2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Why are we still so fixated on size with Johnny- mony? Hudler played well with them and he was a shrimp. That article last week, i thought pretty conclusively, showed that what Mony-Gaudreau needs most is a player who can carry the puck through the neutral zone and be a second option for zone entry with Gaudreau. That and a better puck moving RD.
So the question, IMO, should be if Gusev is a better puck carrier through the neutral zone than what we have and is good at zone entries? If so, we should pick him up.

Couldn't agree more. Evidently, the size of their line mate seems to be negatively correlated with their production. Huddler and Lindholm are probably the lightest guys they've played with. And those were Johnny's and Monny's best seasons.

I'm not saying smaller = better. With Sutter as coach, I doubt they'll use a smaller RW. But like you said, they need players who can move the puck and pass. No more players like Alex Chiasson, who always had the puck die on their stick.

[shutout]

Retooling the core so that you are changing out 4-5 players with younger and different players so that the team remains competitive is probably what will happen.
The team will not be interested in trading for picks and prospects as much as they are in getting good, young, fast players that are nearing their second contract.

I think that this summer the Flames will push hard to move out Gaudrea, Monahan, Bennett, and Giordano. Replace those with players that even if not as talented have a higher character base and a more consistent work ethic that the team will be fine.
The team is not losing because of lack of skill or depth, but because of lack of heart, character, and desire and it is ingrained in the core of the team. Time to change it out.

I think that Tkachuk might be moved as well if a center is available. At a future of $9M does somebody who is clearing pouting like a little child because of criticism in the room deserve to be part of the core and leadership of the team? Or is he part of the problem? He has to stop trying to score every goal with his stick between his legs. Just get back to driving the net with the stick down and causing havoc. Start doing that again and he can stay. Continue how he has been since the muzzin flip and he can go as part of the retooling.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Huh?

What has changed?

And it isnt "long term strategy"....in fact it is very much short term.

20 more games this year and then next.

The team has since proven that this core of players will not get it done. I'm sure you and I are in agreement with that. Now that the coach has changed, we can be certain of it.

However, that's not good news if Sutter wants to compete for the Stanley Cup the next three years as coach of the Flames. The results above dictate that the Flames need a fundamental shift in their long-term plans. That means trading out the core, losing for a few years, and drafting high calibre players.

That is what has changed. So when you realize you need a fundamental shift in your long-term strategy, you have to begin short-term. You don't just come to the realization that the next 4-6 years are going to look different and don't start shifting short-term.

If the Flames are going to try and re-tool, whether or not they trade out players like Monahan and Gaudreau, to try and make the playoffs now, that is a fundamental error. Your long-term plan should also dictate what you do in the short-term.

And if you are saying that the Flames promised Sutter they would try and win over the next 1-3 years - who cares? Sutter couldn't get this team into a playoff spot. It seemingly appears that no coach could. So why tread water and delay the inevitable if you aren't going to win anyway?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by transplant99

That is not happening. If it was Ward would still be coaching and it would have been a house cleaning this summer from management down through ahl players.

Sutter will not have any part of that and i would imagine it was deeply discussed before he signed to come on board.

I agree with this, but I suspect there will still be some blood letting this summer. I can't see this team going forward with what they have. I would think that every player is available, but it would be for immediate returns and not for futures. Sutter's style is a certain type of game with certain types of players, so the makeup of the team has to change. The only players I really see as part of the Sutter future are Lindholm, Tanev, Hanifin, and Markstrom. Everyone else is a poor fit and could be sent packing for the right return - that being speed and size.

I would not be shocked to see Gaudreau, Monahan, Mangiapane, Backlund (deal with Seattle), and Bennett with new uniforms come next season, and replaced by guys with Ritchie type size and gumption. I suspect the minors will take on a very different look starting next year as well. I can't see this team wasting any further time on Phillips, Pettersen, or Zavgorodny when they obviously don't play the type of game Sutter wants this team to play. The makeup of the system has to change and a purge of midgets has to happen. We'll know come the draft just how big a difference Sutter's presence is going to have on the personnel decisions. If the draft changes to selecting coke machines on skates over the small skilled forwards we've been picking, then the purge is sure to take place, and quickly. Sutter ain't likely going anywhere, but the players certainly are.

[Ashasx]

If the Flames return to drafting Keegan Kanzigs and Hunter Smith, I think I'm just done.

And why isn't Mangiapane a Sutter player?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by New Era

I agree with this, but I suspect there will still be some blood letting this summer. I can't see this team going forward with what they have. I would think that every player is available, but it would be for immediate returns and not for futures. Sutter's style is a certain type of game with certain types of players, so the makeup of the team has to change. The only players I really see as part of the Sutter future are Lindholm, Tanev, Hanifin, and Markstrom. Everyone else is a poor fit and could be sent packing for the right return - that being speed and size.

I would not be shocked to see Gaudreau, Monahan, Mangiapane, Backlund (deal with Seattle), and Bennett with new uniforms come next season, and replaced by guys with Ritchie type size and gumption. I suspect the minors will take on a very different look starting next year as well. I can't see this team wasting any further time on Phillips, Pettersen, or Zavgorodny when they obviously don't play the type of game Sutter wants this team to play. The makeup of the system has to change and a purge of midgets has to happen. We'll know come the draft just how big a difference Sutter's presence is going to have on the personnel decisions. If the draft changes to selecting coke machines on skates over the small skilled forwards we've been picking, then the purge is sure to take place, and quickly. Sutter ain't likely going anywhere, but the players certainly are.

Mangiapane isnt going anywhere IMO (too good value wise), one of Gaudreau or Monahan im guessing but not both, for sure Bennett, and agree about Backlund.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

If the Flames return to drafting Keegan Kanzigs and Hunter Smith, I think I'm just done.

And why isn't Mangiapane a Sutter player?

Too small.

Get with the times Ashasx, it’s the Sutter era again.

BIG = GOOD

[Bonded]

If they start drafting big players out of the WHL I may cheer for Seattle. What prospects do they have to show from Sutter's draft philosophy, Backlund and Brodie?

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Mangiapane isnt going anywhere IMO (too good value wise), one of Gaudreau or Monahan im guessing but not both, for sure Bennett, and agree about Backlund.

I can see Monahan going if Backlund stays around

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Not by much.

PHI played 17gp in 31 days (actually 30): 6-10-1 (1W in SO, 2 in OT)
Fewest GA was 2-1 win over NYR, who also scored 8 and 9 against them, and two 6GA games.
They had back to back 3-0 shutouts wins against BUF to end Feb.


Sharks Dec. 92 was 14 games: 1-13
6x>=7GA. Fewest GA was 2.
Last game of November they lost 10-3.

Sharks Oct. 91 14 games: 1-13
5x>=7 GA. Fewest was GA was 3(x2).


Whalers 15 games: 3-11-1
(4x 7 or more fewest GA was 2(x2). Tie was 6-6 and they won a game 8-7

Nordiques 15 games: 1-13-1
(4x 7 or more; fewest GA was 3(x2)).

Jets March '89 was 17 games. 4-11-2
(4x 7 or more. fewest GA was 2(x2). Two of the wins were against the Leafs 10-2 and 9-7 in that month)

[MikeMc]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Also people here are assuming that NHL GMs are actually good at asset management.

Which I would argue tends to be generally false.

CP posters are way better at asset management than the guys who are employed to be good at asset management.

Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

If the Flames return to drafting Keegan Kanzigs and Hunter Smith, I think I'm just done.

And why isn't Mangiapane a Sutter player?

Too small and can't stay on his skates. Good player, but not in Sutter's style.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by New Era

Too small and can't stay on his skates. Good player, but not in Sutter's style.

Sutter gives him a lot of minutes though.

I think Darryl likes his compete level and energy.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Why are we still so fixated on size with Johnny- mony? Hudler played well with them and he was a shrimp. That article last week, i thought pretty conclusively, showed that what Mony-Gaudreau needs most is a player who can carry the puck through the neutral zone and be a second option for zone entry with Gaudreau. That and a better puck moving RD.
So the question, IMO, should be if Gusev is a better puck carrier through the neutral zone than what we have and is good at zone entries? If so, we should pick him up.

Hudler was built like a little tank (5'9", but 190 lbs). Gusev has the physique of a 15 year old and strikes me more as an older Yamamoto than Gaudreau. If you are going to be small and light, you better have some pretty special talent, especially at $4.5 M cap hit. We already have Gaudreau occupying that niche. Having one guy like that in your top 6 works, but two guys like that in your top 6 (even assuming Gusev has comparable talent) likely has diminishing returns.

Size isn't everything, but you still need it and the Flames lack it. I would hold out for something that fit the needs of the team more than Gusev.

And it's not like Sutter doesn't like small players (Cammalleri for example) or strictly skilled players (Huselius), but you have to consider the overall build of the team. Both those players filled a niche that needed to be filled.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Sutter gives him a lot of minutes though.

I think Darryl likes his compete level and energy.

What options does he have at this point? Still think he would be moved if they could bring in a bigger player who can win more puck battles than he loses. This is Sutter hockey. Owning the wall is the most important part of the game.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Much like the Flames, the Flyers have to do.....something.

Flyers management must be losing patience with their own core. I know most of us want the Flames to deal Gaudreau for futures if they move him, but if management/ownership are just trying to get back into the playoffs next season do you consider a hockey trade for Giroux or Voracek? The age of the players favours the Flyers, but IMHO they’re both better all-around players* than Gaudreau, and fit positional needs.

* I think half of a player’s value is in how effective they are without the puck, and offensive numbers aside Giroux and Voracek are much better without the puck.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

If the Flames return to drafting Keegan Kanzigs and Hunter Smith, I think I'm just done.

And why isn't Mangiapane a Sutter player?

Lol. Your not done. None of the regular posters are. We are all addicted to everything flames. Unless the owners let out some racist rant , I’ll be supporting flames till the day I die.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Flyers management must be losing patience with their own core. I know most of us want the Flames to deal Gaudreau for futures if they move him, but if management/ownership are just trying to get back into the playoffs next season do you consider a hockey trade for Giroux or Voracek? The age of the players favours the Flyers, but IMHO they’re both better all-around players* than Gaudreau, and fit positional needs.

* I think half of a player’s value is in how effective they are without the puck, and offensive numbers aside Giroux and Voracek are much better without the puck.

Absolutely no way to Voracek and Giroux has a NMC so won’t happen. I don’t think Voracek is even remotely better. Flyers fans rip him constantly for being lazy and soft and he makes 1.5M more on the cap than Johnny.

$8.25M and he has 5 goals this year in 32 games and still has plenty of term left and will be 32 at the start of next season.

[dissentowner]

Anyone who thinks the Flames are going full rebuild and dealing their high end players for picks and prospects are in for a reality check. This team will re-tool at best, there is no chance they will blow it up and rebuild.

[shutout]

Originally Posted by New Era

I agree with this, but I suspect there will still be some blood letting this summer. I can't see this team going forward with what they have. I would think that every player is available, but it would be for immediate returns and not for futures. Sutter's style is a certain type of game with certain types of players, so the makeup of the team has to change. The only players I really see as part of the Sutter future are Lindholm, Tanev, Hanifin, and Markstrom. Everyone else is a poor fit and could be sent packing for the right return - that being speed and size.

I would not be shocked to see Gaudreau, Monahan, Mangiapane, Backlund (deal with Seattle), and Bennett with new uniforms come next season, and replaced by guys with Ritchie type size and gumption. I suspect the minors will take on a very different look starting next year as well. I can't see this team wasting any further time on Phillips, Pettersen, or Zavgorodny when they obviously don't play the type of game Sutter wants this team to play. The makeup of the system has to change and a purge of midgets has to happen. We'll know come the draft just how big a difference Sutter's presence is going to have on the personnel decisions. If the draft changes to selecting coke machines on skates over the small skilled forwards we've been picking, then the purge is sure to take place, and quickly. Sutter ain't likely going anywhere, but the players certainly are.

This is the worst, laziest, and most stupid analysis I have ever heard.
You have absolutely no idea of what Sutter hockey is.
You are nothing but full of crap cliches and main stream media stupidity.

Size does not matter if you are playing a Sutter style.
He is looking for effort and compete. He wants players that are going to finish plays and work hard and hustle.
He is not asking players to put people through the boards, but to be on them and to finish checks, or better yet get your stick in the way and be disruptive on the forecheck.
Quick on the puck, pressure for turnovers, support in close proximity, overwhelm and outman situations and then move the puck quickly.

Sutters system would work to 100% perfection if you had a team of Mangiapane's that worked hard, played in the dirty areas, and pushed the play forechecking and backchecking. Just idiotic to think that he would want somebody like him gone because he is a huge hulking player.