Is this worth 6k??

[jayocal]

My stepfather paid a "professional" to create a website for him based on a book he wrote.

Maybe I'm out to lunch and I'm no website developer but, I feel strongly that he got ripped off. Despite using something called "fatcow" to host the site, he was charged $6000.00. He was even charged and extra $99 for the domain!!!

If you have a chance, please take a look and give me some opinions. How much should a site like this be worth? I'd like to hear some more feedback before I back up my stepfather (btw who's computer/web knowledge = 0) and confront this person.

As well, if any web developers out there are interested in recreating this site at a reasonable cost, please PM me and I can forward my stepfather's contact information. He is willing to cut ties with this guy and start from or near scratch.

Stepdad's site:

http://www.onqbookpublishing.com/

This is the developer's website...not impressive either:

http://www.solarismarketing.ca

Thanks

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by jayocal

This is the developer's website...not impressive either:

http://www.solarismarketing.ca

Thanks

Well I am no website creation master but, I seem to remember it being rather expensive to get a website made, a couple thousand.

But the first thing i noticed on that guys website is that he uses a hotmail email address. Seriously? reaks of amatuer hour for a regular business, a guy doing web work? would be a insta pass for me. If even I can setup email addresses theres no reason that guy shouldn't with the domain he already owns. Furthermore the buttons at the top of the website he created for you are borderline unreadable.

Edit: looked up a old quote i got awhile back for a website I would suggest would be a similar amount of work and it was around 1000.

[Rathji]

I think I could make that website by cutting and pasting stuff into a $50 template from here, and I seriously do not think I am even stretching the truth.

[Nancy]

You could have done this cheaply by using a template and a canned design. But once you decide to go with a custom design, it's a whole different ball game.

[getbak]

What did he get for the $6,000?

Is hosting included? What kind of hosting plan is it, and for how long is it? Did they write all of the content on the page or just slap something pre-written into the design? How long is the domain name registered for?

To go along with that, what are the future costs going to be, and how often will they be required? Also, who will handle domain and hosting renewals?

How much input did your stepfather have in the process?

How does the affiliate marketing scheme work? Is it pretty much automated to join and get paid? Who handles paying the affiliates?

How does ordering and receiving the book work? Who handles the money and the shipping?

Without knowing how much of the $6,000 went towards the behind-the-scenes stuff, it's hard to say if it was overpriced.


What was your stepfather promised for the price, and what does he feel was not delivered?

Did he get an itemized breakdown of the costs, or was it a flat-fee? Did he know it was going to cost $6,000 when he signed the contract, or was the final price a surprise? If it was a fixed price, he should get the changes he wants until he's satisfied.

What doesn't he like about it, what would he want changed, and why didn't he tell the designer that he didn't like it and ask for it to be changed?

There was a breakdown somewhere in the process for a site to get to the stage it's at and the customer to be unhappy with it. Either there weren't enough steps of approval in the process where your stepfather could say "wait, I don't like that" (which is the designer's fault), or your stepfather was asked for his feedback and he gave his approval, so the designer had no idea there was a problem (which is your stepfather's fault).


Finally, how much shopping around did your stepfather do before deciding to hire this company? Why did he go with them over someone else? What were the comparable prices?

Without knowing what was promised, it's hard to say if it was underdelivered, or simply the expectations were too high.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Web designers often way overvalue their services - they are generally a pure commodity.

Lots of that site is so-so. The SEO basics are about half done, the site doesn't disguise email addresses so the info@ email address is going to be a spam suck in no time (if not already) ...there's a typo in that on the contact page too BTW. There's no analytics installed, form capture etc - and way too much text on page.

The same site done very well by a top end firm would be 5k ish. You could get this done pretty well from a few dozen people in town for $1k-$3k depending on content development etc. If you looked for a guy out of his basement you could get the same as what is there for $500 using a $50 dreamweaver template - hehe ..or call rathji I see.

I should point out I'd agree with the others that without knowing who promised what and everything that goes on in the back end I'm only generalizing.

[koop]

http://www.onqbookpublishing.com/
http://www.onqbookpublishing.com/guiltconquered.html

Unless I'm seeing things the home page is centered differently than the other pages.

[dobbles]

6k seems awful high. and 99 for a domain? you can buy it yourself for 10!

regarding the site, i didnt go everywhere, but it seems like its just a flat site right? the purchasing is done through paypal, and there didn't seem to be any dynamic interactive features? because thats when things get complicated and hosting can start to play a factor.

in my opinion, i wouldn't pay more than $500 for a project this size. for this site specifically, i would say maybe 100-200 would be my price. i don't think it would take much hosting for this site, so that could probably be handled on a shared server for 100 bucks a year. i run the website for the college i work at and we get over a million hits on our homepage each year if that helps to understand where i am coming from.

also, for an example, check out our cpfatas.com website for the eashl team. that site costs a whopping 8 bucks a year! all i paid for was the domain. it sits on my server in my spare bedroom. it was created via wordpress and free templates and plugins. it uses free technologies like php and mysql. while its not the greatest thing since sliced bread, its put together well and almost totally free.

[dobbles]

not sure if he was promised a custom design, but this look sawfully similar:

http://www.getiit.com/

http://www.waytotrial.com/

[Iceman90]

As a professional web developer myself, I'd be curious to know what pricing system was agreed upon for the project. Was it a flate rate, or hourly rate? Did your stepfather let the designer know what his budget was before starting the project?

I don't think $6,000.00 is totally unreasonable for this project. If it was done by a firm, who had to pay a few people to produce the site, perhaps an editor or copywriter, plus a project and perhaps account manager, that fee could be right on par, depending on their hourly rate.

Did you get an itemized invoice? If not, ask for one. That should let you know what you were charged for, so you know where the costs started to add up.

To be able to fairly evaluate the price, I'd need to know what was promised. While websites can often look very simple, there is often a lot that goes on behind the scenes that the average user doesn't see. If the client wants to be able to manage their own content, implementing a content management system can add to a project's costs for sure, as just one example of things that people don't see on the front end.

Also, a lot of times web designers/developers end up doing more than just development of the site, including copywriting/editing (if not in the original scope of work), graphic creation or sourcing, etc. All of these take billable time as well, and are often out of scope of the original agreement, which could mean paying for this time at a premium.

As getback said, for the website to have gone live, and the client to be unhappy, means there was a breakdown in the system somewhere. Did your stepfather ask for an estimate on the site before work began? Did he get regular updates of costs throughout the project? Did he approve the work before going live, and discuss any concerns with the web designer, so they could be fixed?

I get my domain names for about $15 from a registrar that I trust (not necessarily the cheapest by any means). $99 is very high, even if the designer were to mark up the cost.

[photon]

Good questions Iceman90.

Unfortunately there's tons of designers out there that don't have a good process setup with their customers, so either the customer ends up feeling ripped off because they didn't get what they wanted, or the designer gets ripped off because the customer wants a billion changes and ends up being too involved in the process.

There's a balance.

As for the site being $6000, that sure doesn't look like a $6000 website. $6k for what amounts to a pamphlet website may be reasonable IF the site is kickass, but this one is very generic.

But if you're someone who knows nothing of design or internet sites, how do you know what's reasonable?

Heh, there's another business, a website design broker that chooses good designers for you.

[Nancy]

Just had a closer look at the web site, and especially now that it has been shown to be based on an existing template, yah, I'd have to say that the developer has something to answer for. But maybe you should talk to the guy in a non-confrontational way without having your stepfather present. There could still be some other side to the story.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

The same site done very well by a top end firm would be 5k ish. You could get this done pretty well from a few dozen people in town for $1k-$3k depending on content development etc.

I doubt a "top-end" firm would even touch anything under 50k. I'm a graphic designer who mostly deals in print and illustration, but even I wouldn't consider a custom web design under 6-8k. It's just not worth the effort.

While this site seems like a template, people fail to realize that it takes time to do this custom work (I would never do anything off of a template, that is not good Design). Just because someone has dreamweaver and photoshop doesnt mean they know how to design an appropriate website.

[Table 5]

zing!

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by Table 5

I doubt a "top-end" firm would even touch anything under 50k. I'm a graphic designer who mostly deals in print and illustration, but even I wouldn't consider a custom web design under 6-8k. It's just not worth the effort.

While this site seems like a template, people fail to realize that it takes time to do this custom work (I would never do anything off of a template, that is not good Design). Just because someone has dreamweaver and photoshop doesnt mean they know how to design an appropriate website.

I meant top end among companies that would be anywhere near this kind of project. For sure anything remotely agency style is a whole different gig.

Most 'web designers' are techies who figure they can buy or fudge the graphics, or graphic designers who figure dreamweaver can't be much different than photoshop so why not.

There are some that focus on SMEs that do great work though, in my experience anyway.

[Tower]

If I did a website - it would be like Tools.

http://www.toolband.com/

Sweet

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by photon

Heh, there's another business, a website design broker that chooses good designers for you.

You joke, but we used to do that in my little biz and there is huge demand. Too many businesses either buy crap or way overpay (overbuy) in an effort to avoid getting crap.

We turned it into a 100k revenue line without trying - purely on request.

[photon]

Hm... I'm more a maven than anything else, maybe that's the kind of business I should setup.

[Hack&Lube]

The site looks decent but it seems to be based on a template that looks very generic and not condusive to the purpose of selling the ideas of that book. The aesthetic seems cold and rubs me the wrong way.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

Most 'web designers' are techies who figure they can buy or fudge the graphics, or graphic designers who figure dreamweaver can't be much different than photoshop so why not.

Yep, thats true. It's somewhat of a big issue in our industry. I spent 6 years getting a Bachelors and Masters in design, worked at some fairly high level firms internationally, and my biggest competition is still someone's cousin who has Photoshop. The general public doesn't always realize the difference, and i guess we in the industry haven't done a good enough job to communicate it to them! It's actually one of the reason's i left the city though...