Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Playfair

Just an observation I’ve made. I have lurked on this page for awhile. Post a little bit. But it’s interesting how the dynamic of this page, which was once far more conservative, has become quite liberal. Also being located in Alberta seems, at least to my observation, out of sync with the rest of Alberta. I may be way off base, and it is a very generalized view, but it is what I’ve observed. Maybe because the definition of “liberal “ and “conservative “ has changed drastically since I joined. Maybe the changes in society in general. I don’t know. Forgive me if I shouldn’t have posted this but it is something I’ve been observing over the years.

Nevertheless I always have appreciated this page and all of you.

CP is pretty well educated and high earning relative to the general population, so the opinions here aren't going to quite match the "rah rah, they takin' er jobs and immigrants and liberals be too progressive!!!!!" opinions that permeate Alberta.

[jayswin]

If CP loses something in discussion over the general society it's compassion and understanding for the lower earners. A little too "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" and "things aren't as bad as people think if you just work hard and get yourself a good job and save and invest prudently" for my liking.

But it's expected when you get a wealthier user base. It's mostly white, privileged, and therefore educated and higher earning Calgarians. There's excellent perspective from them, but it's not wrong to say it's often biased or skewed, either. But still one that I appreciate without holding up as gospel like many here do.

Overall, it's nice to have this perspective as it's one I don't hear from much in the "real world", so it expands my world view, and it shows you that as much as wealthier people shouldn't look down on lower earners, the same can be said in the opposite direction.

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by jayswin

CP is pretty well educated and high earning relative to the general population, so the opinions here aren't going to quite match the "rah rah, they takin' er jobs and immigrants and liberals be too progressive!!!!!" opinions that permeate Alberta.

I always think it’s funny that people who identify with the Conservative Party get painted as uneducated, racist rednecks. Especially in Alberta, it shows what I feel is a pretty reckless ignorance to who actually votes conservative in this province, and does a great job of driving a wedge between people on the proverbial opposite sides of the fence.

[Fuzz]

They don't really do themselves any favours.

Spoiler!

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

I always think it’s funny that people who identify with the Conservative Party get painted as uneducated, racist rednecks. Especially in Alberta, it shows what I feel is a pretty reckless ignorance to who actually votes conservative in this province, and does a great job of driving a wedge between people on the proverbial opposite sides of the fence.

I don’t think that’s what jayswin was doing. It’s pretty clear that there are a lot of conservatives here that aren’t of the pejorative “backwater” ilk, just as jayswin was pointing out, just as most of the NDP (or Liberal, I guess if you want to pretend anyone far left supports them) supporters aren’t of the pejorative “mindlessly woke” ilk.

CP doesn’t represent either of these positions well, likely because (as jayswin said, which you unfairly characterized) most people are well-educated and middle aged. But denying that either of those fringes exist, who are often very loud in spaces that exist outside or CP, is just as funny.

Statistics show that uneducated rural voters are far more likely to vote Conservative. Considering that jayswin wasn’t suggesting that those are the only people who vote Conservative, are you suggesting that voting block doesn’t exist at all?

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Yoho

It’s unfortunate for the whiney under 40 college educated liberal posters that a majority of political orphans voted in the Alberta ruling party.

Most conservatives are too busy working to post on a message board all day about such pressing issues as the need for universal basic income and other hand outs/government spending, but make no mistake they are very much alive and well.

Nice try though.

Thankfully for us, your lazy ass has more than enough time to post on message boards. Hopefully you become more gainfully employee so you have less time to post.

[b1crunch]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

I always think it’s funny that people who identify with the Conservative Party get painted as uneducated, racist rednecks. Especially in Alberta, it shows what I feel is a pretty reckless ignorance to who actually votes conservative in this province, and does a great job of driving a wedge between people on the proverbial opposite sides of the fence.

I've spent the last decade and a bit living and working in rural Alberta. I've met thousands of people in my job and had conversations related to all sorts of things. Without fail, those that express racist ideas/feelings/whatever also support the conservatives at both the federal and provincial level.

However, out of the thousands of people I've met/talked to in my job, I've found that the racist ones are really only representative of maybe 5-10% of the population. The VAST majority of people I live and work with (who also predominately support the conservatives) are amazing people. They are humble, hardworking and community-focused. These people come from different educational backgrounds, but are all amazing people that are awesome to have as neighbours and colleagues.

It's unfortunate that ignorant people exist in our society, but it's ultimately unfair to paint an entire swath of the political spectrum with the actions of a few. This goes for both sides of the spectrum, obviously.

My opinion is obviously based on my own anecdotal life experience.

[Major Major]

If you identify with a party in 2023, you have been left in the dust intellectually. Don't care about your level of education, wealth or background. The ground has shifted beneath your feet and you are holding on to wind.

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by b1crunch

I've spent the last decade and a bit living and working in rural Alberta. I've met thousands of people in my job and had conversations related to all sorts of things. Without fail, those that express racist ideas/feelings/whatever also support the conservatives at both the federal and provincial level.

However, out of the thousands of people I've met/talked to in my job, I've found that the racist ones are really only representative of maybe 5-10% of the population. The VAST majority of people I live and work with (who also predominately support the conservatives) are amazing people. They are humble, hardworking and community-focused. These people come from different educational backgrounds, but are all amazing people that are awesome to have as neighbours and colleagues.

It's unfortunate that ignorant people exist in our society, but it's ultimately unfair to paint an entire swath of the political spectrum with the actions of a few. This goes for both sides of the spectrum, obviously.

My opinion is obviously based on my own anecdotal life experience.

Yes exactly, that’s been my experience as well, especially even as you come into urban Calgary and you realize that many educated, reasonable people there also vote conservative. My comment wasn’t directed to attack jayswin’s comment, moreso adding onto it that many people see that Alberta is conservative and assume that they’re this racist, redneck province that is the outcast of Canada, when in my experience, the majority of conservative voters are educated, well-to-do, and actually socially fairly liberal.

[shotinthebacklund]

When those "uneducated" rural people stop growing your food you might feel different. Many rural ranchers and farmers are educated in their fields. This speaks nothing to their education in their livelihoods of a lifelong career. Just because they are not educated in the fields of study some here consider important does not make them neanderthals. Once again posters here show their ignorance and chauvinistic attitudes.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by shotinthebacklund

When those "uneducated" rural people stop growing your food you might feel different. Many rural ranchers and farmers are educated in their fields. This speaks nothing to their education in their livelihoods of a lifelong career. Just because they are not educated in the fields of study some here consider important does not make them neanderthals. Once again posters here show their ignorance and chauvinistic attitudes.

I'll defer to farmers when I need food grown, just as they should defer to medical experts when a pandemic shows up.

[shotinthebacklund]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I'll defer to farmers when I need food grown, just as they should defer to medical experts when a pandemic shows up.

Excellent Strawman Fuzz. Well done.

[dustyanddaflames]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I'll defer to farmers when I need food grown, just as they should defer to medical experts when a pandemic shows up.

A lot of us did.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I'll defer to farmers when I need food grown, just as they should defer to medical experts when a pandemic shows up.

Farmers =/= rural people.

Trying to lecture cattle farmers on the benefits of vaccines is like trying to lecture a doctor on the benefits of vaccines.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by shotinthebacklund

When those "uneducated" rural people stop growing your food you might feel different. Many rural ranchers and farmers are educated in their fields. This speaks nothing to their education in their livelihoods of a lifelong career. Just because they are not educated in the fields of study some here consider important does not make them neanderthals. Once again posters here show their ignorance and chauvinistic attitudes.

Isn’t it ignorant to paint every rural person with the “farmer/rancher” cliché?

Did anyone say every person who lives outside of a city is an uneducated redneck? How is that less of a strawman than what Fuzz posted?

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Isn’t it ignorant to paint every rural person with the “farmer/rancher” cliché?

Did anyone say every person who lives outside of a city is an uneducated redneck? How is that less of a strawman than what Fuzz posted?

I think Calgarypuck has more nuanced opinions, like jayswin said, but I think as soon as you go to a more Canada-wide forum (Reddit for example), Albertans are definitely painted as an uneducated, redneck province that just wants to watch Canada burn, like Trumpists in the US. At the same time, there's definitely Albertans that see other provinces as the woke liberal snowflakes, so it definitely goes both ways.

It's too bad that that's how each side views the other because like I stated, it just drives a wedge between the two sides and creates so much animosity that you can't have constructive conversations about what will make Canada better. At the end of the day, I truly believe that both sides want better lives for themselves, their children, and all Canadians in general, but until we put our pitchforks down and try and understand the other side rather than demonizing them, we won't be able to make the progress we need to ensure a prosperous future for Canada. I know I'm guilty of it too sometimes.

[TheIronMaiden]

Reddit is only good for two things.

1. porn
2. really specific answers to really specific questions


Everything else is awful.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

I think Calgarypuck has more nuanced opinions, like jayswin said, but I think as soon as you go to a more Canada-wide forum (Reddit for example), Albertans are definitely painted as an uneducated, redneck province that just wants to watch Canada burn, like Trumpists in the US. At the same time, there's definitely Albertans that see other provinces as the woke liberal snowflakes, so it definitely goes both ways.

It's too bad that that's how each side views the other because like I stated, it just drives a wedge between the two sides and creates so much animosity that you can't have constructive conversations about what will make Canada better. At the end of the day, I truly believe that both sides want better lives for themselves, their children, and all Canadians in general, but until we put our pitchforks down and try and understand the other side rather than demonizing them, we won't be able to make the progress we need to ensure a prosperous future for Canada. I know I'm guilty of it too sometimes.

And why do you think that is?

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

And why do you think that is?

Because people like to focus on small differences as a means to solidify their own identities as special.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcis...ll_differences

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

And why do you think that is?

Not sure if I'm misinterpreting this condescending tone and if this is rhetorical/mocking, or a serious question, but given our previous back and forths....

Any time you want to have a serious, nuanced, open conversation off board, I'm all ears, Fuzz.