Matthew Tkachuk & Johnny Gaudreau Signing Watch Thread

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

When Stamkos signed his contract TB was the opposite of a top team - they missed the POs the season after he signed. Maybe he was prescient But they were still thinking Drouin was a future star.

And of course, when Landeskog signed, the Avs were in a similar position as the Flames. Fresh off a second round exit. And it was clear money was the issue for Landeskog anyway.

Both Stamkos and Landeskog had no intention of leaving their current teams, as long as the money was acceptable. Certainly they wanted as much as they could get, but their intentions were clear.

Johnny is not married to Calgary at all costs. In fact, he may end up leaving although Calgary has made him the largest money offer.

[activeStick]

Oh, Johnny. Look at what you do to the hardcore Flames fans! Just sign already!

I looked back at some old threads when Johnny was still a young pup in college and hadn't yet signed with the Flames - different times and situations but lots of similar sentiments from both sides. Bonus content for Skittles, Johnny's eating habits, diminutive stature and some jabs at Rhett!

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=136003
https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=126824
https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=129126
https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=134812

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

In the event Johnny chooses to play closer to home I really hope fans cut him some slack and don't turn on him as this isn't Tom Erixon or Adam Fox we are talking about. He came to Calgary, has been an all-time great Flame and by all accounts has enjoyed his time being a Flame and playing in this city. I'm sure this decision is one that has not been easy on him at all and whatever decisions he makes will be done in the best interests of himself and his family and we should respect that.

Yep. He already surpassed a couple of potential UFA years, not even considering that he could have held out for free agency after he was drafted. He doesn't owe anything to anyone but himself. I take him at his word that he is fond of Calgary and the Flames. Sometimes people just want to have other experiences. Whatever happens, I will continue to think highly of him.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Both Stamkos and Landeskog had no intention of leaving their current teams, as long as the money was acceptable. Certainly they wanted as much as they could get, but their intentions were clear.

Johnny is not married to Calgary at all costs. In fact, he may end up leaving although Calgary has made him the largest money offer.

Landeskog was pretty ready to move by all accounts. Sure he preferred to stay with what he was used to, but he also didn’t mind LV, TB, Toronto, and Florida.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Yep. He already surpassed a couple of potential UFA years, not even considering that he could have held out for free agency after he was drafted. He doesn't owe anything to anyone but himself. I take him at his word that he is fond of Calgary and the Flames. Sometimes people just want to have other experiences. Whatever happens, I will continue to think highly of him.

I think that as much as Johnny would like to live closer to home, his experiences in Calgary and with the Flames management has left him very conflicted.

I will not feel anything other than admiration for what he's done for Calgary regardless of his decision.

His spectacular season has likely made him more desirable for other teams unfortunately.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by browna

As mentioned a few weeks ago, both sides very likely know how this is turning out by this point.

Numbers and interested suitors have been finalized probably before the playoffs were over for the Flames, through, as mentioned, the various back channels of agents and intermediary people.

Gaudreau, if he's leaving, is not holding the Flames hostage by delaying any decision to the club, he would likely have already told them. Of course the the club would be using the same back channels right now to figure how who they may be able to get and how much as far as a UFA.

JG agent and him and the Flames know generally how much other teams will offer, and the Flames offer is probably pretty concrete too.

The big problem with the bolded is it assumes other teams are sitting on their hands just waiting/hoping that Johnny becomes available so they can pull the trigger. A LOT can change between now and the draft, let alone between the draft and UFA day.

None of us know how detailed these back-channel talks are (though Tre would), but we can be pretty sure that a player can't fully rely on them until the bells begin to ring on UFA day (or a team trades for his rights).

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I’d love to know if Gaudreau’s camp has put a formal counteroffer on the table. I’m betting they haven’t.

Which can be a savvy negotiating tactic, especially at this point. Keep the ball in CGY's court and simply say "You'll have to do better than that".

Originally Posted by dissentowner

So then are we taking the narrative that Johnny Gaudreau is a liar? He has certainly said he loves it here, his family loves it here, his wife loves it here, and he would like to stay. He has said this more times than I ever heard either Landeskog or Stamkos say that. I never heard LeBrun say Gaudreau wanted to go back East, just that could be a reason he doesn't stay. I find it interesting that Eric Francis used that as a reason he would leave for years and everybody bought into it. I mean how many players play far away from where they grew up? The majority of them. I am not buying this whole Johnny wants to be back East because he got put on the spot years ago on a Philly radio that it would be sweet to play for the Flyers one day. Gaudreau has grown up a lot since then, he has a new wife and an established life in Calgary now. Another thing to bare in mind, I can't remember who said it but someone in the media did say Gaudreau cares about records and legacy a lot. I just don't see any way he walks, I won't be sweating it until it is announced he is signed elsewhere.

Just guessing here, but you're probably a little less plugged in to the minutia of TBL and COL? Onus is on you here to dig up some quotes from those guys where they are cooler to the idea of re-signing.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Landeskog was pretty ready to move by all accounts. Sure he preferred to stay with what he was used to, but he also didn’t mind LV, TB, Toronto, and Florida.

Was that actually his desire, or was it more a matter of him accepting that there was no more room at the inn? And/or his version of calling COL's bluff [to get their final final final offer as high as possible]?

I honestly don't know, but the end result seems to demonstrate that he preferred to stay...

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

You're off by a year on Stamkos - they missed the playoffs in year 1 of his deal.

Stamkos
- TBL was coming off G7ECF and G6 SCF in the 2 previous years
- Florida tax advantage (which is generally overblown, but it's not nothing)
- he had the benefit of the courting period - so he could formally satisfy his curiousity without risking year 8


Landeskog
- COL clearly on the cusp of breaking through: 4 straight PO's; out in G7 G7 G6 of the 2nd rd previous 3 years (CGY's best season in JG's tenure doesn't match any of those)
- The expansion draft may have also created a bit of uncertainty and delayed negotiations a bit (losing Donskoi and his 3.9 AAV probably made it more possible to keep him than if they lost a cheaper D or something).
- Makar, MacKinnon, and Rantanen had clearly surpassed him in importance to the team and he probably took a pretty big discount to stay. The Kuemper trader happened the next day, so it seems COL had a lot of balls in the air - they may have wanted to keep flexibility to resolve their goalie issues
- Sweden is far away from anywhere in NA


There aren't really (m)any similarities with Johnny's situation...it could still happen, but this seems much closer to the NYI (Tavares) and CBJ (Panarin+Bob) situations where the teams tried hard to keep the players...

Stamkos - yes, I always meant they missed the POs in year one, which to me showed that they weren’t a top team.

Colorado on the cusp of greatness? Well they were, but you couldn’t tell it by the POs. They had been a disappointment. And the expansion draft? You know they exposed Landeskog right?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Was that actually his desire, or was it more a matter of him accepting that there was no more room at the inn? And/or his version of calling COL's bluff [to get their final final final offer as high as possible]?

I honestly don't know, but the end result seems to demonstrate that he preferred to stay...

He was captain. Of course he preferred to stay.

If Gaudreau leaves it seems clear to me he prefers to go and money is not a factor. So I agree to that extent. I’m just not sure that we can all assume he doesn’t want to stay.

[mile]

Feom Steinberg 5 days ago

https://flamesnation.ca/2022/06/17/w...aus-situation/

The last thing that falls under this category is my belief the Flames and Gaudreau were close to agreeing on something before this season began. It’s something I’ve gone back to many times when falling on the optimistic side of this conversation over the last nine months.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I said thost players wanted to stay in their markets yes. So? We really don't know if Johnny wants to stay in Calgary or play closer to home. I'm not exactly sure how you can extrapolate that I inferred Gaudreau is a liar out of that. You need a break man.

Except the player himself has said he wants to be here. He has said it more vocally than either of those other players. Has he not? He clearly has. So how can you possibly say you are not saying you don't believe the man if your stance is we don't know if he really wants to be here or not? I don't need a break, you need to own up to what you said.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Yeah, I don’t know why that particular poster gets so caught up on this issue and always has to bring in the narrative of Johnny being a liar. Two things can be true: that Johnny loves Calgary and is happy here and wants to stay AND finds a better fit closer to home and his family, which he also loves. Most people, if they’re lucky, have had to choose between two things they loved, or two things they wanted, but could only have one. It happens, it’s a sign of a good life.

I’m not going to fault the player if he goes, but it seems like some are ready to blow a gasket.

It’s just hockey.

I never said I would blow a gasket if he left, I said he has made his preferred intentions clear. But you keep doing your troll thing. It's just hockey is the perfect line for you because you don't give a rats ass about the Flames, the only reason you frequent these boards (mostly in the off topic) is to stir up the ####. You really should get a real hobby.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Except the player himself has said he wants to be here. He has said it more vocally than either of those other players. Has he not? He clearly has. So how can you possibly say you are not saying you don't believe the man if your stance is we don't know if he really wants to be here or not? I don't need a break, you need to own up to what you said.

Might be pedantic, but I think that you need to separate "want" from "need". This is a conversation I have frequently with my child.

I want a steak for dinner, but I need my dinner to cost less than $25. I can't find a steak for less than $25, so I may have to choose something else for dinner. I still want the steak, I have told everyone loudly how much I want to eat steak, and my intention never changed. But, the reality is that I can't afford steak and thus will eat a burger.

Johnny might want to stay in Calgary. But he probably needs to get certain contract conditions offered for staying in Calgary to be the reality. HOWEVER, it might also be the case that signing in Philadelphia (or elsewhere closer to home) comes with other conditions that effectively reduce the price tag. Does Johnny NEED to be in Calgary? I doubt that very much. Does he want to be in Calgary? I sure hope so, but that guarantees literally nothing. He could also want to be other places.

Small example, but it has been discussed ad nauseum that Johnny would prefer less air travel. That is not something that Calgary is in a position to supply- ever. Does that come in on the Need or Want list? I hope want.

[jayswin]

Oh my god, dissentowner. You're becoming the whole thread with this "he's signing here because he said he likes it here and everyone who predicts, suggests or speaks of otherwise is an idiot and needs to stop talking" thing.

It's really tiring. Can you please just give it a rest so we can focus on one of the most important decisions and topics in Flames history?

[nik-]

No player has ever said that he wants to stay in a place and then left.

I too go through the world with a childlike naivete.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

There likely is a huge difference,

Stamkos and Landeskog had zero intention of leaving their teams. And everyone knew it.

I doubt that Johnny’s view is that it’s Calgary or nothing.

That was my recollection as well. It was pretty much a forgone conclusion that the Avs were waiting until after the expansion draft to sign Landeskog, similar to what Washington did with Ovechkin. The Flames and Gaudreau do not have the same incentive to wait on this.

Not that him being unsigned at this point necessarily means the sky is falling. It's just that there is no reason to draw it out longer than it has to be unless one side has cold feet. Then again, for all we know, they have an agreement and are just waiting to file it. It's possible at least.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

And the expansion draft? You know they exposed Landeskog right?

And you know he was a UFA at the time. Many teams used that as a way of stashing an additional player. Didn't need to protect him as no viable reason for Seattle to select him. UFA's did not tend to get signed by their teams prior to the expansion draft.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

That was my recollection as well. It was pretty much a forgone conclusion that the Avs were waiting until after the expansion draft to sign Landeskog, similar to what Washington did with Ovechkin. The Flames and Gaudreau do not have the same incentive to wait on this.

Not that him not being unsigned at this point necessarily means the sky is falling. It's just that there is no reason to draw it out longer than it has to be unless one side has cold feet. Then again, for all we know, they have an agreement and are just waiting to file it. It's possible at least.

Well Landeskog was certainly frustrated by the wait.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Oh my god, dissentowner. You're becoming the whole thread with this "he's signing here because he said he likes it here and everyone who predicts, suggests or speaks of otherwise is an idiot and needs to stop talking" thing.

It's really tiring. Can you please just give it a rest so we can focus on one of the most important decisions and topics in Flames history?

I never said nobody could predict otherwise. I said saying Landeskog and Stamkos were different because they preferred to stay in their markets and Gaudreau doesn't isn't true. So how I am getting piled on because I am pointing out a proven false narrative? This place can be right damn bizarre at times. Yes, I should be quiet in posting any hope and optimism about the guy wanting to stay, I should not question anyone posting things that are false, I should embrace the posters who say he is leaving because he wants to go home even though the player had stated otherwise. On this, a discussion board, that is supposed to be a place where fan's voice their opinions, you can't question anything negative, you can't be positive, you can't voice your own views unless it fits the rest of the threads which tends to be negative. Wtf is wrong with this fanbase on here? Seriously, the fixation with everything going to hell in a handbasket instead of cheering for the team is so bizarre it's unreal.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Except the player himself has said he wants to be here. He has said it more vocally than either of those other players. Has he not? He clearly has. So how can you possibly say you are not saying you don't believe the man if your stance is we don't know if he really wants to be here or not? I don't need a break, you need to own up to what you said.

I have no doubt that Johnny loves Calgary and the Flames. I think he also loves the thought of being back in the Eastern US.

I doubt any statements made by Johnny a year ago meant he was staying in Calgary come hell or high water. He's now married, his wife may have an opinion on the matter. Things change.