US and Canada (Great Allies?) - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

narbeZ · 08-02-2010, 12:20 PM

We all know that we share the same border, and are the worlds biggest trading partners.

I met three people last night, that if they said they had to choose, they would go AGAINST the states and ally with the Russians, and possibly Chinese.

Now I know the whole premise of the conversation is bunk since we are all technically allies.

I just couldn't believe three people I thought I knew well, would side with NA's greatest enemy of the past 100 years over the USA.

There reasons were numerous, spanning from the Mad Cow crisis, to the American's first going into Iraq without UN approval, but still...THE Russians.

It was kind of a weird as they all were fans of Jean Chretien.

Really if we turned on the United States, how different would we be then the middle east, and africa?

Cactus Jack · 08-02-2010, 12:24 PM

It shouldn't surprise you that people that are anti-US like Chretien. He did a lot the US didn't like - gay marriage and mary-jane decriminalization if I'm not mistaken, heavy bank regulations and of course Iraq. It had a lot to do with the fact that Bush and Chretien had a bad relationship - maybe W. didn't like that Jean was a Quebecer and of course Jean Chretien was a little bit of prick too. Maybe it was Jean's accent, who knows.

As a Canuck, I'm not the biggest fan of the US in general but it would be hard to not side with them unless it was another obvious situation like Iraq or they invaded us or something.

HPLovecraft · 08-02-2010, 12:29 PM

If sh*t hit the fan, I would wager they'd abandon their Chinese allegiances and run to their ol' pals the US fairly quickly.

Table 5 · 08-02-2010, 12:34 PM

Honestly, I think it's just pure dumb naivete.

Ozy_Flame · 08-02-2010, 12:36 PM

I think the context is lost here. What was the context? Politics? Economics? War?

Economically, I can see why people would pick the Chinese. Not sure about the Russian vote, but perhaps they meant Europe more as a whole? The American economy is in the dumps right now - therefore, I don't blame people who pick China or rising industrial powers. China just overtook Japan as the world's second biggest economy.

GirlySports · 08-02-2010, 12:38 PM

What about sport? I know alot of people who would cheer for Russia in a Russia-US game.

Heck I know some people who were cheering for Russia over Canada! Until that first period shut them up

transplant99 · 08-02-2010, 12:41 PM

The US and Canada are as, if not more, intertwined than any 2 nations on this planet and as such are just as much allies as anyone.

The OP's friends are a bit head scratching at best...why would anyone side with Russians/Chinese over the one country that provided protection from those two and Canada being part of those empires? Have they forgotten the history of the last 75 years and what both Russia and China have done at times? Even if this is all based on Iraq....the US isnt occupying that country like China in Tibet or Russia in a host of breakaway nations. And that is just recent stuff...go back to what the Soviets perpetuated on Eastern europe in the last half of the 20th century. Short memories?

Yikes.

CaptainCrunch · 08-02-2010, 12:42 PM

Your friends are morons

Lets be allies with the Chinese, yes the American's have environmental issues, but nothing compared to China, and I can imagine us trying to change their ways. And lets be close allies with a country with China's human rights abuses.

And the Russians would be allies, they would dominate, thats what they do.

The American's have been fast and faithful friends to us, and they've always been a loyal and giving friend.

But then again your friends support Chretien who in my mind was a leaping moron.

Soooo

narbeZ · 08-02-2010, 12:50 PM

I'm not as educated as I should be on USA CANADA relations.

Their main rallying point seemed to be two statements the first in the form of a question:

When has the US ever had our Back?

The second being: The US has lost the last 4 wars they have been involved in.

All three of them were adamant that siding with countries 20 hours away would be better then siding with the US. They all said they hated the American's arrogance.

I must have tried to reason with them for 3-4 hours. To no avail. Quite a few times during the "debate" I just had to stop and ask... ARE YOU SERIOUS? Apparently very much so.

valo403 · 08-02-2010, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by narbeZ

I'm not as educated as I should be on USA CANADA relations.

Their main rallying point seemed to be two statements the first in the form of a question:

When has the US ever had our Back?

The second being: The US has lost the last 4 wars they have been involved in.

All three of them were adamant that siding with countries 20 hours away would be better then siding with the US. They all said they hated the American's arrogance.

I must have tried to reason with them for 3-4 hours. To no avail. Quite a few times during the "debate" I just had to stop and ask... ARE YOU SERIOUS? Apparently very much so.

Well if anything you are now at ease knowing that you are without a doubt not the dumbest person in your group of friends.

Azure · 08-02-2010, 12:57 PM

When has the US ever had our back? Every day?

Canadians might 'hate' the US military because of Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam or some other adventure, but the fact is that the $500 billion dollar DoD budget is helping protect Canada each and every day.

In some ways we are blessed beyond our understanding.

The US has its share of problems -- rising debt, rising deficit, government that has become incompetent, health care, social security, unemployment, etc, etc -- but the fact is that they're still the strongest country in the world, both economically and militarily, and we are VERY lucky to be their neighbor.

I'd venture a guess that a lot of countries in the world are jealous of the relationship between the US/Canada.

Clever_Iggy · 08-02-2010, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by narbeZ

The second being: The US has lost the last 4 wars they have been involved in.

That's quite a losing streak. I wish they would just tear it down and start a rebuild. The Sutters have no idea what they're doi.... sorry, wrong thread.

Your friends sounds like Chretien supporters who are lining up to get hammer and sickle tattoos and making those statements to sound edgy, against the grain or just general blindly hate on the US. If they name something the US does that would cause them to think the US (a) is weak, (b) is "evil," (c) violates human rights, (d) are environment destroyers, and/or (e) are blindly patriotic and you should easily be able to provide a swift rebuttal that completely nullifies their hippy attitudes.

Or just punch them in the face.

jammies · 08-02-2010, 01:13 PM

I'm no big fan of the USA's foreign policy, but that's just asinine. Canada is in no danger of being invaded by anyone anytime soon because the US is our (mostly) friendly neighbour. If we bordered Russia or China, you can be sure we'd be an unwilling satellite of the bordering nation by now, if not worse.

Then again, did you meet this people last night, or do you know them well? I don't know if it can really be both.

Cain · 08-02-2010, 01:14 PM

Sounds like blind uninformed hate to me. Reminiscent of going through grades 1-12 where kids would just spout things out of their mouths without really knowing what they were saying.

Growing up in canada but being born in the states I have always been sensitive to this stuff. The states is far from perfect, but some canadians have such a stick up their ass about being different/better than our best ally to the south it is amazing. Seems odd to "hate" a people that are so akin to our own.

narbeZ · 08-02-2010, 01:20 PM

Edit

Jordan! · 08-02-2010, 01:22 PM

Being a dual citizen, I think it's hilarious that your friends think they are much different than Americans.

Living in either country is more or less the same, except the U.S. isn't trying to copy Canada in everything it does.. OH I WENT THERE

That or trying too hard to not be like America (3 down football)

narbeZ · 08-02-2010, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jammies

Then again, did you meet this people last night, or do you know them well? I don't know if it can really be both.

I knew one person of the three very well.

Delthefunky · 08-02-2010, 01:35 PM

Thank god we are as great allies as we are! I love the States. I used to hate them too when I was younger, but growing up a bit you begin to realize what kind of world we would be living in without them.

holden · 08-02-2010, 01:36 PM

Whats the wait? If its so much better in their countries of choice why don't they go there and get a head start.

As arrogant or corrupt as things may appear, and quite often are in the U.S. it is nothing compared to that in China or Russia. Both have archaic levels of respect for human rights and the environment, and are rife with corruption.

Get smarter friends.

Rerun · 08-02-2010, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Your friends are morons