[Trade] Flames trade Toffoli to NJ for RFA rights to Sharangovich and 80th OA

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Ignoring age in that equation.

Sharangovich is 25 with a career high 46 points in 76 games.

Toffoli is 31 with a career high of 73 points in 82 games.

I never try to look at things as just one season but if this trade was made in the 2022 offseason we probably wouldn't have hated it.

Sharangovich was coming off 24 goals and 46 points in 76 games .
Toffoli was coming off 20 goals and 49 points in 74 games.

Over the last three seasons at 5v5:

Toffoli: GP - 208, G-40, P- 84
Sharangovich: GP-205, G-35, P-76

Starting to look a lot closer... and he's 6 years younger.

I'll predict right now that Sharangovich puts up more 5 on 5 points than Toffoli, over the next 3 years (Toffoli will get his PP points, playing with Hughes).

[dino7c]

Guy has played over 200 NHL games...he is already better than a lot of late firsts

Like the ones in the Iginla and Jaybo deals

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by traptor

It does make me wonder if management is even allowed to trade guys like toffoli with retained salary for pure futures.

I have a hard time believing no one would give a 1st (2023 or 2024)for toffoli 50% retained.

Conroy got younger and got a a pick but it's still essentially a hockey trade. Maybe it's him retooling within his allowed bounds.

Retaining and trading purely for futures may not even be an option from ownership.

I think they want the cap space for this year to try and sneak into the playoffs.

[dino7c]

There is no sneaking into the playoffs...it takes 96-100 points

You have to have a good season

[KipperFaNaTic]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Even if this is a "hockey trade" - we just traded a 73 point player for a 30 point player.

This is a brutally bad hockey trade. Wow.

I like this trade.

The 73 points this year was an anomaly for Toffoli. Just look at his previous stats.

Also, we are trading for the potential of Sharangovich to continue improving for the next 3+ years.

[camm13]

Originally Posted by dino7c

There is no sneaking into the playoffs...it takes 96-100 points

You have to have a good season

florida did being the 17th team in the league by points....one behind the flames

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by traptor

It does make me wonder if management is even allowed to trade guys like toffoli with retained salary for pure futures.

I have a hard time believing no one would give a 1st (2023 or 2024)for toffoli 50% retained.

Conroy got younger and got a a pick but it's still essentially a hockey trade. Maybe it's him retooling within his allowed bounds.

Retaining and trading purely for futures may not even be an option from ownership.

Yeah, but Conroy has been abundantly clear that he believes this group can compete. He is not retaining salary under these circumstances even if he has total freedom to do so.

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[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Agree the market is the market- but very, very, very curious how much negotiation went into this. I have my doubts they scrubbed super hard on it for the sake of preserving a new GM relationship. Total guessing here, but if I’m right I don’t think that’s acceptable.

I don’t think a little more scrubbing moves the needle much. That’s an extra 6th type of material for a trade like this, or a similar level player swapped for the one we got.

There were likely multiple teams in on this. They didn’t have to preserve relationships, they just needed to beat the next guy’s offer. I have no doubt this was floated and wasn’t beaten by anybody. And working the negotiation a little harder doesn’t turn this into a 1st or whatever.

[Mr.Coffee]

Doubt it. My suspicion is a 2nd could have been had, but obviously just a hunch.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by MrMike

I think they want the cap space for this year to try and sneak into the playoffs.

I don't think the focus is on "sneaking in." Conroy believes this team can win.

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[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

They can probably get the same package or more at the TDL

But Conroy needs to do something and this was probably his best option

Unless he gets injured
Or his production falls
Or the market is flooded with other better forwards.

that's the risk you take if you hang on to him that has to be factored in.
So you weigh how much of a better deal you could get then v. now and those risks. And you have to factor in the value of the cap you create now.

Of course if they had held on to him you probably would be criticizing them for doing that too.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't think the focus is on "sneaking in." Conroy believes this team can win.

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Which is a mistake, because they can’t, and won’t.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Not really because the 2 years makes a big difference and Milano has a bigger body of work that shows he's probably not much more than that.

Sharangovich has much better per 82 game numbers in his only 3 NHL seasons.

20-21: 46 points, 24 goals per 82 games
21-22: 49 points, 26 goals per 82 games
22-23: 33 points, 14 goals per 82 games

So to me that is actually buying low on a player that had good NHL seasons at 22 and 23 years old, and maybe a down year in 22-23 in his 24 year old season.

At first glance sure the 73 points vs the 33 points looks bad for the Flames. But a 3 year view shows a young player that had a pretty good start to his career prior to this last season.

I guess I'm not very good at conveying my point. I'm not saying Sharangovich is going to be Milano. I'm saying that we're trying to zoom in on a stat to show that our 40pt player will be just as good as the 70pt player we just lost. If only we gave him PP time and more ice time he'd be just as good as Toffoli offensively, or not much of a downgrade. That's the narrative.

I'm just saying that if we chose to zoom in on those stats 5 on 5 Sharangovich can just as easily be compared to Milano. A player that didn't show much of anything while he was here. A similar narrative was spun when we got a player like Leivo or Czarnik. Anyways, an increased role and a change of scenery won't necessarily lead to an increased production, and expecting it is setting the fan base for disappointment.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Which is a mistake, because they can’t, and won’t.

I guess we will see what happens.

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[dino7c]

Originally Posted by camm13

florida did being the 17th team in the league by points....one behind the flames

It's rare and that was the east

The Flames would have needed 96 and that was with the Jets choking big time

Seattle needed 100 for a wild card

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

But looking at those stats and you can see that Yegor is also more than you're giving him credit for.

Last three seasons:

5v5

Toffoli: GP-208, G-40 , P-84, TOI-2571
Sharangovich: GP-205, G-35, P-76, TOI-2633

Power Play

Toffoli: GP-208, G - 25, P-51, TOI-501
Sharangovich: GP-205, G-4, P- 6, TOI-152

So pretty much all the difference in their production is PP. So then the question that I ask is Toffoli a much better PP player, or did he just get more opportunity.

Over the past three seasons

Even Strength
Coleman GP - 218, G - 43, P - 96

PP - Goals 1, Assists 0, Points - 1

Do we also think that maybe Coleman could perform the same as Toffoli if he got PP time?

[Jiri Hrdina]

I think the reality is that Sharangovich is a guy who is a top 6 forward but not a great one. So NJ went out an upgraded that position which made him redundant because he doesn't do the things they want in their bottom 6.

But for a team like the Flames that will try to retool he's a way of moving out an asset that is a pending UFA and resetting the clock while also filling a roster spot.

I think it's that simple.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I guess I'm not very good at conveying my point. I'm not saying Sharangovich is going to be Milano. I'm saying that we're trying to zoom in on a stat to show that our 40pt player will be just as good as the 70pt player we just lost. If only we gave him PP time and more ice time he'd be just as good as Toffoli offensively, or not much of a downgrade. That's the narrative.

I'm just saying that if we chose to zoom in on those stats 5 on 5 Sharangovich can just as easily be compared to Milano. A player that didn't show much of anything while he was here. A similar narrative was spun when we got a player like Leivo or Czarnik. Anyways an increased role and a change of scenery won't necessarily lead to increased production and expecting it is setting the fan base for disappointment.

Toffoli is not a 70 point player year in and year out. But the fact is he got way more PP time and attention here than anywhere else and it boosted his numbers. It may or may not for this kid but who’s to say it won’t? An increased role did wonders for Lindholm. It did wonders for Bennett in Fla. Look at what happened when Chandler Stephenson had to assume a bigger role in Vegas.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I guess we will see what happens.

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Uh yeah, guess so.

What is your actual opinion on all of this? You haven’t really gotten into detail. Do you think this group can win a cup? What do you think the Flames should do?

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Doubt it. My suspicion is a 2nd could have been had, but obviously just a hunch.

You’re probably right. Conroy took less than you suspect he could have received just ‘cause…