeah. Even if Markstrom started hot, you're building on quicksand.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I actually still believe that Markstrom is fully capable of turning it around and stealing a series. I look forward to seeing how he responds this year, especially with a different defensive system.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I actually still believe that Markstrom is fully capable of turning it around and stealing a series. I look forward to seeing how he responds this year, especially with a different defensive system.

My faith-o-meter is pointing pretty much at zero when I think of him going against the Oilers. Other than that, sure, I can see him rebounding.

[GullFoss]

https://dobberhockey.com/2023/09/11/...ck-in-2023-24/

Top 10 Players That Won’t Bounce Back In 2023-24 by
Tom Collins

Markstom and Kadri on the list lol

9. Jacob Markstrom

In the four seasons from 2017-18 to 2020-21, Markstrom’s wins ranged from 22 to 28, his shutouts from one to three, his goals against average from 2.68 to 2.77 and his save percentage from .904 to .918. He was probably the most consistent netminder in the league over that time. In 2021-22, he finished with 37 wins, nine shutouts, a 2.22 goals against average and a .922 save percentage. Last year, he dropped back to 23 wins, one shutout, 2.92 GAA and a .892 save percentage. Sure, his save percentage and goals against average dipped too much, but last year was a pretty normal year for Markstrom. Even with a new coaching change, you should expect another similar season for Markstrom.

4. Nazem Kadri

I’ve seen numerous predictions that expect a bounce-back season from Kadri, but what exactly are people hoping he bounces back to? There have only been three seasons in his career where he put up a minimum of a 60-point pace, and two of those were with Toronto. Sure, he had that massive 100-point pace season in his last year with Colorado, but that is an outlier. Last year, he finished with 56 points in 82 games, which equates to 0.68 points per game. His career average is 0.69. Expect another season below a 60-point pace.

[Strange Brew]

That Kadri argument is fairly convincing.

For markstrom, I will take a bounceback to the pre 2022 Markstrom. The stats they use are lame, with wins being their primary benchmark?

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

https://dobberhockey.com/2023/09/11/...ck-in-2023-24/

Top 10 Players That Won’t Bounce Back In 2023-24 by
Tom Collins

Markstom and Kadri on the list lol

The Markstrom write-up confuses me. He argues that Markstrom was maybe the most consistent goalie over the previous 5 seasons, acknowledges that his numbers dropped an alarming rate, but then says last year was normal for Markstrom and we should expect more...?

Am I misunderstanding that or is that a load of drivel?

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

https://dobberhockey.com/2023/09/11/...ck-in-2023-24/

Top 10 Players That Won’t Bounce Back In 2023-24 by
Tom Collins

Markstom and Kadri on the list lol

I don’t like his mix.

[Dan403]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Well this is fun from the Hockey Writers. The possibility the Flames could win it all this year.

https://apple.news/A1jp8KM0gTsGYjcbZmJuEJw

Some people deserve a punch in the Richard.

Not naming names, OP.

[Icantwhisper]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

The Markstrom write-up confuses me. He argues that Markstrom was maybe the most consistent goalie over the previous 5 seasons, acknowledges that his numbers dropped an alarming rate, but then says last year was normal for Markstrom and we should expect more...?

Am I misunderstanding that or is that a load of drivel?

for 5 seasons he was very consistent, then he had a great year (two years ago), then last year he performed worse than the 5 year pace but it looked way worse than it was because of the outlier year (two years ago).
Sounds like you read it as a 6 year story vs the 7 years he mentions

[sa226]

If Kadri was a 96 point players, he would have been paid much more than 7million.

He was paid for what he is, a 70pt top six centre with some good ol' truculence.

Sent from my SM-S918W using Tapatalk

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by sa226

If Kadri was a 96 point players, he would have been paid much more than 7million.

He was paid for what he is, a 70pt top six centre with some good ol' truculence.

Sent from my SM-S918W using Tapatalk

Kadri has only exceeded 60 points twice (61 in 82 games and 87 points in 71 games).

We certainly paid him to be a 70 point player but at 33 years old I think it's unlikely we see that from him again.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by sa226

If Kadri was a 96 point players, he would have been paid much more than 7million.

He was paid for what he is, a 70pt top six centre with some good ol' truculence.

Sent from my SM-S918W using Tapatalk

In a career that spans 14 seasons, I'd say calling Kadri a 70 point centre is a bit over the top.

He has crossed 70 points three times, and then has one other 67 point season. He's a 60 point centre, and plays with an edge. $7M for that is about market value. I think if he hits 55-65 points again, it's a strong season for Kadri.

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

In a career that spans 14 seasons, I'd say calling Kadri a 70 point centre is a bit over the top.

He has crossed 70 points three times, and then has one other 67 point season. He's a 60 point centre, and plays with an edge. $7M for that is about market value. I think if he hits 55-65 points again, it's a strong season for Kadri.

But scoring is up across the NHL. #inflation

[sa226]

Oh jeeze

Sorry I rounded up by 10. My point was that, that blurb made it sound like he's expected to underperform, because of the unearned expectation that he's a 95 point player. When his entire career says otherwise. The Colorado cup year was the outlier.

But for a 60pt top six centre coming off of a cup year, a 7million AAV is about what you'd expect. So the notion that he's going to disappoint seems very cherry picked.

[SuperMatt18]

Yeah for me last year with Kadri the production wasn't the issue - 24 goals and 56 points is actually right on his per 82 game average for his career, like exactly his career average.

It was that he lacked the tenacity and edge he played with most of his career, especially in the second half of the season.

If he can provide around 60 points in a second line role, and play with that edge then he's fair value at $7M IMO. He shouldn't be expected to get a PPG at a $7M salary.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Yeah for me last year with Kadri the production wasn't the issue - 24 goals and 56 points is actually right on his per 82 game average for his career, like exactly his career average.

It was that he lacked the tenacity and edge he played with most of his career, especially in the second half of the season.

If he can provide around 60 points in a second line role, and play with that edge then he's fair value at $7M IMO. He shouldn't be expected to get a PPG at a $7M salary.

Yeah I think the comment on the 2nd half of the season is fair to a degree. I think the perception of that is maybe a tad overblown because of that one ridiculously poor effort (against Chicago?). I also think those fans who hold the view that Kadri 'quitting' on the season was actually good leadership isn't the worst take, because it certainly led to the discourse around the toxic environment that had taken seed - and that seems to have been rooted out now in response to that discourse.

When I look at last year, I think Kadri's first season with the Flames wasn't bad in my eyes - but it certainly wasn't great.