Cheifs Threaten Train Blockades on June 29

[Cowboy89]

I know there was a native blockade discussion a week or two ago but there was an announcement of a specific threat by the AFN for train companies to shut down trains on June 29th in honor of their 'day of action.' If they do not the AFN warns that they will face blockades by individual bands.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home

Just so anybody who plans on travel by train around that time knows that might not be the best time.

[Thunderball]

I see nothing good coming of this. In fact, I see another Oka on the horizon.

CP and CN are billion dollar companies and will likely hire private security forces to protect their trains... these types mixed with angry native youth will invariably lead to conflict the local RCMPs can't control.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

I see nothing good coming of this. In fact, I see another Oka on the horizon.

CP and CN are billion dollar companies and will likely hire private security forces to protect their trains... these types mixed with angry native youth will invariably lead to conflict the local RCMPs can't control.

You can't protect a train from being blockaded when it goes through a reserve. They can drive an old car onto the tracks and wait for the train to either stop or crash into it and then start the blockade.

[Barnes]

CP and CN have their own police forces so no need for private security.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

You can't protect a train from being blockaded when it goes through a reserve. They can drive an old car onto the tracks and wait for the train to either stop or crash into it and then start the blockade.

Well, I'm sure they have contingency plans in place, and part of that has to be private security to protect the CP employees.

Also, I do believe that CP (at least) owns the right-of-way along their railroads... even through reserves. Not that it helps a lot, but at least it gives them legal recourse.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Barnes

CP and CN have their own police forces so no need for private security.

heh... oh yeah, they do. Upon further review, they'll probably lead all trains with one of those special trucks that run on tracks to pull any car off the track before the actual train arrives.

[Flashpoint]

Why would Cheifs blockade trains? Not enough sunflower oil?

HA!

I hope these native activists are thankful they are situated in Canada, not the US. In the states a guy just got 13 years in prison after being decaired an "eco-terrorist".

http://www.casperstartribune.net/art...e3007c9bac.txt


I see native blockades as very similar to extremist enviornmental activisim. It draws attention to their complaints, but it also gives law enforcement an excuse to crack down - even if a protest is peaceful.

Plus it ticks the majority of the population off...

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

Well, I'm sure they have contingency plans in place, and part of that has to be private security to protect the CP employees.

Also, I do believe that CP (at least) owns the right-of-way along their railroads... even through reserves. Not that it helps a lot, but at least it gives them legal recourse.

The term legal recourse doesn't apply to natives, at least they don't see it that way. The legal system is 'white-man's' laws and thus they do not apply to them. I actually heard this during the Caledonia struggle. Of course 'their' laws seem to only stem from oral tradition and have a funny way of magically coming down on all four sides of every issue so that if anything is done by a native against another race it can't be considered wrong.

Also our government is so afraid of the 'R' word that whenever a situation unfolds that can be somehow interpreted by some of the most insane people as racism they stick their tail between their legs and open up the checkbook and write a blank one. In the Maritimes there actually has been treaty disputes resolved by the government accepting terms that they alledgedly set back in the Upper and Lower Canada days orally. In other words native bands squeak and claim something in a despute and mention that it's their right due to some oral agreement pre-dating the British North America act. This 'blockade' is another rediculous attempt at achieving the same goal - milking the cow once again. Whatever pay day they deem acceptable this summer, they'll be back for more in another few years.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

The term legal recourse doesn't apply to natives, at least they don't see it that way. The legal system is 'white-man's' laws and thus they do not apply to them. I actually heard this during the Caledonia struggle. Of course 'their' laws seem to only stem from oral tradition and have a funny way of magically coming down on all four sides of every issue so that if anything is done by a native against another race it can't be considered wrong.

Also our government is so afraid of the 'R' word that whenever a situation unfolds that can be somehow interpreted by some of the most insane people as racism they stick their tail between their legs and open up the checkbook and write a blank one. In the Maritimes there actually has been treaty disputes resolved by the government accepting terms that they alledgedly set back in the Upper and Lower Canada days orally. In other words native bands squeak and claim something in a despute and mention that it's their right due to some oral agreement pre-dating the British North America act. This 'blockade' is another rediculous attempt at achieving the same goal - milking the cow once again. Whatever pay day they deem acceptable this summer, they'll be back for more in another few years.

Can't deny that the intent is yet another payout from the government trough. Also can't deny that the Natives proudly declare themselves as being above the law, due largely to government cowardice and the everpresent desire to be politically correct, regardless of cost.

Difference is, CP and CN are large corporations, and aren't worried about election-type issues such as cozying up to the politically correct. They are worried about losing millions of dollars in an act of political/cultural terrorism. Like the Natives, CP (especially) also holds the nation by the short and curlies, which would lead to an interesting legal battle.

Whether or not the Government signs a cheque, you can expect some significant action from the railroads if this proceeds.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

In the Maritimes there actually has been treaty disputes resolved by the government accepting terms that they alledgedly set back in the Upper and Lower Canada days orally. In other words native bands squeak and claim something in a despute and mention that it's their right due to some oral agreement pre-dating the British North America act.

Oh for sure. Natives have been screwing the white man over on treaties for 200 years. It's really a miracle the Europeans kept coming over here, knowing they'd have to deal with those sneaky Indians who get whatever they want.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

Can't deny that the intent is yet another payout from the government trough. Also can't deny that the Natives proudly declare themselves as being above the law, due largely to government cowardice and the everpresent desire to be politically correct, regardless of cost.

Difference is, CP and CN are large corporations, and aren't worried about election-type issues such as cozying up to the politically correct. They are worried about losing millions of dollars in an act of political/cultural terrorism. Like the Natives, CP (especially) also holds the nation by the short and curlies, which would lead to an interesting legal battle.

Whether or not the Government signs a cheque, you can expect some significant action from the railroads if this proceeds.

Heck if CP is still on strike then, they might just take the day off. Did you know that their upper management head office employees actually work the rails and drive trains during the strike? This might actually be a welcome break for some of them. Also who says corporations aren't subject to the political whims of the day? Oil and Gas companies are all running all over each other to speak about environmental stewardship and to denounce greenhouse gases with no actual plan themselves to do anything about it.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Oh for sure. Natives have been screwing the white man over on treaties for 200 years. It's really a miracle the Europeans kept coming over here, knowing they'd have to deal with those sneaky Indians who get whatever they want.

Ah yes the old 'once a victim, always a victim' philosophy. If we applied that philosophy today then coming from an abusive family can be used to justify pretty much any act of individual atrocity. . . . oh wait . . . spoke too soon.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Heck if CP is still on strike then, they might just take the day off. Did you know that their upper management head office employees actually work the rails and drive trains during the strike? This might actually be a welcome break for some of them. Also who says corporations aren't subject to the political whims of the day? Oil and Gas companies are all running all over each other to speak about environmental stewardship and to denounce greenhouse gases with no actual plan themselves to do anything about it.

Oil and Gas Companies aren't quite as omnipotent as the rail companies. Perception, Strategy, Marketing and Sales are crucial to the survival of an Oil and Gas company. Rail companies survive on the fact that they are oligarchs and dominate their means of production... if not them, who else is gonna do it, and build their own trans-canada railroad? Look at the beating Talisman took for their operations in the Sudan for example.

They may very well take the day off if the strike is still on, but odds are its too much money to lose for their comfort, and they'll battle on. I personally hope they do, someone needs to stand up against these inappropriate acts.

The whole dispute reminds me of a child threatening their "new age" parents with damaging the family vehicle if they don't get more allowance... since they spent all theirs on stupid things, and consider that their parents fault.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Ah yes the old 'once a victim, always a victim' philosophy. If we applied that philosophy today then coming from an abusive family can be used to justify pretty much any act of individual atrocity. . . . oh wait . . . spoke too soon.

Ah yes, the old 'change the subject' philosophy.

To suggest that the Natives have and are getting a sweet deal on land treaties in this country is ridiculous.

And if they have managed to wrangle something out of an old verbal agreement, do you really have a problem with them doing so? You wouldn't do the same?

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Ah yes, the old 'change the subject' philosophy.

To suggest that the Natives have and are getting a sweet deal on land treaties in this country is ridiculous.

And if they have managed to wrangle something out of an old verbal agreement, do you really have a problem with them doing so? You wouldn't do the same?

To jump in... Natives in general are not getting a fair deal... they are getting screwed on multiple angles, are often used as pawns by both sides and bear the brunt of public disdain.

Native elites on the other hand, are screwing everyone and living very high off the hog because of it. Their actions pigeon-hole those they represent and frequently use these people for their own gain. They talk about the white man only recognizing guns and money, while they, much like organized criminals, thrive on those, and the helplessness of those within their clutches.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

The whole dispute reminds me of a child threatening their "new age" parents with damaging the family vehicle if they don't get more allowance... since they spent all theirs on stupid things, and consider that their parents fault.

It reminds of the reparation payments in the US. A white family that once had a black family of slaves pays them money. It seems so odd because the white family are no longer slave owners and the blacks aren't slaves. It would be like you punching someone today and your grandson going to jail 40 years later.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Burninator

It reminds of the reparation payments in the US. A white family that once had a black family of slaves pays them money. It seems so odd because the white family are no longer slave owners and the blacks aren't slaves. It would be like you punching someone today and your grandson going to jail 40 years later.

That is also an apt analogy.

[Muta]

Reminds me of a time when my father was offered a reparation payment for some Ukrainian issue that happened generations ago (I can't remember what it was). My father turned it down, and basically responded with "Why should I get this money? It never happened to me, and the whole thing happened ages ago, from which my relatives helped themselves to overcome it. People move on, and you can't let yourself be a victim forever."

Completely agree.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Ah yes, the old 'change the subject' philosophy.

To suggest that the Natives have and are getting a sweet deal on land treaties in this country is ridiculous.

And if they have managed to wrangle something out of an old verbal agreement, do you really have a problem with them doing so? You wouldn't do the same?

I didn't imply that the natives were at fault for anything. I was blaming our tail between the legs government for letting them get away with such things. Heck I don't blame someone for going to the well again after many sucessful efforts. What I don't support is our government paying in excess of what they have already agreed to in actual official treaties. The taxpayers are worse off because excess money is continually spent and the natives themselves are worse off due to dependence on these expenditures. Don't get me started on the actual chiefs themselves. If you've ever been to Mexico at an all-inclusive resort during one of their 'meetings of chiefs' you'd understand that there's more than just money needed to help the situation of the common native.

[Cowboy89]

UPDATE: Specific disturbances mentioned for Friday, June 29th

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home

For you GTA commuters out there:

The protesters are considering shutting down the CN Rail mainline that runs between Toronto and Montreal, as well as Highway 401

Anybody hear of anything specific planned for Western Canada?