The big fat Greek bailout

[Flame Of Liberty]

BERLIN (AFP) – The European Union could provide debt-ridden Greece with up to 25 billion euros (34 billion dollars) in aid, Monday's edition of the German magazine Der Spiegel says, citing suggestions from Germany's finance ministry.

The amount each country would contribute would be calculated according to its relative position in the European Central Bank, Der Spiegel explains.

Germany would therefore contribute nearly 20 percent of the potential aid package, the equivalent of up to five billion euros, which would be made up in part of loans and guarantees.
...
Greece is committed to reducing a public deficit of 12.7 percent of gross domestic product by four percentage points over the course of 2010. Countries in the single euro currency zone are subject to a three percent limit.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100220...20100220221715

I wonder how long till the German taxpayer says enough is enough.

Cheat, cook the books, live on debt, pay ridiculous salaries in public sector and then come hat in hand. Too funny.



Meanwhile, Spain's prime minister is trying to cover his own behind:

Zapatero, whose government is also facing pressure in the markets to bring down its budget deficit, gave Papandreou support and said deficits across Europe would come down once the recovery from recession was firmly established.

"Of course we are going to reduce the deficits.....we are not going to fall in the trap of the ideas of those who have created the financial crisis," he said.

"The large majority (of Greeks) has no responsibility for what has happened, and much less Papandreou's government..it deserves the trust of European institutions, of the markets and he has the trust of all the European governments," Zapatero added.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100219/...nancial_crisis


Yup, Greek voters hold no responsibility for electing politicians who promised them a free meal. Makes sense.


And while you would think THEY came to their senses and realized the party is over... Au contraire:

Customs workers have extended their strike against salary freezes and bonus cuts through next Wednesday, when unions across Greece will hold a general strike that is set to bring the country to a standstill.

Funny little world we live in.

[Devils'Advocate]

What is really preposterous is that Greece plans on lowering the corporate tax rate by 1% every year until 2015. Given their financial crisis, I would think that they would be more prudent, eh FoL?

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

What is really preposterous is that Greece plans on lowering the corporate tax rate by 1% every year until 2015. Given their financial crisis, I would think that they would be more prudent, eh FoL?

Yeah, they should increase the rate instead and drive all the remaining businesses out of the country.

Then every Greek will be pulling 1000 EUR a week in a public sector job and the crisis will be a history.

[GreatWhiteEbola]

Nm

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty

Yeah, they should increase the rate instead and drive all the remaining businesses out of the country.

And go where?

Corporate tax rates:
France: 33.3%
Italy: 37.25%
Belgium: 34%
Spain: 30%
Germany: 16% federal, another 15% local
Portugal: 28%

Greece is already lower than most neighboring countries.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Cyprus is pretty much a tax heaven in the EU and especially for Greeks its perfect.

[HPLovecraft]

Those fat, rich Athenians. This is what they get for spending so much on building projects and public games. Instead of sitting around debating and womanizing they should be out in the fields and in the battle line with their brothers like their good Spartan neighbors. No amount of philosophizing on what makes a perfect ruler will save them once the Persians invade. It seems to ALWAYS be up to Sparta, and I, for one, am sick of it!

[Flame Of Liberty]

Indebted Greece still faces arms purchases
Debt-ridden Greece still under pressure to keep buying military equipment

Greece funnels billions of euros (dollars) into its military, spending more of its gross domestic product -- 2.8 percent in 2008 -- on it than any other European Union country, and second only in NATO to the United States. Turkey, by comparison according to the most recent NATO figures available, spent 1.8 percent of its GDP on military expenditure in 2008.

French European parliament member Daniel Cohn-Bendit was even blunter, accusing the leaders of France and Germany of obliging Greece to maintain arms sales negotiations with their countries before agreeing to financial aid.

"For the past three months, there were several billions in arms contracts that we forced Greece to confirm: French frigates ... helicopters, airplanes, German submarines. It's hypocrisy," Cohn-Bendit said at a news conference in Paris earlier this month.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Indebt...30960.html?x=0

[Flame Of Liberty]

Egemen Bagis, Turkey’s chief negotiator with the European Union, has criticized Germany, along with France, for seeking to sell military equipment to Greece while pressing the government in Athens to make drastic public spending cuts as a result of its dire financial crisis. The pointed critique of Berlin and Paris was made in an interview last week in Brussels.

Mr. Bagis did not identify any specific military projects, though the Greek Navy has had a longstanding order to buy four German submarines.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/30/wo...ht-turkey.html

"The Germans and the French have them over a barrel now," said Nick Witney, a former head of the European Defense Agency.

"If you are trying to repair Greek public finances, it's a ludicrous way to go about things."

France is pushing to sell six frigates, 15 helicopters and up to 40 top-of-the-range Rafale fighter aircraft.

Greek and French officials said President Nicolas Sarkozy was personally involved and had broached the matter when Papandreou visited France last month to seek support in the financial crisis.
The Greeks were so sensitive to Sarkozy's concerns that they announced on the day Papandreou went to Paris that they would go ahead with buying six Fremm frigates worth 2.5 billion euros ($3.38 billion), despite their budget woes.

The ships are made by the state-controlled shipyard DCNS, which is a quarter owned by defense electronics group Thales (TCFP.PA) and may have to lay workers off in the downturn.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62M1Q520100323

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by fotze

Greece should watch out, remember the last time Germany was forced to unfairly pay out billions. They tend to angry and killy.

That's funny, I don't care who you are!

[stampsx2]

Anybody know what the situation is like in Greece. I hear travel is not recommended. Some rioting and stuff.

[Devils'Advocate]

The riots have died down since the bailout. But the people protesting did have a point... the corrupt politicians that bankrupted the country should be brought to justice, along with the corrupt bankers. I'm not surprised by what happened here... just surpised it doesn't happen more often. The rich steal from populace and leave them bankrupt, and if history is any indication those that were stolen from will suffer and those that stole the money will live their lives in luxury.

Between Goldman Sachs working with the Greek government to hide their debt, or the bribes paid by industry to officials to grease their palms... as Sarbanes-Oxley says, "Business has played a big role in the crisis that threatens to destroy the Eurozone and European currency."

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

What is really preposterous is that Greece plans on lowering the corporate tax rate by 1% every year until 2015. Given their financial crisis, I would think that they would be more prudent, eh FoL?

They have no choice but to entice businesses to operate there.

Countries like Canada have more leeway with the corporate tax rate because we have a stable economy. Greece doesn't have that luxury which is why they gotta lower it.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

The riots have died down since the bailout. But the people protesting did have a point... the corrupt politicians that bankrupted the country should be brought to justice, along with the corrupt bankers. I'm not surprised by what happened here... just surpised it doesn't happen more often. The rich steal from populace and leave them bankrupt, and if history is any indication those that were stolen from will suffer and those that stole the money will live their lives in luxury.

Between Goldman Sachs working with the Greek government to hide their debt, or the bribes paid by industry to officials to grease their palms... as Sarbanes-Oxley says, "Business has played a big role in the crisis that threatens to destroy the Eurozone and European currency."

The whole system is messed up.

It wasn't properly regulated and you had corrupt government officials.

Both those things probably go hand in hand.

Cough*USA*cough.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

Anybody know what the situation is like in Greece. I hear travel is not recommended. Some rioting and stuff.

Islands should be fine, people living there know that without tourism they're done. However you never know... if public workers go on strike (airports etc) you'll get stuck for god knows how long.

Athens on the other hands...I'd stay away for now.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Between Goldman Sachs working with the Greek government to hide their debt, or the bribes paid by industry to officials to grease their palms... as Sarbanes-Oxley says, "Business has played a big role in the crisis that threatens to destroy the Eurozone and European currency."

Hmmmmm....where do I start

SOXFIRST.COM (your source) is neither a reputable website, nor related to the Sarbanes-Oxley act.

[Bill Bumface]

How long until countries like Germany say F it and bail on the EU? Is that even a possibility?

I mean, we're used to propping up Quebecers and Newfies, but we're used to it, and they are fellow Canadians. If we were having to bail out Mexico I'd be a little choked.

[Devils'Advocate]

Mehn. That Goldman-Sachs was working to hide their debt is a fact. That industries paid bribes to the government for big contracts is a fact. I just didn't want to take someone elses words as my own. Ducay is correct that the citation is wrong, but I stand by the words stated.

[stampsx2]

[QUOTE=hulkrogan;2523902]How long until countries like Germany say F it and bail on the EU? Is that even a possibility?

I think the plan is to work through it. Like a marriage. It would be pretty foolish to break up after their first hiccup when they might have something good going.

[amorak]

Originally Posted by ducay

hmmmmm....where do i start

a) sarbanes-oxley is two people who aren't dating
b) sarbanes-oxley insn't an organization
c) soxfirst.com (your source) is neither a reputable website, nor related to the sarbanes-oxley act.

fyp