Curling Strategy

[Jaybo]

I'm not a huge curling fan and I was also watching the women's gold medal game with the sound low as I visited with family so wasn't able to give the commentary my full attention.

So can somebody please explain some of the strategic decisions that the Canadians made in the last couple ends including the extra one? I'm thinking particularly of the decision to take out the Swedish guard in the extra end leaving a double take-out shot for the game. Why not just throw another guard and clog up the ice to put the pressure on Sweden to make a tough shot instead of leaving the big shot for yourself?

Again, I hope I'm even remembering the sequence right but any thoughts about the entire game and how it developed, especially at the end, would be appreciated.

[Daradon]

I think a high level athlete would always prefer to have to make a tough shot instead of allowing the other team to win because of one. Better to have your destiny in your own hands.

Now of course, there are levels of ''hard''. If you are making the shot nearly impossible on the other team, then maybe that's a thought. But I guess they felt the Swedes would have at least a small chance of making the shot with an extra guard up.

Going in, they just needed to keep the ice clear, which the second and third did not do, missing the double take out many times and even leaving one of their own rocks in. That's where the biggest mistake was made in the 11th end.

However, the biggest mistake was made with the last shot in the 10th. There were two ways Bernard could have made sure it ended better. One, not throwing the rock so hard, so that if it did jam the Swedish rock, hers would not roll right through and would count anyway.

The other way would have just to been more accurate, and make the take out without the jam. Regardless, if she throws it a little softer, this might not have mattered anyway.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Daradon

I think a high level athlete would always prefer to have to make a tough shot instead of allowing the other team to win because of one. Better to have your destiny in your own hands.

Now of course, there are levels of ''hard''. If you are making the shot nearly impossible on the other team, then maybe that's a thought. But I guess they felt the Swedes would have at least a small chance of making the shot with an extra guard up.

Going in, they just needed to keep the ice clear, which the second and third did not do, missing the double take out many times and even leaving one of their own rocks in. That's where the biggest mistake was made in the 11th end.

However, the biggest mistake was made with the last shot in the 10th. There were two ways Bernard could have made sure it ended better. One, not throwing the rock so hard, so that if it did jam the Swedish rock, hers would not roll right through and would count anyway.

The other way would have just to been more accurate, and make the take out without the jam. Regardless, if she throws it a little softer, this might not have mattered anyway.

Yes, that red guard blocked the entire left side making Bernard have to go for the double instead of drawing around the out-turn side.

[SteveToms]

Bernard screwed herself two games in a row in the 10th end, this time it bit her in the ass. You want to play with very little rocks at all when you are up by 2 or more in the 10th. She didn't do that

[Kerplunk]

If I remember the set up correctly, Sweden had the two guards up front, and the rock sucked up to the shot stone of Canada. If Canada didn't remove the front guard, or put another one up, Sweden could have tried the run back onto their stone in the house...essentially what they did on their last rock, but they would have had a ton of guards up front to stop Canada from coming in. Canada wanted to prevent this and keep the center line open for an easier shot.

Of course if should have ended in the 10th, with a better take out or a bump back (which is what I thought they were going to do anyway). Just push the Sweden rock back a foot, and then you are lying 2 with split rocks in the house. Hell of a lot better than whiffing on the thing.

[Kerplunk]

Oh ya, and the second shot from the lead in the 11th didn't help either. If she made that draw, they would have had two in the house with them set up to make a bump or freeze on the back one difficult. Instead she racked off the guard, allowing the freeze to take place. Just shows you how important the first few shots are.

[socktape]

I was watching that last end with my dad and we had both said the same thing as Jaybo had said... stick a stone in between the yellow guard and the yellow frozen to the red shot stone.

I can see it from her side to though.... clear it away and go for the double. It wasn't a bad decision really as the swede could have easily over or under thrown that freeze and knocked herself out, which she kind of did. That shot wasn't that overly hard, she just had to hit it on the nose and both stones would have been gone. She just threw it inside. Notice how they were sweeping like hell after she let go? Bet you she makes that shot 95% of the time.

[Kaesar]

Which is why the lost was so frustrating.

Both shots in the 10th and 11th end were shots elite curlers make 9 times out of 10. Bernard will be thinking of those shots for a very very long time.

[redforever]

When she threw her last rock, the yelling for hard sweep came immediately and you could tell right away they were in silver country, not gold. It was all over.

I kind of think she choked under the pressure, as someone else said, successful skips make 95% of their shots.

[Kidder]

When she delivered the final rock of the 10th end you could see Bernard yell "Clean!" and a smile crept across her face. At that precise moment she thought she had won gold.

What's really painful is the actual rarity of jamming a rock like that. If they had swept the rock halfway they would have picked Sweden's rock on the inside and missed the jam. But waiting for it to curl like they did allowed the perfect angle onto the back rock.

Less weight, more weight, no sweeping, hard sweeping... if any one of these had taken place she'd have her gold.

And she's not even the best curler in Alberta. She'll never get a chance for redemption.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by socktape

I was watching that last end with my dad and we had both said the same thing as Jaybo had said... stick a stone in between the yellow guard and the yellow frozen to the red shot stone.

The problem was that there were two yellow guards out in front. If she went to block one of them, the other one became a pretty easy raise for Sweden to lie as shot. Assuming the Swede didn't screw up, the shooter sticks around and there would still be two guards out in front, which would have made Canada's shot even more difficult. She had the best situation she could have hoped for going into her last rock in the 11th, she just missed the shot.

[Cowperson]

If you have the hammer in the 11th end, why not just remove every Swedish stone as they're thrown, regardless of where they are on the ice, rolling your own out of the way in the process - basically keeping the ice clear - and then draw to the button with your last rock to win?

Why allow clutter, which can only advantage the Swedes, to build up at all?

Cowperson

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

If you have the hammer in the 11th end, why not just remove every Swedish stone as they're thrown, regardless of where they are on the ice, rolling your own out of the way in the process - basically keeping the ice clear - and then draw to the button with your last rock to win?

Why allow clutter, which can only advantage the Swedes, to build up at all?

Cowperson

the first four rocks of an end, that are thrown in the free-guard zone cannot be removed

[zarrell]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

If you have the hammer in the 11th end, why not just remove every Swedish stone as they're thrown, regardless of where they are on the ice, rolling your own out of the way in the process - basically keeping the ice clear - and then draw to the button with your last rock to win?

Why allow clutter, which can only advantage the Swedes, to build up at all?

Cowperson

Because curling would be pretty boring if they allowed that. The first few guards that are put up are not allowed to be peeled off.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

If you have the hammer in the 11th end, why not just remove every Swedish stone as they're thrown, regardless of where they are on the ice, rolling your own out of the way in the process - basically keeping the ice clear - and then draw to the button with your last rock to win?

Why allow clutter, which can only advantage the Swedes, to build up at all?

Cowperson

I believe they use the free-guard rule, it's been a while since I watched curling intensely (I only casually caught what was going on during the Olympics) but for the first four stones (2 per side I think) unless the rock is in the house you can't take it out.

Having a guard complicates things, as if you tuck behind it, you can't easily peel it out.

[Svartsengi]

I think you can remove any rocks that slide in the house in the first 4 rocks and can slide you own out of play if you want. I remember teams trying to tap opposition rocks around without removing them from the guard zone. I don't know if rules have changed.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

If you have the hammer in the 11th end, why not just remove every Swedish stone as they're thrown, regardless of where they are on the ice, rolling your own out of the way in the process - basically keeping the ice clear - and then draw to the button with your last rock to win?

Why allow clutter, which can only advantage the Swedes, to build up at all?

Cowperson

I actually had the same thought, even in the 10th end. If they clear every single rock, the swedes can only draw to the button with the hammer get one. However, several people already mentioned why you can't do that.

Still, I feel that the shot in the 10th end was one even I could've made. It was a straight take out with numerous options to avoid the jam.

Just a pure choke.

[Smell My Finger]

Originally Posted by SteveToms

Bernard screwed herself two games in a row in the 10th end, this time it bit her in the ass. You want to play with very little rocks at all when you are up by 2 or more in the 10th. She didn't do that

exactly STEVETOMS is right. All she had to do was peel every Sweden stone off the playing surface after Canada had 3 in the house and Sweden had 1. Canada had 3 shots remaining. Sweden had to score 2 in the 10th end. Bernard was over confident that thought she could out curl the Swede skip. Also Canada's 2nd made too many errors in the final game.
Bernard blew the Gold in the 10th and extra end. It was on a platter. Earlier in the tournament she was faced with the same situation but the opposition shot was too heavy and Bernard won by luck.
All in all they have a Silver medal which is no small accomplishment.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Smell My Finger

exactly STEVETOMS is right. All she had to do was peel every Sweden stone off the playing surface after Canada had 3 in the house and Sweden had 1. Canada had 3 shots remaining. Sweden had to score 2 in the 10th end. Bernard was over confident that thought she could out curl the Swede skip. Also Canada's 2nd made too many errors in the final game.
Bernard blew the Gold in the 10th and extra end. It was on a platter. Earlier in the tournament she was faced with the same situation but the opposition shot was too heavy and Bernard won by luck.
All in all they have a Silver medal which is no small accomplishment.

They did peel everything in the 10th. But the 2nd last Swedish shot (hit and roll) was pretty good. Stone ended up about half buried behind the guard.

Cheryl just threw it too hard thinking she HAD to remove when really she just needed to move it a foot to force Sweden into a tough shot. Cheryl wanted to win it right there and was too hard.

That whole 11th end was a mess. Couldn't tick, couldn't peel, couldn't get anything right.
Bernard had an easier shot that anyone thought she would on her last. But was too inside

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Regorium

I actually had the same thought, even in the 10th end. If they clear every single rock, the swedes can only draw to the button with the hammer get one. However, several people already mentioned why you can't do that.

Still, I feel that the shot in the 10th end was one even I could've made. It was a straight take out with numerous options to avoid the jam.

Just a pure choke.

When I see comments like this I have to ask...do you curl? Would you have been in the same position?

I really think that when Canada hasn't won a gold in womens curling for the last few olympics that this is not really a choke. She says herself that she should've made the two shots for the win, but anyone who curls knows that this is how the game is sometimes. There are a lot of factors for every shot and you just can't control every one of them.