St. Patrick's Bridge design entries

[Table 5]

So who wants to argue about bridges again? I know I do.

Global had a story on last night previewing some of the designs for the new St. Patrick's Bridge. These are only a handful, as over 30 designs were submitted (many by school children I'm sure). I took some screen grabs from the story.


1. Somewhat expected, but could be very elegant if done right.



2. This one has potential....my early favorite.



3. The Peace Bridge. A bridge so nice, they designed it twice?




4. Hard to make out any details on this one.


5. Inspired by a fishing line....I feel like thats a story line (a hook, if you will) that some will gravitate towards.


6. Someone has to come in last. I'm guessing this is one of the amateur entry's. I hope.

[Ozy_Flame]

Some of those look great. Too bad they're going to go well over the $25 million budget.

[Bigtime]

I was just debating whether or not to start this thread. But you beat me to it and I discovered your other alias on the internets!

[Bigtime]

On topic, I like the first one and the fishing line one could be very interesting.

[Claeren]

Seems like most are going to forget that the Calatrava bridge:

1) Is only $25M. While it seemed a lot at first, looking at these other bridges it may be the cheapest bridge proposed out of all of them.

2) It was designed with the engineering in mind (and in house). I am not sure any of these other bridges are.

3a) It did not have (and was not allowed to have) pillars in the water over a very long span.

3b) It did not have (and was not allowed to have) pylons up in the air to suspend the bridge off of.

(3a + 3b is a significant engineering and cost and design issue all of which was successfully addressed by Calatrava's design)

4) Anyone who thinks Calatrava's design will not stand the test of time did not see these other horrible looking monstrosities. Most are at best gimmicky and at worst hideous.




I am kind of concerned if that is the best of the bunch.


Claeren.

[Wookie]

3 and 4 while kind of neat - I think waste a lot of green space, provice too much area for people to congregate and get in the way (wheras on land they'd be on the grass) and holy bum shelter underneath that airplane sized runway bridge.

[4X4]

The thing that's cool about that bridge with the steps is that it could be a place for many people to congregate for whatever reason - like a performance of some kind, or just because. Sorta like the Spanish Steps. Except ugly as hell.

And it's being called the St. Patricks Bridge? Say it ain't so.

[Bob]

#2 needs railings, which would kill it's aesthetic. Otherwise very cool.

[GGG]

I really like number 4 and it looks like it would be feasable to engineer it as a modified suspension bridge.


Also the cost per hour of labour from these local firms will be less then calatavara's firm so to get the same bridge it would be cheaper.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by GGG

Also the cost per hour of labour from these local firms will be less then calatavara's firm so to get the same bridge it would be cheaper.

Not necessarily. You need the entire engineering component as well, not to mention the type of materials used, the design of the bridge itself (ex. no posts in the water if that's what the design calls for) and all other associated cost overruns, which there is likely to be.

Let us remember that architects and designers are NOT engineers. They're only one aspect of it, and both need to be involved in building bridges such as these.

[Muta]

Hmmm... a fishing line concept, eh? Go figure....

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Some of those look great. Too bad they're going to go well over the $25 million budget.

CMLC has stated that they are ok with spending more that $25 million if the right bridge will cost more than that.

I don't know why anyone would care about how much they spend on this bridge.

[SeeGeeWhy]

How the eff-effity-eff-eff did Barnes' entry get looked over for this!?

[jammies]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

I don't know why anyone would care about how much they spend on this bridge.

What if they spend more than it cost for the hoity-toity foreigner's bridge, and all the people who bitched and moaned about saving money by having a design competition look rather silly? Those people will care.

[4X4]

Clearly this bridge is just another one of Druh Farrell's attempts at increasing attendance at her Memorial Dr festival.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by jammies

What if they spend more than it cost for the hoity-toity foreigner's bridge, and all the people who bitched and moaned about saving money by having a design competition look rather silly? Those people will care.

So, they would then complain that a bridge with a higher budget cost more then a bridge with a lower budget? Basically that's what it would boil down to at that point.

Of course, those people who are uninformed will complain, but there's no real justifiable reason to do so.

Do people care if Suncor talks about building a billion dollar oilsands project, then later decide that a project costing two billion is a better option? If CMLC decides to build a bridge that would cost $50 million, it would basically be the same thing as that.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Of course, those people who are uninformed will complain, but there's no real justifiable reason to do so.

Of course there isn't, that's the point. It would just be ironic that the cheaper bridge would be the one built by the supposedly more expensive way of designing it.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by jammies

Of course there isn't, that's the point. It would just be ironic that the cheaper bridge would be the one built by the supposedly more expensive way of designing it.

True.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Not necessarily. You need the entire engineering component as well, not to mention the type of materials used, the design of the bridge itself (ex. no posts in the water if that's what the design calls for) and all other associated cost overruns, which there is likely to be.

Let us remember that architects and designers are NOT engineers. They're only one aspect of it, and both need to be involved in building bridges such as these.

An identical bridge designed and Engineered locally will be cheaper then bringing in the worlds most renowned bridge guy. The per hour rate he bills at will be more then our local firms. The final cost really depends on the design selected.

My problem with the first bridge has always been that is was that the location is uncessary and the the bridge design and engineering was untendered. My second big problem was we were paying for a cool bridge in a location with all kind of design restrictions that prevented from being a truely world class bridge. The second bridge is in a much more needed location and is being tendered fairly, and doesn't have excessive design restrictions.

The other thing is we should expect this bridge to be more expensive as the span is 50% longer then the first bridge.

[Bunk]

I am kind of concerned if that is the best of the bunch.

This is just a random smattering of bridges that appeared in the news story. It will certainly be interesting to see the full 33 entries. Lots of designs to choose from. It will eventually be narrowed to a shortlist - I assume around 5 proponents who will receive a stipend of $50,000 each to further refine their designs toward final selection.

And it's being called the St. Patricks Bridge? Say it ain't so.

From what I understand that is just the working name. The selection of the name will happen later. Personally, I'd love to see the bridge named after former Mayor Jack Leslie. He was instrumental in stopping the CPR mainline and a major freeway from be located on the banks of the Bow River, preserving it for its current public recreational use. I think it would be fitting.

Clearly this bridge is just another one of Druh Farrell's attempts at increasing attendance at her Memorial Dr festival.

It's pretty integral to the East Village revitalization. Also connections across the Bow River are very poor in this area. I think the new bridge will really help unlock the potential of St. Patrick's Island, which is a sadly underutilized gem in the city. The East Village master plan shows some really, really interesting ideas for St. Patrick's Island - it could easily be just as good or even better than Prince's Island.

Table5 - I love the tags to the thread! ha ha.