Ian Cole suspended pending investigation into sexual assault and grooming allegations

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by jammies

This is also a boring post. Why don't you instead try to be better?

Maybe change your signature to "The real victims are those accused of sexual assault." and be done with the subject. You can likely get a custom bumper sticker with the same message - surely a caravan of supporters will fall in behind you, honking their support for your cause!

Yup, as soon as you get a bumper sticker that says I don't believe in knowing the whole story before jumping to conclusions and declaring everyone guilty because I don't have the mental capacity to think things through.

[Locke]

Is this still going on? Holy hell...

Nobody cares about Ian Cole this much. Even his mom is probably tired of this.

[Fuzzy14]

It wasn’t quite that long ago. But let’s just say there aren’t any judges still there.

With Abella having just retired, you were probably only recently able to start saying this!

[jammies]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Yup, as soon as you get a bumper sticker that says I don't believe in knowing the whole story before jumping to conclusions and declaring everyone guilty because I don't have the mental capacity to think things through.

That's poorly conceived, he font would be too small for people to read. I don't think you understand how bumper stickers work.

[OptimalTates]

Poorly conceived or not, you should start a CP GoFundMe to get that sticker for your car. Have it promised for playoffs and what could go wrong?

[Monahammer]

Constant, unforced errors. That's what this thread embodies. Now how stupid would people look if 3 months from now a mountain of evidence emerges?

There's no upside to taking this hard of a position on this matter. There's a #### ton of downside.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by manwiches

Lmao. The self righteous keyboard warriors. Y'all need to get laid

Sent from my SM-N975W using Tapatalk

The eternal call of the incel reigns supreme. It's an internet forum. No one is getting laid here.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Locke

Is this still going on? Holy hell...

Nobody cares about Ian Cole this much. Even his mom is probably tired of this.

Yeah, we moved on to getting laid now.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy14

With Abella having just retired, you were probably only recently able to start saying this!

Nope, I was pre-Abella. Bev McLachlan was the last hold out.

[Ryan Coke]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Constant, unforced errors. That's what this thread embodies. Now how stupid would people look if 3 months from now a mountain of evidence emerges?

There's no upside to taking this hard of a position on this matter. There's a #### ton of downside.

The main hard line is due process….certainly from me, and mostly what I read from others. I don’t think anyone gives 2 shirts about Ian Cole, I barely know who he is. He may well be a raping dirtbag, may well not be too. And if a mountain of evidence comes out that he’s done many bad man things then I hope he is punished severely.

I just don’t believe in crucifying someone’s character and removing them from his profession based on anonymous twitter allegations. I see no downside whatsoever to that point of view, and I see tremendous downside cheering for guilt without any evidence.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Ryan Coke

The main hard line is due process….certainly from me, and mostly what I read from others. I don’t think anyone gives 2 shirts about Ian Cole, I barely know who he is. He may well be a raping dirtbag, may well not be too. And if a mountain of evidence comes out that he’s done many bad man things then I hope he is punished severely.

I just don’t believe in crucifying someone’s character and removing them from his profession based on anonymous twitter allegations. I see no downside whatsoever to that point of view, and I see tremendous downside cheering for guilt without any evidence.

Who is cheering for guilt though? Much as you don't think you've read support for Cole (hm, disagree) I have not read anyone actively cheering for guilt. Who would do that anyway? Why would anyone want to cheer for a rapist to exist?

However, Cole is a person who has other confirmed stories in a similar vein, so I did read a lot of people lack surprise that this was potentially coming out, and a lot more people profess their continued shame that these events keep surrounding our preferred sport.

I find it remarkable that you continue to beat this drum when stats about unreported rape or sexual assault versus false accusations of rape/sexual assault have been shared. It is absolutely foolish to favor the smallest percentage and the belief that women are inherently lying about this type of accusation. Instead, believe that nearly all reports like this are made extremely seriously and after a lot of thought about potential consequences.

Was an anonymous twitter report the best vehicle for serious accusations? I don't think anyone would say that it was. Does it mean the accusations are false? No, and frankly the investigation the NHL did into them is a joke... but they are also largely left without other options for investigation because of how the information was delivered to them.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Who is cheering for guilt though? Much as you don't think you've read support for Cole (hm, disagree) I have not read anyone actively cheering for guilt. Who would do that anyway? Why would anyone want to cheer for a rapist to exist?

However, Cole is a person who has other confirmed stories in a similar vein, so I did read a lot of people lack surprise that this was potentially coming out, and a lot more people profess their continued shame that these events keep surrounding our preferred sport.

I find it remarkable that you continue to beat this drum when stats about unreported rape or sexual assault versus false accusations of rape/sexual assault have been shared. It is absolutely foolish to favor the smallest percentage and the belief that women are inherently lying about this type of accusation. Instead, believe that nearly all reports like this are made extremely seriously and after a lot of thought about potential consequences.

Was an anonymous twitter report the best vehicle for serious accusations? I don't think anyone would say that it was. Does it mean the accusations are false? No, and frankly the investigation the NHL did into them is a joke... but they are also largely left without other options for investigation because of how the information was delivered to them.

There is only good objective analysis and poor (or deliberately absent) objective analysis.

Many of the earlier posts in this thread were of the latter. It is okay to not have an opinion on Ian Cole's guilt, which is what the due process people are rightfully proposing.

[FanIn80]

I'm a pretty staunch advocate of proper and due process, but at no point in time would I ever suggest that justice shouldn't be served.

I just dream of a world where victims are protected, allowed to come forward and be listened to, and justice on their behalf be followed through on - while at the same time holding back on ruining the accused's life until they are actually found guilty inside a court of law.

Obviously that's really just a mission statement. There's a lot of stuff that has to happen in order for things to be perfected, including less situations where the final outcome still leaves people unsure of guilt or innocence. Like, it would be nice to have a system so trusted that the verdict is accepted as truth regardless of which way it lands.

I don't have a single idea how to make any of this happen, but what good is due process when victims don't trust it enough to make use of it, and innocent people are destroyed before it's even completed?

[powderjunkie]

It's incredibly silly to proselytize for vindication against a few random comments early in this thread [from posters who aren't even participating any more]. The wildfire hazard from the number of strawmen constructed in here is remarkable.

There was never anything resembling a rabbling mob calling for Ian Cole to lose everything. His character and reputation have been called into question. Everyone faces a few 'injustices' in the course of a lifetime in society...even IF Cole is totally innocent and this is one of his 'injustices', it's pretty silly for anyone else to clutch pearls on his behalf.

[Ryan Coke]

…..

[Ryan Coke]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

………

Your post claimed that people should “feel stupid if 3 months from now a mountain of evidence emerges” of his guilt. Why would someone who has been supportive of evidenced based judgement feel stupid for that? Do you feel stupid that he, as it stands, as been exonerated?

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the rumours are true and evidence does emerge, but on the other hand internet rumours are disgustingly unreliable and I would feel tremendous shame in making judgements based on them. I also don’t make judgements based on statistical probabilities of guilt or innocence (otherwise anyone ever accused of anything would be assumed to be guilty).

It also surprises me that some people can get upset at others who don’t blindly support internet mob mentality, and have such difficulty with the concept that evidence and due process is a foundational part of our society, and that someone who does feel that way actually gets accused of things like misogyny. But maybe it is consistent behaviour of someone who makes extreme judgements based on inadequate information.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

I have read claims of a broken society, ruining a persons life and “crucifying” a reputation. In reality, all I see are people expressing an opinion. One opinion is to let due process play out before speculating on guilt or innocence. A completely reasonable opinion indeed.

The only thing I would question, is whether that opinion is consistently held. Never questioned OJ’s guilt, before, during or even after the trial? Felt strongly about due process for Vince Li (Greyhound bus beheading) or any other high profile case? If so, congrats, but you would be interminably dull to chat with. We don’t generally deal with perfect information. Even after a trial, there will still be many remaining questions. Voicing an opinion on an opinion board is not the end of society as we know it, in particular when those opinions seem to honestly held and are generally proffered to try and improve the situation at large.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

I have read claims of a broken society, ruining a persons life and “crucifying” a reputation. In reality, all I see are people expressing an opinion. One opinion is to let due process play out before speculating on guilt or innocence. A completely reasonable opinion indeed.

The only thing I would question, is whether that opinion is consistently held. Never questioned OJ’s guilt, before, during or even after the trial? Felt strongly about due process for Vince Li (Greyhound bus beheading) or any other high profile case? If so, congrats, but you would be interminably dull to chat with. We don’t generally deal with perfect information. Even after a trial, there will still be many remaining questions. Voicing an opinion on an opinion board is not the end of society as we know it, in particular when those opinions seem to honestly held and are generally proffered to try and improve the situation at large.

To the bolded, without the drama of quoting actual posts on previous topics, I can tell you that it is not a consistently held opinion for a few of the loudest proponents of “due process” in this thread. Which is why the question of what motivates a person comes up.

And to the rest, I think you pretty much nailed it. These are opinions on a message board, and if anything, attempting to paint them as attempts to ruin someone’s life or upending the justice system is more ridiculous than anything else going on.

Posters like RC might be “surprised” people are “upset at people for not following the blind mob mentality” or whatever, but I can’t say it surprises me that people make up narratives like that to feel better about their position. If anything, I wonder what the motivation would be to make up things like that, or (if that’s a genuinely held belief of what is going on in this conversation) how someone comes to a belief that distanced from reality.

[Titan2]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Wow. For a supposed "lawyer" I would have expected you to read that post more carefully. For all any of us knows you are in fact smarter than Titan2 while still being much dumber than Mrs. GioforPM. Being one does not preclude the possibility of the other.

Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

I almost thanked this. Close miss.

If it makes anyone feel better you have to be a super-uber nerd to get into law school. To win a gold medal means you are the king of the super uber-nerds.

It allows you to get a SCC clerkship, a big firm job, work 100 hours a week and wish you were dead. But, I am sure there is an upside.

I think Gio may have swerved off that path somewhere judging by his free time to post.

[Titan2]

I think it is time to change the topic. So, any news about Willie Mitchell?