08-12-2021, 09:48 AM
|
#301
|
NOT a cool kid
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Calgary
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by woolymammoth
Let's not be dense about it. Clearly you know how to post in the forums properly, right? ex mod?
Shall I post my flames jersey for sale here because it's about the flames too?
|
You could just gtfo and carry on ya?
|
|
|
08-12-2021, 09:50 AM
|
#302
|
First Line Centre
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Section 120
|
They should make it either a vaccine OR a negative test. There is a group of people who have conditions that don't allow them to safely get vaccines and they should not be discriminated against. If every attendee has a vaccine or a negative test, they should all be safe and no one would be discriminated against.
|
|
|
08-12-2021, 09:53 AM
|
#303
|
Scoring Winger
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Medicine Hat
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin
They should make it either a vaccine OR a negative test. There is a group of people who have conditions that don't allow them to safely get vaccines and they should not be discriminated against. If every attendee has a vaccine or a negative test, they should all be safe and no one would be discriminated against.
|
I don't think anyone here has a problem with the group that medically can't get vaccinated.
In fact, that's the point. That's why every person who CAN get vaccinated should. To protect those who CAN'T!.
|
|
|
The Following 20 Users Say Thank You to bzoo02 For This Useful Post:
|
BarDown,
brocoli,
Bunk,
Calgary4LIfe,
CroFlames,
CSharp,
direwolf,
Flame On,
IamNotKenKing,
Kasi,
KipperRules,
PaperBagger'14,
Pellanor,
SnipeShow,
The Fonz,
the_only_turek_fan,
Titan2,
Two Fivenagame,
Vinny01,
Zevo
|
08-12-2021, 09:54 AM
|
#304
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CGY
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by woolymammoth
Holy $!@% people. There is a covid sub forum for a reason.
An OP about Winnipeg jets Policy turns into another covid posting fest. Move along!! not everyone wants to come on a hockey forum to read about covid.
|
Anyone with half a brain can see what the topic is discussing and should be able to draw a logical conclusion if this thread has blown up more than 1 page then there is likely a Covid debate going on.
Pretty simple to avoid the thread altogether
|
|
|
08-12-2021, 09:56 AM
|
#305
|
Franchise Player
|
I think the Jets organization did the right thing to make sure they protect their fans and the community against any illnesses arising from COVID. I think the anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers are mostly thinking about themselves and no one else because they think their freedom will be infringed on. However, what they don't think about are others who will get infected, who will get very ill or even die. Those affected will likely be friends or family members; and it continues from there exponentially. When these people see that one of their close friends or family member passes away or have severe effects from COVID variants, then they'll see the importance of getting vaccinated and follow safety protocols. These anti-vaxxers and people not following safety medical protocols are also the burden on medical emergency staffs at hospitals. They don't think about that as well.
So, I ask, what's the risk of getting vaccinated vs the risk of actually infecting yourself and others and as well putting the burden on the health care system? Sure, this virus is here to stay, but we can minimize the risks of severe illness to you and to others if we're all immunized. It also puts our live back to normal faster and without overwhelming the healthcare system.
|
|
|
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to CSharp For This Useful Post:
|
|
08-12-2021, 09:56 AM
|
#306
|
First Line Centre
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Section 120
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by bzoo02
I don't think anyone here has a problem with the group that medically can't get vaccinated.
In fact, that's the point. That's why every person who CAN get vaccinated should. To protect those who CAN'T!.
|
The organization is discriminating against them by not allowing them to attend events. Also, for whatever freedoms and choice are worth these days, people who choose not to get a vaccine but test negative should have the right to attend. People with vaccines can still contract Covid, so if they're not tested they could technically be carrying it whereas the non-vaccinated person who is confirmed negative is definitely not carrying it.
|
|
|
08-12-2021, 09:57 AM
|
#307
|
Our Jessica Fletcher
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by woolymammoth
Holy $!@% people. There is a covid sub forum for a reason.
An OP about Winnipeg jets Policy turns into another covid posting fest. Move along!! not everyone wants to come on a hockey forum to read about covid.
|
The Jets policy is with regard to covid. What else could the discussion be about? Serious question.
|
|
|
08-12-2021, 09:59 AM
|
#308
|
Lifetime In Suspension
|
Lol freedoms and rights. To attend a hockey game. Rleaeglblargl it’s muh right to go watch hockey! Get the vaccine and go then. Weirdos.
|
|
|
The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to ResAlien For This Useful Post:
|
|
08-12-2021, 10:00 AM
|
#309
|
In the Sin Bin
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Alberta
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Random
I repeat, freedom of movement is a basic human right. We are talking about the government passing laws requiring people to carry a vaccination passport in order to enter private places.
All private businesses are requesting this? I happen to know that's not true. But the government will be applying the law to all private businesses and all citizens, whether they like it or not.
If you are forbidden to enter any place of business or any public building without a vaccine passport, your freedom of movement is gone. All it takes is for the government to revoke your passport, or refuse to issue you one, and you are under effective house arrest.
If there is nowhere that you are allowed to associate, then you do not have freedom of association.
Tens of millions of Soviet citizens were forbidden to travel at all for decades, because you were not permitted to travel without an internal passport and the officials responsible refused to issue such passports to whole classes of people.
Any state agency is capable of oppressing people if the laws are written to allow it – or if the officials of that agency are allowed to break the law without punishment. Both these things are depressingly common in human history, and you do not have to look far to find examples even today.
|
1. Private places can generally refuse service to anyone for a large array of reasons. In the past, vaccination status has already been used in this sense. The law is actually in the reverse sense: there are limited number of reasons that you can't be refused entry for. Vaccination status isn't among them. Governments also routinely set rules for private establishments on who can enter. It's why 17 year olds aren't allowed in bars.
2. No one is proposing that unvaccinated people would not be allowed to freely associate with each other on their own private property. It's just endangering other people with their lack of vaccination that people have a problem with.
3. your comparison of vaccine passports to soviet travel restrictions and chinese social credit programs is... hilarious.
|
|
|
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Monahammer For This Useful Post:
|
|
08-12-2021, 10:01 AM
|
#310
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by woolymammoth
Holy $!@% people. There is a covid sub forum for a reason.
An OP about Winnipeg jets Policy turns into another covid posting fest. Move along!! not everyone wants to come on a hockey forum to read about covid.
|
Why? Outing a few pro-diseasers in this thread because they are too scared to post in the covid forums is always good.. lol
__________________
Peter12 "I'm no Trump fan but he is smarter than most if not everyone in this thread. ”
|
|
|
08-12-2021, 10:03 AM
|
#311
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin
They should make it either a vaccine OR a negative test. There is a group of people who have conditions that don't allow them to safely get vaccines and they should not be discriminated against. If every attendee has a vaccine or a negative test, they should all be safe and no one would be discriminated against.
|
That’s probably OK, but eventually anyone who can get it should get it. The issue with tests as a replacement is that there’s only a short window where the test says anything. The cruise ships that are requiring one or the other have multiple tests at multiple times that are required (at participant expense) and even then there are limitations on where they can go on the ship - versus vaccinated passengers who are free to go where they want, and don’t have to be constantly tested.
|
|
|
08-12-2021, 10:05 AM
|
#312
|
Self Imposed Retirement
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Calgary
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ResAlien
Lol freedoms and rights. To attend a hockey game. Rleaeglblargl it’s muh right to go watch hockey! Get the vaccine and go then. Weirdos.
|
But where does it end though, it's a bit of a start of the slippery slope scenario and it deserves a discussion as we're a democracy still which some people seem to want to move away from.
Are we headed for everyone showing their status to enter every building, business and venue? An approved number/barcode so to speak? That's more scary to me than putting up with someone that chooses not to get vaccinated.
|
|
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Macman For This Useful Post:
|
|
08-12-2021, 10:06 AM
|
#313
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackIsBack
Actually.... exactly the opposite. If you simply have immunity from the mRna vaccination for COVID you just have antigen immunity based on just one protein (the spike protein)... if you had COVID and are immune, your immunity is based on multiple proteins in/on the virus and you also have Killer T cell immunity which has a far wider range of immunity because a variant virus can be recognized by your immune system and dealt with immediately, where the vaccine immunity may not. The virus is adapting (like the Delta variant) by changing it's spike protein, and that's why the vaccine's are failing against it, even though the virus is 99.9% identical to the original strain, the difference, the spike protein. People that have had some sort of COVID influenza or SARS (2003) previously are finding out that they are also immune from COVID even though those viruses are only 80% or so identical to COVID19 - having Killer T cells recognize some of the proteins on a virus are good enough for your immune system to react to that strain and start the immune response immediately. If you only recognize the spike protein, the protein that varies the most from strain to strain I might add... that's not long lasting immunity. Science.
|
"COVID influenza"... LOL.
And the vaccines sure are doing a remarkable job of "failing". 96.1% of the COVID patients in the ICU in Ontario right now aren't fully vaccinated, even though over 90% of the population most likely to end up in the ICU is fully vaccinated.
But I'm sure those 96% of people (if they survive) will be happy that they have immunity to the N, M, and E proteins as well as the Spike protein, even though the M and E proteins aren't remotely immunogenic and N protein specific antibodies have shown to be insufficient to confer immunity.
|
|
|
08-12-2021, 10:06 AM
|
#314
|
Scoring Winger
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Medicine Hat
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin
The organization is discriminating against them by not allowing them to attend events. Also, for whatever freedoms and choice are worth these days, people who choose not to get a vaccine but test negative should have the right to attend. People with vaccines can still contract Covid, so if they're not tested they could technically be carrying it whereas the non-vaccinated person who is confirmed negative is definitely not carrying it.
|
I'll let you go back through the thread to find the links that refute and debunk this myth because we've been over this already.
Getting vaccinated greatly reduces the risk of catching and spreading. Sure there is still a chance but it is greatly reduced by just getting vaccinated.
|
|
|
08-12-2021, 10:06 AM
|
#315
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macman
But where does it end though, it's a bit of a start of the slippery slope scenario and it deserves a discussion as we're a democracy still which some people seem to want to move away from.
Are we headed for everyone showing their status to enter every building, business and venue? An approved number/barcode so to speak? That's more scary to me than putting up with someone that chooses not to get vaccinated.
|
This slope is about as slippery as when people thought allowing same-sex marriage would lead to people marrying their pets.
|
|
|
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to opendoor For This Useful Post:
|
|
08-12-2021, 10:07 AM
|
#316
|
Franchise Player
|
With the recent news of the disappointing efficacy of the Pfizer vaccine against the Delta variant over time the issue is probably academic.
We are all royally screwed.
|
|
|
08-12-2021, 10:08 AM
|
#317
|
Franchise Player
|
How often, across any topic, has the slippery slope argument been proven to be valid?
|
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to Jiri Hrdina For This Useful Post:
|
|
08-12-2021, 10:09 AM
|
#318
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
That’s a different question though. The Court found in earlier cases that it was not against individual rights to have a vaccine mandate. In the latter case they simply said states could choose not to have such mandates. That is a federalism question.
|
I don't believe that is accurate. Here is excerpt from the National Constitution Center.
"However, the broad powers held by states to control vaccine policy can also be used by state governments to block vaccine mandates, in certain situations, at lower government levels and in the private sector. As of August 2, at least 14 states had enacted Covid-19 related laws that barred employer vaccine mandates, school vaccine mandates, or vaccine passports."
|
|
|
08-12-2021, 10:10 AM
|
#319
|
First Line Centre
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Section 120
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by bzoo02
I'll let you go back through the thread to find the links that refute and debunk this myth because we've been over this already.
Getting vaccinated greatly reduces the risk of catching and spreading. Sure there is still a chance but it is greatly reduced by just getting vaccinated.
|
Double vaccinated patients are ending up in the hospital. It's going to continue to happen as the virus mutates. I'm not saying the vaccines don't work by any means. I'm just using it as an argument to say that a vaccinated person is not necessarily less of a risk to the crowd than a non-vaccinated person with a negative test. Therefore, those people should not be discriminated against, whether it's their choice not to get a vaccine or its a medical conditional as to why they can't get the vaccine.
|
|
|
08-12-2021, 10:11 AM
|
#320
|
Powerplay Quarterback
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina
How often, across any topic, has the slippery slope argument been proven to be valid?
|
I'd argue not often because argument under the slippery slope analogy is usually an extreme/highly unlikely outcome from the outset.
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:13 PM.
|
|