Bell vs. Star Choice Debate Again- Split

[HOOT]

Well I'm glad I had to take off to work when this argument started!

Its just like anything in life where there is competition people are going to have their favorites or have a bad expereince with a company.

I know there are people that hate Bell but there are some people like myself who love their programming and love their equipment...could that have anything to do with working for them for 3 year, maybe, but even during the times where customer service would frustrate me, I would just remember the times that Shaw screwed me over with wrong billing and it made me realize it happens with every company its just luck of the draw.

I have friends and family who work for Shaw as installers and customer service reps and they have ExpressVu because of the quality of channels. I find it funny when my friends with Shaw/SC come over and see my HD and go "holy smokes mine doesn't look like this". They even get an employee discount but would rather have more channels and choice. There is no denying that Bell is a leader in HD within Canada...will Shaw follow shortly of course they do else they will lose business. Make fun of the Rush/Oasis/Eqator but I actually enjoy those channels as a lot of people do.

Bell in 2005 profitted about $19 billion dollars(As a whole BCE, but ExpressVu is a big chuck of it)...so you have to figure they are doing something right somewhere!

I honestly don't think this is a topic worth agruing about because everyone has their personal views. This is almost like the debate is Chevy better than Ford? Or dose Pepsi taste better than Coke? Or how about are the Oilers better than the Flames?

It depends on who you ask and what their expereince with the product is...has nothing to do with better programming or customer service. When I use to work for Bell I would get people coming in to tell me how awesome the customer service is and some would tell me how much they hate it. In this world no one is ever happy unless they get exactly what they want and they are always looking for someone to blame!

Also I still know a lot of people that work for Bell I will do some digging on what their plans are for the 9200, as I have 3 of them and would be pissed also. Not that I paid anyhting for them...but thats besides the point!

Good luck with this debate...

[fanforever1986]

Originally Posted by OilKiller

They do nothing more than simsub American content. CTV wanted to delay the broadcast of the Junos so it could show Desperate Housewives in it's regular timeslot. That's how Canadian they are. Only when the CRTC was flooded with complaints did CTV back away from that stance. These stations, Global/CTV/City only exist to make as much money as they can off of content we get anyway from U.S. nets. The only cancon they provide is what is absolutely required in order for them to keep their license. All of that money we are paying to watch these channels/services is being sent over the border to buy U.S. content we get anyway on U.S. nets. If they are so "Canadian", then why don't they invest that money into the creation of actual "Canadian" content created HERE in Canada with more jobs for Canadians? Why? Because it's all about the easiest most cost effective way they can take advantage of an outdated system so they can make as much money as possible. It has nothing to do with serving "Canadians" or protecting any Canadian "heritage". That's the mask they hide behind to keep filling their pockets.


Got any proof that Shaw (who is adding numerous HD services tomorrow) doesn't want HD to exist? Got any proof that Bell is is pushing for implementation of more HD in Canada or they are simply trying to make the most money they can on their OWN owned channels?

See my first statement above. The day Canwest Global or BGM puts out money for HD towers all over Canada is the day pigs fly out of my a**.

You're arguing against a capitalistic point of view...what can I say? I'm sorry they are making money? The Juno's ratings tanked this year. BGM saw that coming. The Juno's are about as important as the molson 3 star lunch in. BGM is doing much more to provide Canadians with orginal programming than Shaw.

I believe I already posted this, but in an interview that aired on a news talk radio station in Vancouver, Shaw said that they would be pushing Digital Phone more than HDTV because they felt there was more money to be made, and their network could not handle much more HDTV at the time. I'm not sure what type of upgrades they've made, but certainly haven't heard of any.

You're purely speculating saying this. CBC has put a Western Canadian HD truck into production, TSN has multiple HD mobile production units...It seems that an upgrade to OTA signals across North America to digital is only a matter of time. Surely you know the CRTC will one day require that all analog signals be made digital?

[ken0042]

Well, a few points from me.

- I have Bell; primarily for NHL-CI. But I have considered switching to Star Choice partly for the simsub issues that Oilkiller pointed out. To me Star Choice is the Mac to the PC, or the Beta to the VHS. In so many ways the one is better than the other, but the other one remains more popular than the other.

- I have to wonder if Canada will really go for OTA HD like in the States. With how spread out we are, and for the percentage of us that already have cable or satellite, I wonder if the costs from the broadcasters is something they'd want to cover; given the choice.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by fanforever1986

You're arguing against a capitalistic point of view...what can I say? I'm sorry they are making money? The Juno's ratings tanked this year. BGM saw that coming. The Juno's are about as important as the molson 3 star lunch in. BGM is doing much more to provide Canadians with orginal programming than Shaw.

I believe I already posted this, but in an interview that aired on a news talk radio station in Vancouver, Shaw said that they would be pushing Digital Phone more than HDTV because they felt there was more money to be made, and their network could not handle much more HDTV at the time. I'm not sure what type of upgrades they've made, but certainly haven't heard of any.

You're purely speculating saying this. CBC has put a Western Canadian HD truck into production, TSN has multiple HD mobile production units...It seems that an upgrade to OTA signals across North America to digital is only a matter of time. Surely you know the CRTC will one day require that all analog signals be made digital?

Wait, you were the one promoting Bell because "They're Canadian. Both of them provide original programming." OilKiller points out how big the "Canadian" aspect matter, since they wanted to delay coverage of the Junos. So you resond back with "I"m sorry they are making money?" Way to shift the argument. You are in fact backing up OilKiller's claim about how the Canadian networks make most of their money by retransmitting American content. So why are you arguing with him?

Your statement about an interview you heard on the radio really adds nothing to the debate. Digital phone has not been up for discussion, but if Shaw thinks there is more money in digital phone service, what does it matter? I'm sorry Shaw is making money? The fact is, Shaw and StarChoice just added a bunch more HD programming, so that makes the whole "Shaw doesn't care/can't handle additional HD" statement spurious.

And finally, digital TV <> HDtv. Take a look at all the newer digital channels in the past few years and only a portion of them will have been in HD. The terms are not interchangeable.

[fanforever1986]

Originally Posted by ken0042

- I have to wonder if Canada will really go for OTA HD like in the States. With how spread out we are, and for the percentage of us that already have cable or satellite, I wonder if the costs from the broadcasters is something they'd want to cover; given the choice.

It certainly will be interesting as to when OTA becomes digital. The US has a cut off date for analog, which IIRC is sometime in 2009. Canada is said to be around 4 years behind the US in the transition, so anywhere between 2012 and 2015 seems to be realistic.
Here's a quote from the CRTC conference on OTA last November:

With respect to the transition to digital television, the 1999 Policy recognized the eventual replacement of analog with digital technology and noted that stations in the U.S. were beginning this transition. The Commission also recognized that the costs of transition would be significant, and that the regulatory framework should permit the industry to react quickly and appropriately to the pressures it would face. However, the 1999 Policy did not anticipate the rapid consumer acceptance of high-definition (HD) television receivers or the slow pace of transition to digital on the part of Canadian OTA television. It is now estimated by Canadian Digital Television, an industry organization that provides information on the implementation of HD television in Canada, that the Canadian transition to digital is lagging behind the U.S. by at least four years.

http://crtc.gc.ca/archive/ENG/Hearings/2006/n2006-5.htm

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Well, a few points from me.

- I have Bell; primarily for NHL-CI. But I have considered switching to Star Choice partly for the simsub issues that Oilkiller pointed out. To me Star Choice is the Mac to the PC, or the Beta to the VHS. In so many ways the one is better than the other, but the other one remains more popular than the other.

- I have to wonder if Canada will really go for OTA HD like in the States. With how spread out we are, and for the percentage of us that already have cable or satellite, I wonder if the costs from the broadcasters is something they'd want to cover; given the choice.

NHL-CI is the only reason I would consider changing, but as it is a huge percentage of Flames games are available, so the benefit of CI is fairly negligible to me.

I watch most of my prime time shows from the Eastern feeds, so I tend to avoid most sim-subbing. (StarChoice uses your billing postal code to determine what simsubs are required, and the "subbing" is done at your box level. If you unplug then plug back in, the simsub is gone for a short bit until the box re-syncs, usually only a few minutes)


I've known people who have switched to get more HD content from BEV. That has been a valid reason. But with the new offerings now available I think that isn't anywhere near as big an issue as it has been up to this point. Both offerings are fairly similar. I think Bell's hardware is probably still better than StarChoice's hardware, especially PVR (unless that issue has been fixed). StarChoice's simsubbing is much better than EVU. Both now have similar programming. Each person needs to look at what they watch on TV, then decide which service suits them best.

[fanforever1986]

Wait, you were the one promoting Bell because "They're Canadian. Both of them provide original programming." OilKiller points out how big the "Canadian" aspect matter, since they wanted to delay coverage of the Junos. So you resond back with "I"m sorry they are making money?" Way to shift the argument. You are in fact backing up OilKiller's claim about how the Canadian networks make most of their money by retransmitting American content. So why are you arguing with him?

Our arguements differ in that he feels that these types of stations are not important to add to a channel lineup, whereas I feel they are.

Your statement about an interview you heard on the radio really adds nothing to the debate. Digital phone has not been up for discussion, but if Shaw thinks there is more money in digital phone service, what does it matter? I'm sorry Shaw is making money? The fact is, Shaw and StarChoice just added a bunch more HD programming, so that makes the whole "Shaw doesn't care/can't handle additional HD" statement spurious.

Reading through various internet forums, such as Digital Homes Canada, you'll see a recurring attitude from in the know costumers, who say Shaw is only now beginning to catch up to where Bell was 3 years ago in terms of HD. It also seems fairly consistant that they feel the more HD shaw adds, the higher the compression rates/lower PQ will be. Shaw saying they can't handle more HD in the relatively recent past, I would argue, adds much to the debate.

And finally, digital TV <> HDtv. Take a look at all the newer digital channels in the past few years and only a portion of them will have been in HD. The terms are not interchangeable.

HDTV will be the norm for TV one day. Just as black and white changed to Color. The resolution of each channel may differ, but rest assured 4:3 480i analog TV is on the way out.

[greerb]

I used to have BELL and I couldn't stand thier customer service. Wait times were ok but thier personel were pricks.

Now I have Starchoice Thier customer service is great. I like the packaging I have though I wouldn't mind more HD and MuchLOUD.

On the simsub issue I hope that Star/Shaw never gets GlobalHD completly useless, no origional programming and they have the broadcasting rights to the Superbowl, that means NO AMERICAN comercials. Star choice will be switching to 8PSK, they then can carry 3-4 HD channels per transponder instead of 2. They are looking at carrying 48 HD channels by the end of October. As well I have also heard from inside sources that Starchoice will be carring C.I. next season and possible Shaw will be adding it the year after that. So it sounds like they are heading in the right direction, if it hapens or not that's the next thing.

The only downside is thier equiptment sucks. I have thier DVR and it is brutal. Hopefully thier next gen (whenever it comes out) has a bigger HD and supports HDMI.

Currently for HD we have
CTV-E
CBC-E
NBC-E & W
CBS-E & W
ABC-E
PBS-E
TSN
Sportsnet
WGN
HDNet
Discovery
A&E
National Geographic
Showcase
Movie Central
2 French Channels
and they just added a second CDC HD FEED incase the early game goes into OT.

[automaton 3]

We've had pretty good luck with Starchoice. Their customer service has been very good.

My inlaws are switching over from Bell to Starchoice due to frustration with ongoing billing issues and brutal customer service. Sounds like others are having the same problems.

[Vulcan]

I've been with Bell for 7 or 8 years. I signed up because they were the only ones who carried my specialty channel. I was happy with the picture, price and programming. A few years later I began to have billing problems and even though I was paying over $100 a month, this CSR accused me of theft because my phone connection quit working. Me being naive, I didn't even know you could steal the signal. Interesting. I've had a number of billing problems and sometimes they've even come through with good service but if they don't come through with a decent deal on a new reciever, when they upgrade their system, I'll be looking at Starchoice. Where I am Shaw has trouble giving me decent internet, although their customer sevice is good, so I wouldn't trust their HDTV.

[burn_baby_burn]

Anyone know why Bell doesn't have Showcase HD? Kenny and Spenny is available in HD and I don't see why they can offer SD Showcase and not have HD Showcase.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

Anyone know why Bell doesn't have Showcase HD? Kenny and Spenny is available in HD and I don't see why they can offer SD Showcase and not have HD Showcase.

I think Bell is pretty well maxed out [bandwidth] on what HD channels they can offer. They're cutting some SD channels I hear in order to add a HD channel but I think they can broadcast 5 SD channels for every HD channel.
This is why they'll be bringing in a new HD system [mpeg4 I think] and will be adding another satellite . This will require new receivers [reportably this summer] which will make the current ones, 6200 + 9200, obsolete. It's going to be interesting.

[ikaris]

Personally for me, the content available on Shaw is all that I want (20 channels in HD along with all the other channels). While I understand different people want different things, after dealing with Bell's "customer service" I will never go back.

Besides, I save alot of money by bundling my phone, internet, and cable.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by fotze

Well, any of you guys want to take a guess if they creditted my account for the amount that they said they would. Anyone? Hoot? A guess? Credit? Account?

OF COURSE THEY DIDN'T.

Anyone want to guess if the guy is now disputing the credit even thought the person last month said it was valid? Anyone? Guess?

Typical.

It would make me feel better if I knew that my Bell story has scared anyone away from them out there? Anyone?

Have you tried e-mailing Bell at their television support page and let them know you're also e-mailing the CRTC?

[ken0042]

The only thing that I have found that works is letting them know that you're recording the call for your own records. Even if you don't really record it, they can never come back and say "didn't you record the last call" without you being able to come back with "A-ha! So you do have a record of the last call where we talked about the bill credit."

There's also a little known credit called a "satisfaction credit." It can range anywhere from $27 to $100.