[News] Flames have not had recent contract talks with Glencross

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The point being that GMs are in fact willing to give up assets at the deadline, contrary to what some people around here think.

So your point is that GMs want rental defensemen, again how is this relevant to Glencross?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

So your point is that GMs want rental defensemen, again how is this relevant to Glencross?

comprehension is an elusive little prey, isn't it?

[Bingo]

I'm not sure why anyone in this topic is stating worth as a fact when none of us have a clue.

He may garner a first he may not. Each year is different, and each player is different. Last year Snow and his attempt to salvage his Sabres trade to avoid losing his job mucked up a lot of things at the end; doubt that repeates.

If Berra proved anything ... wait and see.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Fire

I would offer 3 yrs for $5 million annual. Take it or leave it. If the Flames do re-sign Glencross they really need to move out Raymond to make room for Sven/Granlund.

Don't like it. Too much and too long. And then requires an emergency trade (probably retaining salary) or buyout to "make room" for unproven guys.

I don't like the Oiler comparisons in this thread, but one thing they do consistently is overvalue (and overpay) their assets, leading to disappointment when they back themselves into a corner and make a trade.

[Tinordi]

This isn't some unhinged opinion based on one year. The number of first round picks being swapped for rentals has declined as almost every GM had been forced to recognize the importance of the draft.

With that in mind how many injury prone 20 goal scorers with an NMC are traded for first rounders.

Sure, a GM may go crazy and offer a first. But that doesn't take away from looking at the evidence and concluding that it would be very unlikely.

Instead though we have one observation of a GM making a crazy trade in Berra and now we can just continually refer back to it like our wasn't a black swan.

[Weitz]

Also doesn't Glencross not want to be far from Alberta?

Surely other GM's know this which would further lower his value as it might be truly a rental trade.

Mind you no one really knows what Glencross wants.

[Bingo]

Well Regehr went for 2 2nd rounders 18 months ago
Pominville for a 1st and 3rd
Clowe for a 2nd, a 3rd and a conditional 2nd
Roy for a 2nd and a prospect
Bouwmeester of course for a package including a 1st

Year before

Oduya for a 2nd and a 3rd
Gaustad for a 1st
Kostitsyn for a 2nd and a 5th

Doesn't take a lot of research to find some deals that suggest Glencross could get a 1st

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

This isn't some unhinged opinion based on one year. The number of first round picks being swapped for rentals has declined as almost every GM had been forced to recognize the importance of the draft.

With that in mind how many injury prone 20 goal scorers with an NMC are traded for first rounders.

Sure, a GM may go crazy and offer a first. But that doesn't take away from looking at the evidence and concluding that it would be very unlikely.

Instead though we have one observation of a GM making a crazy trade in Berra and now we can just continually refer back to it like our wasn't a black swan.

I guess if you ignore the other observations, you only have one.

Markets ebb and flow. As Bingo said, no one can be sure what the market will be like this year until we see it. But don't let that stop you from making definitive statements like you are so fond of doing.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Doesn't take a lot of research to find some deals that suggest Glencross could get a 1st

Especially when he's viewed as being a hardworking player with intangibles that can play up and down your roster wherever needed.

I definitely see a world where Glencross could land a 1st, but it's also very dependent on what else is on the market. If we're looking at a world where Chris Stewart is reportedly being looked at by multiple teams, I can see there being a very solid demand for a guy like Glenny.

If there's a good offer we should definitely move him. Is he helping our team right now? Definitely. Is he critical to this season going down as a success or a failure? I wouldn't say so.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Glencross is not going to get a 1st round pick. Please disabuse yourself of that notion.

I like abusing myself of that notion.

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm not sure why anyone in this topic is stating worth as a fact when none of us have a clue.

He may garner a first he may not. Each year is different, and each player is different. Last year Snow and his attempt to salvage his Sabres trade to avoid losing his job mucked up a lot of things at the end; doubt that repeates.

If Berra proved anything ... wait and see.

Well put. Hell, once upon a time Paul Gaustad was deemed worth a 1st.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by locsofblu

I have not. I have to say though that last years deadline was just plain weird. I'm guessing Glencross would be a good fit in Philly if he indeed decided to waive his no trade.

The Flyers are 12 points out of a playoff spot. They will not be looking to acquire UFAs.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Locke

Hell, once upon a time Paul Gaustad was deemed worth a 1st.

The Gaustad trade isn't the barometer for what a 1st rounder is worth - it's the last example of extreme idiocy by a GM at the deadline. If people want to base their hopes off examples of extreme idiocy, go ahead. But don't try to tell the skeptics that we're being unreasonable when we laugh at such proposals.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The Gaustad trade isn't the barometer for what a 1st rounder is worth - it's the last example of extreme idiocy by a GM at the deadline. If people want to base their hopes off examples of extreme idiocy, go ahead. But don't try to tell the skeptics that we're being unreasonable when we laugh at such proposals.

Sure, but the evidence indicates that it could still happen.

You can laugh and scoff all you like, but it could still happen.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think the fact that the Flames are bidding for a PO spot way ahead of schedule has clouded some folks' memory of what they are trying to do. It's the second full year of the rebuild.

Yep. The NHL is littered with teams mired in mediocrity because they prematurely abandon rebuilds.

I've said it for years, but the franchise that should be the real bogeyman to Flames fans isn't the Oilers, it's the Leafs. We simply aren't an awful enough organization to become the Oilers. But we are wealthy enough - and judging by fans - impatient and delusional enough to cement our reputation as the Leafs west.

Overrating prospects? Check.
Pinning hopes on wildly imbalanced trades? Check.
Letting every sniff of success whip ourselves into playoff fever? Check.
Impatient with a true, long-term rebuild? Check.
Belief that if they get into the playoffs anything can happen? Check.

Now, I actually have confidence that Treliving understand the patience required for a rebuild (not so sure about Burke, though). He understands that it's not just a matter of out-drafting every other team in the NHL. It's about building up a stock of drafts picks and prospects to put as many bullets in the chamber. Letting UFAs walk in the hopes of maybe increasing your chances of sneaking into the playoffs is flat-out bad asset management for a team that's building for the future.

[heep223]

There will always be idiocy. It will not suddenly disappear because of a few bad trades in the past.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Don't like it. Too much and too long. And then requires an emergency trade (probably retaining salary) or buyout to "make room" for unproven guys.

I don't like the Oiler comparisons in this thread, but one thing they do consistently is overvalue (and overpay) their assets, leading to disappointment when they back themselves into a corner and make a trade.

Treliving appears to like the max 3 year deals when dealing with UFAs (which I agree with). I don't think there is a point in offering a 1 year or 2 year deal to Glencross, because there is zero chance he would take it. Is $5 million a lot for Glencross? Yes, but UFAs are always going to cost more than their RFA comparables. I wouldn't even bother offering him a contract except that he's one of the few top-9 players on this team that can play in the tough areas.

I think you're undervaluing Raymond's value in the trade market. For a guy that can get 15 goals and 40 points I don't think his contract is terrible and would require the Flames to eat salary.

[Vinny01]

The market for Glencross will be limited. Flames fans can only hope he provides a large enough list of teams he would accept a trade that they have a little negotiating power.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

The market for Glencross will be limited. Flames fans can only hope he provides a large enough list of teams he would accept a trade that they have a little negotiating power.

True, but I think a lot of teams would be interested in him, surely he'd waive for almost all of them if he's only going to play a few months with them. Teams I think would go after him would be teams like Pittsburgh, Anaheim, Montreal and the Islanders.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

This is a pretty sad organization. 3 series wins in 25 seasons, and 5 playoff appearances in the past 17. I would say making the playoffs should be sort of important. More important than moving one of your better forwards for the 88th pick in the draft.

I don't think we'd move him unless we're getting a 1st rounder or good prospect back.

[northcrunk]

I don't think we need to sign GlenX for a 4 year deal because we 'owe him a solid' as one poster put it. I think we do need to deal with the situation before the deadline. I'm not sure how much of a 'glue' guy GlenX is and he has actually come accross to me as the opposite. He is declining and all it is going to take is Sven or Wolf to come in a light it up for him and Raymond to be expendable.

To me GlenX has gotten away from what made him successful. Speed and a mean streak. Watching him this year he seems to have a bit of the 'I'm a skill guy now' to his game. He is not as physically engaged and doesn't seem to yap much out there. Almost like when Iggy was here. Some nights he was engaged and would have a scrap and play so much better than when he was trolling the perimeter looking for the one timer.

GlenX has definatly lost a step in speed and compete this year. I can't say if it's been the injuries hampering him or age. Either way I think we need to look at a package before the trade deadline as he is going to want more than he is worth for his next contract. Remember the last time we gave 'a solid' to one of players? And the next season he signed to the team we wanted to trade him to anyway? I'm past it. This is a business first.