How much longer do you think the Oilers will be this bad for?

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

This thread reminds me of the theists-versus-atheists threads.

We're right! No, we are! God exists and you're dumb. No he doesn't and you're an idiot.

No one ever convinces the other side of anything.

Fun to read, but that's about all.

My dad can beat up your dad! No he can't; my dad would kill your dad.

You say the thread is fun to read but have you read it?

Most of it isn't Flames vs Oilers, it's about the Oilers and an interesting question of if/when they'll turn it around.

The Flames are now basement dwellers and it's interesting to hopefully learn from the mistakes of up north and hopefully not make new ones of our own.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

This thread reminds me of the theists-versus-atheists threads.

We're right! No, we are! God exists and you're dumb. No he doesn't and you're an idiot.

No one ever convinces the other side of anything.

Fun to read, but that's about all.

My dad can beat up your dad! No he can't; my dad would kill your dad.

What? Have you read the thread at all?

1. The Oilers are following a 'plan.'
2. That 'plan' has seemingly failed.
3. Many times over.
4. When will people begin to question the plan?
5. Was it even a good plan to begin with?

Thats it. There is no 'dads beating up on other dads' or whatever the hell that was all about.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Lentulus Batiatus

To even remotely suggest the Flames are or will be as bad as the Oilers have been, for as long as they have and continue to be, is just rediculous.

We are right now one of the worst teams in the league. Our best players are old, our prospect pool is not great, and we have no picks stockpiled. In fact we are missing our 2nd round pick for this years draft, and our management has said out loud that he is not going to be a seller at the trade line. Our management gets piled on widely by commentators, and there is widespread talk of incompetent owners constantly meddling and micromanaging things.

Sure, it will take some doing to reach the lows the Oilers have gone through, but from where I'm standing, everything seems to be in place to make exactly that happen. Some of the old timers on this board have actually already said that they preferred the Young Guns years over what we have now.

[AlbertaOiler72]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

I bet with Seguin on the team the Oilers wouldn't be 30th and 29th.

And Seguin isn't a dirty piece of crap like Hall is.

why? cause a rookie "center" comes in a dominates the defensive side of the game for the 1st time in history?

btw, since Hall has come into the league, the Oilers have gone from 284 to 269 to 262 GA

the Bruins went from 200 to 195 to 202...Seguin seems to be making a huge difference

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by pinnochio5

lol this threads such a joke now considering the standings.

The team I love is worst in the league, and I don't even care. Go Flames Go!

Conference, sir. Worst team in the conference. Remarkably, there's five other teams out east that are more inept than we are.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

It's a reality. One that the Flames have experience with.

Hagman racks up points for a terrible Leafs team - garbage.
Stajan.
Bouwmeester.
Jokinen.
Comeau.

Players who put up points on crap teams aren't as good as their numbers on normal teams.

Those guys all went from one bad team to another bad team. Pretty poor examples.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Locke

You should know the difference between a player playing on the Oilers and a player playing on the Bruins.

The Bruins demand defensive accountability because they want to win games, the Oilers dont.

Oh Please. This isn't fantasy island. Every team good or bad demands defensive accountability.

Just look to the legions of fans of bad teams whining because Baertschi or Yakupov is playing on the third line.

Taylor Hall would put up numbers and get ice time wherever he goes because he's one of the strongest puck pursuit players in the entire NHL.

[stang]

Originally Posted by bertuzzied

hey what da ya know. The oilers win 2 games in a row and stang comes back to posting more than one post a week! Hahahahhaa.

It will take a something special team to match the oiler's suckiness from the past 3 years. It may never happen again in a salary cap world!

mod edit:

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by Locke

What? Have you read the thread at all?

....

Yeah, I've read it. The point stands. And it's not just this thread I'm referring to.

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by AlbertaOiler72

why? cause a rookie "center" comes in a dominates the defensive side of the game for the 1st time in history?

btw, since Hall has come into the league, the Oilers have gone from 284 to 269 to 262 GA

the Bruins went from 200 to 195 to 202...Seguin seems to be making a huge difference

Taylor Hall career -14
Tyler Seguin career +50

if there's a redraft today and anyone but Lowe/Tambelleni take Hall over Seguin I would be shocked

both could turn out to be great players but in Seguin you have a number 1 center who is responsible in his own end, in Hall you have a very talented winger who may or may not be able to become a power forward because he's too injury prone (so far)

[AlbertaOiler72]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

Taylor Hall career -14
Tyler Seguin career +50

if there's a redraft today and anyone but Lowe/Tambelleni take Hall over Seguin I would be shocked

both could turn out to be great players but in Seguin you have a number 1 center who is responsible in his own end, in Hall you have a very talented winger who may or may not be able to become a power forward because he's too injury prone (so far)

what is RNH than?

btw, Seguin isn't playing center, playing he's RW on Bergeron's line

I laugh when people say Seguin's better...really? where's the stats to prove it?

I still take Hall all day everyday...he's proven to be a legit top line LWer in the league (PPG pace this year on a terrible offensive team)

Seguin has yet to match Hall's PPG stats and it looks like Hall is gonna outscore Seguin in 2 of the 3 years both have been in the league (would've been all 3 save for injury)

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by AlbertaOiler72

what is RNH than?

btw, Seguin isn't playing center, playing he's RW on Bergeron's line

I laugh when people say Seguin's better...really? where's the stats to prove it?

I still take Hall all day everyday...he's proven to be a legit top line LWer in the league (PPG pace this year on a terrible offensive team)

Seguin has yet to match Hall's PPG stats and it looks like Hall is gonna outscore Seguin in 2 of the 3 years both have been in the league (would've been all 3 save for injury)

Only because Hall gets more minutes due to the fact the Oilers have had no one else to play. Seguin will be better for years to come.

[TKB]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

Taylor Hall career -14
Tyler Seguin career +50

if there's a redraft today and anyone but Lowe/Tambelleni take Hall over Seguin I would be shocked

both could turn out to be great players but in Seguin you have a number 1 center who is responsible in his own end, in Hall you have a very talented winger who may or may not be able to become a power forward because he's too injury prone (so far)

You honestly think Seguin would have even remotely close to that high of a plus minus if he was playing with the oilers? What a freaking joke! and what has already been mentioned, Seguin doesn't even play center!

[d_phaneuf]

No I don't, I was pointing out out because the goals against of each team while the players were on it was trying to show Hall having a better defensively influence on his team, while he is still a minus player

Seguin is playing top 6 minutes on a contender, he's not the first young player who has done that on the wing.

You guys keep pointing out Halls PPG stats, again because he is on a team that has been a bottom feeder so he plays in all offensive situations, whereas Seguin is on a contender with other talented players.

Also what does RNH have to do with Hall other than the fact that if they had taken Seguin they could have also taken Landeskog the next year and been in a much better position than they are now....?

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by TKB

You honestly think Seguin would have even remotely close to that high of a plus minus if he was playing with the oilers? !

True, but at the same time, I've seen Oiler fans in this thread point to Hall being better than Seguin based on having better career points. Obviously this is skewed as well, seeing as Hall plays first line minutes and has been forced into a go-to roll on a bad team, whereas Seguin can play more of a depth role on a contender.

Those "ya, but.." stats between the two goes both ways.

[TKB]

Originally Posted by Sainters7

True, but at the same time, I've seen Oiler fans in this thread point to Hall being better than Seguin based on having better career points. Obviously this is skewed as well, seeing as Hall plays first line minutes and has been forced into a go-to roll on a bad team, whereas Seguin can play more of a depth role on a contender.

Those "ya, but.." stats between the two goes both ways.

Like I've said before in this thread, both players are very good and I suspect will put up similar numbers throughout there careers. The oilers couldn't go wrong with whoever they picked, especially since Seguin doesn't even play center.

[AlbertaOiler72]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

No I don't, I was pointing out out because the goals against of each team while the players were on it was trying to show Hall having a better defensively influence on his team, while he is still a minus player

Seguin is playing top 6 minutes on a contender, he's not the first young player who has done that on the wing.

You guys keep pointing out Halls PPG stats, again because he is on a team that has been a bottom feeder so he plays in all offensive situations, whereas Seguin is on a contender with other talented players.

Also what does RNH have to do with Hall other than the fact that if they had taken Seguin they could have also taken Landeskog the next year and been in a much better position than they are now....?

so your saying Seguin and Landeskog are better than Hall/RNH?

-Seguin hasn't proven he can play center on a regular basis nor up the line-up (if Seguin was better offensively, he'd be playing more than the struggling Lucic or offensive studs Bergeron and Krejci)
-Lando has proven nothing as a leader (COL still stinks healthy) can't get on Hall's level offensively yet (way behind Hall's 2nd year pace) and now has a concussion on his resume (huge injury risk...much like Hall)

[Vinny01]

Oilers would be by far better off with Seguin-Eberle on one line and RNH-Yakupov on another. If you have a toss up between a centre and a winger and you are building a team from scratch you take the centre every single time

[malcolmk14]

The hall vs seguin debate is a lot like the ovechkin vs Crosby debate. It seems close now but if you actually watch the games you can see that seguin is developing into the more complete player and will leave hall in the dust sooner or later.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

What is funny is that the Oilers were touted as being a great offensive team. They've drafted forwards in the first round for the last 6 years with Yakupov (1st overall), RNH (1st overall), Hall (1st overall), MPS (10th overall), Eberle (22nd overall) and Gagner (6th overall.) Combine that with the brilliant Hemsky, the grizzled veteran Smyth, the steal of a deal in Horcoff and you should have an elite offense right? At least that's what the media was selling us.

Back in reality the Oilers have the 2nd lowest goals for in the Western Conference with 72, 1 ahead of the last place Sharks. League wide they are the 3rd lowest scoring team only 1 goal ahead of the Rangers and Sharks.

Pretty interesting