Scouting the 2009 draft

[Flame4Ever]

Yes I know it's early in the season, which is why I put this here insted of on the main board.
I wanted to create an ongoing thread where those of us that get to take in a few CHL/NCAA/USHL or foreign games can give people our amateur scouting reports on the draft eligibles for the next year.
If you've had the opportunity to watch a draft eligible player live and he made an impression on you, (good or bad) please post it here so we can keep track of them and to keep fans of Junior hockey informed on who they should keep an eye out for when they take in their nex game.

I got to catch the Kitchener - Guelph game this past Monday (Oct 13) and came away impressed with Peter Holland. Who is currently ranked 26 by ISS. Holland is a good all around player with great work ethic. He works hard in all areas of the ice. Holland is a very good skater, with good acceleration, agility and excellnt top end speed. His puck protection is very good and he makes full use of his size. His passing and vision are also good and he setup a beatiful tic-tac-toe goalthat was amazing to watch. Holland is also not afraid to mix it up and he can also crash and bang quite well on the forecheck. Holland also got to see some PK time, and looked very good. Apparently Holland was also an amazing sniper in Midget.

Unfortunately, Guelph seems to favour playing their over agers quite a bit and despite Holland being the best player on the ice for both teams , his line did not get a ton of ice time maybe around 14 mins.

My opinion on Holland is that he would make a fine prospect. While he may not have the stats of a top end offensive player, I think his offensive potential is much larger than the number suggest, especially when playing on a defensive minded team like Guelph. (Jus to give you an idea, they were playing a one man deep forechek when they were down a goal with the other forwards hanging slightly below the blue line. )
I think he could be a Mike Fischer/ Brandon Dubinsky type of player at best and a Kyle Chipchura/Ryan Kesler at worst.

[Ronald Pagan]

I've been looking for a list of top draft eligible prospects in the OHL. I get to a bunch of 67s games so I can provide some amateur reports.

[Flame4Ever]

Try this for a list.

From the OHL:

JOHN TAVARES Oshawa
MATT DUCHENE Brampton
NAZEM KADRI London
ZACK KASSIAN Peterborough
TAYLOR DOHERTY
RYAN ELLIS Windsor
PETER HOLLAND Guelph

[ScoutMan]

I'll get to see quite a bit of Jared Cowen this year in Spokane. I'll also be keeping an eye on Tyler Johnson. Flying low under the radar, but that kid has a ton of talent and no quit in him.


Tonight - Spokane 5 - Kamloops 2

Jared Cowen and Tyler Johnson both potted a goal each. Mitch Wahl got 2 assists in the game. Cowen used his size to his advantage and destroyed people along the boards.

[Ronald Pagan]

Originally Posted by Flame4Ever

Try this for a list.

From the OHL:

JOHN TAVARES Oshawa
MATT DUCHENE Brampton
NAZEM KADRI London
ZACK KASSIAN Peterborough
TAYLOR DOHERTY
RYAN ELLIS Windsor
PETER HOLLAND Guelph

Thanks, will do.

[Flame4Ever]

Originally Posted by ScoutMan

Jared Cowen and Tyler Johnson both potted a goal each. Mitch Wahl got 2 assists in the game. Cowen used his size to his advantage and destroyed people along the boards.

How's Cowan's skating and mobility? He didn't seem to be too bad at the the mem cup, but he ssemed to have trouble with the occasional guy blazing wide on him. His lateral mobility looked like it had room for improvement as well during those games.

[SparkyOne]

I should be able to see Seth Helgeson and Louis LeBlanc....as well as Nick Larson, who was drafted by Calgary this year.

[ScoutMan]

How's Cowan's skating and mobility?

I've only seen a few games so far this year, but he looks strong. While there is certainly room for improvement, he looks much more explosive to me this year, with better acceleration. At 6'5" or 6'6" and well over 200 lbs, I tend to think he "looks" slower than he really is. I hadn't really noticed him having trouble moving East to West, so I will have to keep an eye out for it.

[bigtmac19]

Am going to try to get to more Spitfire games this year. Ryan Ellis will be a good prospect I think.

[Flame4Ever]

Problem with Ellis is that he's just proving that he's an extremely good offensive defenceman without addressing any of his size/defensive zone concerns. While I think he has a future as an NHL defenceman in some capacity even as a #6 guy that is a top PP QB, his ability to defend especially against larger opponents was the question mark against him this season and from what I've heard he still gets pushed around a lot.
While I won't make a final judgement until I've watched him a few more times and seen how he's done this season, don't let his gaudy numbers convince you that he's a world beater.

[Flame4Ever]

Watched the 9-4 dismantling of the Plymouth Whalers by the Spitfires today and was very pleasantly surprised by Ellis. This guy can be as every bit as good as Brian Campbell IMHO. He's certainly matured defensively and is an extremely good skater. Still needs to be a bit more polished in his own end, but he has surprising strength and handles himself well at the OHL level in front of his own net. Has a bit of a physical edge to his game, similar to Campbell in how he hit Umberger in the playoffs. Is a great PP QB with an absolute rocket of a shot that seems to get through traffic most of the time. could see him as a great top 3 guy, especially when paired with a big rugged workhorse for a partner.

During commercials I flipped to the Guelph - Saginaw game, I was going to pay more attention to this one, but when I found out Brodie was injured, I wasn't that interested. Got to see a bit of Peter Holland and I must say the kid has a pretty good shot arsenal and I could see why he was such a great scorer at the midget level.

[Pauly]

Evander Kane is a stud. Guy is putting up crazy numbers this year for the Vancouver Giants. He'll go 1st round easy this year. We dont have to worry about him coming to Calgary tho, he's fast, agile, crafty, has great hands, a wicked shot, great vision, see's the ice well, puts up huge points & is extremely skilled, a rare commodity. (i.e. nothing the Flames would ever be interested in drafting).

Kid is phenomenal tho, so skilled, got to see him already this year. Will get good consideration for the World Junior team this year as a 17 yr. old, definitely a rare true offensive talent. If anyone gets the chance to catch him when the Vancouver Giants are here, I'd recommend it.

[Flame4Ever]

How is Kane's speed Pauly?
This article seems to bash him a lot. Not that I put much stock into what Kyle Woodlief says, but not having seen Kane I don't know what to make of it.

[Pauly]

Originally Posted by Flame4Ever

How is Kane's speed Pauly?
This article seems to bash him a lot. Not that I put much stock into what Kyle Woodlief says, but not having seen Kane I don't know what to make of it.

Acceleration was really good, guy is little, he looked under 5'10 from seeing him up close, small & speedy. Have no idea what that author is talking about, he obviously hasnt seen Kane play in person, nor on tv most likely. Dont know too many little guys that cant skate, if that was the case they wouldnt even make it to the major junior level.

I'd say as a 17 yr. old he's already a top 5 player in the WHL this year. Will be on the bubble for the world junior team, depends on how many other offensive guys are already in consideration.

[Flame4Ever]

I thought as much. I agree with you in that I have yet to see a small, slow CHL hockey player. What's Kane's temperament like on the ice? Is he feisty, does he mix it up, or is just a pure scorer who sticks to what he seems to do best?

Woodlief seems to talk out of his ass quite a bit. That's the reason I started this thread, hoping to leverage CPs awesome power to be able to bring together a complete draft preview for everybody sometime in early June. Thanks for all the reports guys, keep up the good work!

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by Pauly

We dont have to worry about him coming to Calgary tho, he's fast, agile, crafty, has great hands, a wicked shot, great vision, see's the ice well, puts up huge points & is extremely skilled, a rare commodity. (i.e. nothing the Flames would ever be interested in drafting).

what a load of crap

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

I live in Calberta and rarely go to W games, it's hard to asses talent coming into our barn when the Hitmen have been downright,...hitmen. They have been destroying teams.

And yeah, Pauly what's with the Jab? Didn't like Backlund? Or Mitch Wahl? Or Matt Lombardi? They all were pretty offensive in their junior days, save for Wahl who is exceeding his last year's play.

Anyone seen Jimmy Bubnick this year? He's a Western Kid with a lot of size and showing a promising scoring touch. I know we drafted Neimisz but as a western canadian guy, big guys who like to score = good. Personally I feel this draft will focus on offensive talent with some more hit or miss players.

Basically, whoever gets to see draft eligible prospects please, all information is welcome, just not the uneducated low-blows.

PS, with Kane, I thought he was listed at 6'1 with average speed, hence woodlief's reports.

[Pauly]

Calgary doesn't typically go after high-end skilled forwards. Look at their draft history, we havent drafted and developed a top 10 in the league scoring forward since Theoren Fleury. Name me one player since Theo Fleury that we drafted back in the late 80's that developed into a top 10 offensive talent in the league. Notta single one. Dallas drafted Jarome, not us. We HAD St. Louis but failed to develop him in our system properly, what happened? He went to Tampa Bay and they did with him what we couldnt with all the raw talent he had. Wahl & Backlund have potential for sure, wont be able to judge that for years to come what type of player we can develop them into. Lombardi? You're kidding right, the guy has never hit the 50pt mark in a season, he is by no means an offensive stud that has 90+ point potential in the NHL, he doesnt have the skill set. In terms of drafting and development, we've been horrible....doesn't make me feel good saying that, wish it was otherwise, but it hasnt been the case. Luckily we're not the only team. On the other hand, look at teams that have drafted & developed extremely well (i.e Detroit). We've historically drafted more 2-way type players that fit our "gritty, defensive minded" system and chip in when they can.

Backlund in terms of pure offensive skill would be there with Kane. Wahl is not the same type of player as Evander Kane tho at all, watch Kane and you'll see what I'm talking about, Wahl doesnt fit the description of an Evander Kane type player. Thats all I was geting at. I'd really like to see the Flames go for guys that are extremely skilled offensively, but Darryl seems to like guys that can put the puck in the net but play a two-way game as well. Not saying thats a bad thing, just the way Darryl operates. Just my personal opinion I'd love to inject more raw skill onto the team, even if its another smaller Cammallerri type player (i.e. Kane), in my mind that would be great to draft someone that fits that mold to balance out the team. Again, just my opinion tho.

[Flame4Ever]

Pauly, we may disagree on Calgary draft philosophy but you're making it sound like Calgary wouldn't grab Crosby if he had been available for them.
Kane is a player from the 'dub. If you play in the WHL, you have to be able to survive a physical game. If Kane is available and the flames getan opportunity to draft him, you can bank that they'll get him. I think he ends up being a top 5 prospect by the end of the year, somwhere Calgary shouldn't be drafting.
The problem with drafting "high end offensive talent" at the end of the draft, is there's usually a big reason they fell down to that position. Maybe they're tiny like Tedenby was; maybe they're soft and can't skate like Schremp. Either way I'd rather get someone with a slightly lower ceiling but a much higher chance of making it, especially given the fact that we don't have prospects coming out the wazoo.

Here's a short cideo of Kane playing show on TSN

[Torture]

Dallas drafted Jarome, not us.

But we developed him.

You say drafting St Louis doesn't count because we didn't develop him properly, but you also say that developing Jarome doesn't count cause we didn't draft him. Am I the only one who sees a problem with this?