2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

If they are signing Hanifin, they are hoping he is still growing

Because right now he is very bland, not great, not bad. He is just there filling space

That's silly even for you.

He's a minute munching 2/3 defenseman that plays on both the PK and the PP.

Last three years he's ...
65th in ice time five on five
43rd in all situations
24th in xGF%
16th in xGF60
72nd in xGA60

He's a clear cut 2/3 defenseman.

Saying he is just there filling space is one of the worst takes I've ever seen; and that says something!

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I agree with the bold. I also agree that GMs are probably testing him - and as long as he holds his ground, that should self-correct.

I don’t buy that GMs are testing Conroy. Trades aren’t done by lone GMs talking on the phone and chomping cigars anymore. They’re done collectively by 6-8 people on each side (GMs, AGMs, scouts, analytics guy, capologists) who make projections, crunch numbers, and work out metrics. I think it’s a much more clinical process than it was in the past. I really doubt mind-games and testing news guys factors into it.

Fact is, Hanifin is going to be worth much less to a team that doesn’t feel they can extend him. And these days, players and their agents aren’t shy about leaking that information, even if it hurts their current team’s bargaining power.

[Savvy27]

The player that I would be looking to extend is Tanev.

Lindholm and Hanifin are both good players (even if Lindholm is having a pretty miserable season) and they both seem to carry enough value around the league that 1st round picks + is the expected return, could be huge for drafting potential stars or in trades for young established guys that aren't fitting into some teams cap structure.

Tanev is different in my mind though. He's important for development. If Kylington comes back then that is a top 4 pairing right there or if Poirier is on the team next season, Tanev is probably the ideal partner for him to develop with the first couple of seasons as a pro.

Amassing prospects is important, but it is only one part of building a good team. I don't see the Flames wanting to sink into the gutter for multiple seasons to land a star in the draft. This season is probably going to be the one where they accept it and then they will reload to compete next year, so a guy like Tanev is still going to matter in the next 2-3 seasons.

Winnipeg and Nashville both looked like teams destined for a rebuild last season, but with some tweaks to the roster were able to compete at a higher level. I'd be willing to bet that is the blueprint the Flames are looking at.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

See, there’s the problem. A lot of us can see this management team walking any or all of our soon to be UFAs to free agency and getting nothing in return. Conroy cut his teeth under Treliving who did just that to begin the slow implosion of a team with promise. I would hope Conroy would learn something but until he proves otherwise you have to be concerned about this potential. What we have seen is the Flames as an organization have been terrible at maintaining control over players and imposing deadlines and acting on those deadlines. Hanifin, Lindholm, and Tanev must be turned into assets that further reshape this team in a positive way. Treliving left a steam bag of #### behind and Conroy has to begin turning this around. He can’t screw this up but based on inaction and the continual changes in direction there are indicators this is a strong possibility. We all hope it doesn’t happen, but the possibility remains.

I think you'd have to be living under a rock to still think that's a viable option given all that's been said in the media since last summer.

[boogerz]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Maybe something to take with a grain of salt because it's not 100% a confirmed source but I heard this today (I'll let Dissentowner or Sec214 confirm or deny if they have better info)

Flames are in a bit of a weird spot with Hanifin.

There are teams are willing to pay close to the asking price for Hanifin but only if he will extend. The is issue is generally he only wants to extend in a couple places (Calgary, Boston, Florida, one other unknown place) and as of right now those teams aren't the teams with the best offer on the table.

Those teams are interested in the player but don't really want to step up to pay the price. Boston and Florida don't have their 2024 1sts, which the Flames don't love as they'd prefer the picks be sooner. And those teams also don't have deep prospect pools, and aren't willing to move top prospects they do have (Poitras, Lundell, Samoskevich).

Which has reopened the door to the Flames signing him since there is still interest from
both sides in him re-signing, or hoping a team would be willing to pay the premium without a contract being agreed upon at the time of the trade.

I can't forsee any situation where Hanifin ends up in Boston unless he takes a discount (<$7.5M AAV) for a sign and trade arrangement that includes the Flames retaining salary this year, or somehow makes it to UFA on July 1st (and signs for a hometown discount).

Assuming Boston has Hanifin @ $7.5M, re-signs Swayman at a similar amount to what he currently makes ($3.5-4.0M AAV), releases all pending UFAs, and maintains their current center depth (Zacha, Coyle, Poitras, and Beecher), they only have ~$10M to sign:

1 top6 winger
3-4 bottom six forwards (including the 13th forward)
2-3 bottom pairing defensemen (including the 7th dman)

If they promote their "NHL-ready" prospects into the open positions (Farinacci, Lysell, Merkulov, and Mast) and find league-minimum journeymen to fill out the remaining depth spots, they only have ~$5M to find a top6 winger...leaving almost no cap space for performance bonuses of the seven ELCs on the active roster and absolutely zero prospect depth at forward or defense in the event of injuries

[CsInMyBlood]

We've seen time and time again when the pressure is on in the playoffs Hanifin does not respond well. I wanted him traded for a nice haul after the Flames had their monster season with Johnny and the gang. To his credit he has kept his trade/contract value up this season.

I do not want him or Lindholm signed at all. I'd actually rather lose both of them for nothing than saddle the team w the 8 year contracts they believe they deserve.

We know what this team is right now, we need all the assets we can get going forward. Hanifin and or Lindholm cannot save us. It would be feasible IF Weegar, Kadri and Huberdeau weren't signed long term but this is the reality.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

We've seen time and time again when the pressure is on in the playoffs Hanifin does not respond well.

This is my issue with him too. Maybe it's because he's still fairly young but he's made repeatedly boneheaded mistakes in the playoffs. And if he's making 7.5 million I think it's going to be tough to stomach those mistakes.

[Shazam]

Can the team reach the cap floor if they eject everybody?

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

I think Hanifin has improved his play significantly. I used to think hockey IQ was his issue but additional maturity has made him solid imo. Compare him to Lindholm... Hanifin has been much more consistent in his play over the last 3 years.

Extending him isn't a bad option because he's in the prime age range, and from all accounts he genuinely enjoys being in Calgary. There is value to that.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think you'd have to be living under a rock to still think that's a viable option given all that's been said in the media since last summer.

I think you’d have to be hit in the head with that rock to not acknowledge the mixed messages in the media and then work from historical trends. We’re trading Hanifin… no, we’re signing Hanifin… no, we’re pulling the offer off the table and trading Hanifin… no, we’re resigning Hanifin… no, we have no idea what we’re doing because we’re only two points out of the playoffs! This is an organization that will do anything to make the playoffs and earn some of that playoff cheddar. They’ve been this way for decades so it’s not like we’re going off script here. Until they break the trend doing the same things over and over again, that remains their expected behavior. They can say all the crap they want in the media but until they step up and do something different they are just blowing smoke.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Listening to Conroy's interview with Pat yesterday, there is a clear change in tone when he talks about the on-ice product.

I realize people just want to define him based on 180 days ago or whatever, but that's a mistake imo. Changing your mind and not being a slave to your anchor bias is what you want in a front office.

[CFO]

So far under Conroy

Bring up youth to NHL - check

Waiver pickup Greer - check

Trading zadorov - bottom pairing D to free up cap room and not extend and overpay - check

Traded Toffoli for someone younger, faster, better overall game and nearly same points as well. Plus a pick too. - check


Not extended anyone else yet - check


Guy has done well so far.

Next test is what he does with hanafin, Lindholm, tanev and goalies

[CFO]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

I think Hanifin has improved his play significantly. I used to think hockey IQ was his issue but additional maturity has made him solid imo. Compare him to Lindholm... Hanifin has been much more consistent in his play over the last 3 years.

Extending him isn't a bad option because he's in the prime age range, and from all accounts he genuinely enjoys being in Calgary. There is value to that.

I agree. Flames should never aim to be a bottom garbage team. They can rebuild by moving out another 3-4 pieces. Many teams have impact players in the 1st round or 2nd round.

[Toast_Man]

Originally Posted by CFO

So far under Conroy

Bring up youth to NHL - check

Waiver pickup Greer - check

Trading zadorov - bottom pairing D to free up cap room and not extend and overpay - check

Traded Toffoli for someone younger, faster, better overall game and nearly same points as well. Plus a pick too. - check


Not extended anyone else yet - check


Guy has done well so far.

Next test is what he does with hanafin, Lindholm, tanev and goalies

Conroy did resign Backlund to 4.5m x 2. I still think that was some tidy work.

[CliffFletcher]

I have a hard time seeing how anyone reading Duhatschek’s interview with Conroy posted today can still believe the franchise is interested in a rebuild.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I think you’d have to be hit in the head with that rock to not acknowledge the mixed messages in the media and then work from historical trends. We’re trading Hanifin… no, we’re signing Hanifin… no, we’re pulling the offer off the table and trading Hanifin… no, we’re resigning Hanifin… no, we have no idea what we’re doing because we’re only two points out of the playoffs! This is an organization that will do anything to make the playoffs and earn some of that playoff cheddar. They’ve been this way for decades so it’s not like we’re going off script here. Until they break the trend doing the same things over and over again, that remains their expected behavior. They can say all the crap they want in the media but until they step up and do something different they are just blowing smoke.

I think you'd have to be pretty naive to think everything said for public digestion is a hint of a team's strategy.

Conroy's history now extends back 8 months.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I think you’d have to be hit in the head with that rock to not acknowledge the mixed messages in the media and then work from historical trends. We’re trading Hanifin… no, we’re signing Hanifin… no, we’re pulling the offer off the table and trading Hanifin… no, we’re resigning Hanifin… no, we have no idea what we’re doing because we’re only two points out of the playoffs! This is an organization that will do anything to make the playoffs and earn some of that playoff cheddar. They’ve been this way for decades so it’s not like we’re going off script here. Until they break the trend doing the same things over and over again, that remains their expected behavior. They can say all the crap they want in the media but until they step up and do something different they are just blowing smoke.

Then why worry about it until they do something (agree with your point). Being negative, or positive about anything right now makes no sense. Judge them (Conroy) on actions. Analyzing what's being said, not said, changed statements is 100% smoke, bad or good. As fans we never know what the intent is behind any message put out to public, what factors they might be mitigating against, what they are trying to accomplish, how much or little of their hand they are showing when they make statements.

This is not a critique of Conroy, but he's has yet to lift any of his big rocks since getting the job. I guess, that's not true, he's hired his coach, but outside of that, it's been fairly minor moves, which so far don't look bad. But for anyone to be upset, or happy with direction of this team until we see what he does (or doesn't do) with big expiring pieces (Lindholm, Hanifin and Tanev) is crazy. It's one thing not to be optimistic about what you think will happen, but basically saying I hold the right to miserable until proven otherwise seems crazy. Trade deadline is coming up, I know it's hard as a fan to be in a waiting pattern, but that's where we are. Conroy hasn't done anything of substance yet, so why get upset about it until he does?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by CFO

So far under Conroy

Bring up youth to NHL - check

Waiver pickup Greer - check

Trading zadorov - bottom pairing D to free up cap room and not extend and overpay - check

Traded Toffoli for someone younger, faster, better overall game and nearly same points as well. Plus a pick too. - check


Not extended anyone else yet - check


Guy has done well so far.

Next test is what he does with hanafin, Lindholm, tanev and goalies

Exactly.

He's moved 2/5 free agents so far.
Hasn't extended anyone.
Has talked about youth and served it.
Was quoted talking about retention slots.

To believe they are rudderless or pivoting to keep the team intact is missing a lot of actual information, and falling helplessly for the platitudes given in interviews.

[mile]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1745116409842258377

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I have a hard time seeing how anyone reading Duhatschek’s interview with Conroy posted today can still believe the franchise is interested in a tankbuild.

Fixed your post