"Anti-US"

[Sparks]

I was reading the "Galloway" thread, and it reminded me of something that's been bothering me for a long time. It seems that people are extremely quick to pull the "anti-US" card. Here's what I mean:

Any criticism of the United States seems to be immediately branded with this label. Any. And let's face it - the United States is far from perfect, but the same can be easily said with regards to Canada, Mexico, the United Kingdom, China, Japan... God, Luxembourg! Shouldn't it be obvious that no country is perfect?

Take a look at our personal lives - it's criticism that teaches us to be better people. It's a valuable gift. Everybody knows that.

So, why, when questions are raised about American foreign policy after 9/11, it's "anti-US?" Why, when questions are raised about the States' funding (and support) of various regimes over the years, it's anti-American? If anything, it's extremely pro-US! As a Canadian, I'm proud of my country, and want to know how we can make it even better. Don't Americans en masse? Don't their apologists?

There are a tonne of great things about the United States. You can't live on this planet and disagree with that statement. And, like every other country, there are serious problems (take American - and Soviet - foreign policy in Afghanistan from 1979-1991 as just one example). It seems the same mistakes just keep being repeated, and it's taboo to even bring them up. Why?

[Azure]

I think you need to take your argument a bit farther, and include dissent as something that gets labeled anti-American.

I'm very right-wing on US foreign policy, but I must admit, CP has certainly opened my eyes to issues I was not aware of. One of those issues is what you are explaining.

One thing that gets me though is when people strive to compare known terrorist organization, like Hezbollah, to the US. A clear difference, IMO, but to some extent, terrorism of today does not get that distinction.

I do believe Lanny said in another thread that we are living in an age of extremism. I wholeheartedly agree, including the extremism you are talking about in labeling any one that has criticism for the US, plus those that take their beliefs to extremes, such as I pointed out with labeling the US as a terrorist nation.

Yes, it may be a nation that has in the past supported certain people that are terrorists today, but that certainly does not entail that they themselves are a terrorist nation.

Very good post, BTW.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Sparks

I was reading the "Galloway" thread, and it reminded me of something that's been bothering me for a long time. It seems that people are extremely quick to pull the "anti-US" card. Here's what I mean:

Any criticism of the United States seems to be immediately branded with this label. Any.

If you take that one thread in isolation, it sure might look like that.

If you take the vast history of the Off-Topic board, you might have a different opinion.

The vast majority of people who have had the anti-US card played against them have never said anything good about the US. It's okay to be a critic or a cynic, if you admit (and argue as such) that there are some things that are good. If everything is bad, you're anti- it.

In the same way, anybody who seems to support the US position in any way gets labeled as pro-US, or a neo-con, or "in bed with Bush", or whatever. It's not just on this board but in public in general. It is still okay to have similar thoughts as the US/Bush and disagree with them in other matters.... but that seems to get ignored too.

Originally Posted by Sparks

And let's face it - the United States is far from perfect, but the same can be easily said with regards to Canada, Mexico, the United Kingdom, China, Japan... God, Luxembourg! Shouldn't it be obvious that no country is perfect?

I agree with you. No country is perfect. That said, no country is absolutely 100% wrong all the time either - which position those frequently labeled anti-US seem to take on an increasingly frequent basis.

Originally Posted by Sparks

So, why, when questions are raised about American foreign policy after 9/11, it's "anti-US?" Why, when questions are raised about the States' funding (and support) of various regimes over the years, it's anti-American? If anything, it's extremely pro-US! As a Canadian, I'm proud of my country, and want to know how we can make it even better. Don't Americans en masse? Don't their apologists?

So... those that criticize the US aren't anti-US, but those that defend the US are apologists? Good one!

[RedMan12]

America is always sticking their nose in other countries problems and not taking care of their own.

America has trillions of dollars to spend on war but they can't feed their own poor.

[flames_1987]

Some of the nicest people in the world all Americans.

As for the country as a whole, I don't hate the players, I hate the game.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by flames_1987

Some of the nicest people in the world all Americans.

As for the country as a whole, I don't hate the players, I hate the game.

That's an excellent thing to keep in mind when you're talking about US policy... it's the biggest game of Diplomacy in the world, and the US President has to play it with real people's lives. Not a great position to be put in... how do you handle it? Sometimes you miscalculate and make allies with people who end up stabbing you in the back. It's part of the game.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by RedMan12

America is always sticking their nose in other countries problems and not taking care of their own.

America has trillions of dollars to spend on war but they can't feed their own poor.

I guess we come back to the same old argument, "they choose to be that way."

Believe it or not, the billions, not trillions like you claim can go a long way in the right way if used properly.

[RedMan12]

how do you know its not trillions? The war in Iraq alone has cost them something like 270 billion.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by RedMan12

how do you know its not trillions? The war in Iraq alone has cost them something like 270 billion.

Gee whiz, you answered your own question....

I find it amusing the people will equate the amount the US spends on their military to the poor people in the US.

There is a lot of other needless pork that could be cut from the budget....

[RedMan12]

Originally Posted by Azure

Gee whiz, you answered your own question....

I find it amusing the people will equate the amount the US spends on their military to the poor people in the US.

There is a lot of other needless pork that could be cut from the budget....

In my original post I never said which war, I just said war and I bet America has spent a trillion dollars on war.
America has one of the worst healthcare and welfare systems for a developed nation. I have lived in America for 10 years and have seen way worse poverty then in Canada. Just seems like America has the potential to do really good things with their large amounts of money but it is more often then not used to increase their own economic wealth and kill countless innocent people in wars that have alterior motives.

[Barnes]

Up until last week, many parts of New Orleans did not have postal service, yet they will have NFL football this year. Thousands of school kids have missed an entire year of school and will probably miss another next year but the big story will be how great of patriotic symbol it will be to have football back. Patriotism is the Rohypnol of the US population. Wake up and look what's going on. Not in Iraq, Pakistan, or Israel and take a drive in your own neighborhood.

[RedMan12]

Originally Posted by Barnes

Up until last week, many parts of New Orleans did not have postal service, yet they will have NFL football this year. Thousands of school kids have missed an entire year of school and will probably miss another next year but the big story will be how great of patriotic symbol it will be to have football back. Patriotism is the Rohypnol of the US population. Wake up and look what's going on. Not in Iraq, Pakistan, or Israel and take a drive in your own neighborhood.

but there is no Oil in New Orleans.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by RedMan12

In my original post I never said which war, I just said war and I bet America has spent a trillion dollars on war.
America has one of the worst healthcare and welfare systems for a developed nation. I have lived in America for 10 years and have seen way worse poverty then in Canada. Just seems like America has the potential to do really good things with their large amounts of money but it is more often then not used to increase their own economic wealth and kill countless innocent people in wars that have alterior motives.

First of all, the US wouldn't be the only nation not to spend a trillion dollars on their military(not war).

Second, the US does not have a public system of health care, therefore the comparison between Canada(which does have a public system) is invalid.

Third, innocent people always die in war, and the US certainly does not kill innocent people by spending more money on their military. By expanding their military, and increasing the funding, I would say the US has greatly reduced the amount of innocent civilians being killed.

And lastly, just because innocent people die in wars certainly does not entail that the war is carried out based on alterior motives. And since you're not referring to Iraq, then neither am I.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by RedMan12

but there is no Oil in New Orleans.

At least try and respond to his post....

If oil had such an effect on which countries the US conducts war upon, why don't they just invade Canada?

I do believe we have the second largest supply of oil.

[RedMan12]

If you call health care paying it yourself then fine.

American soilders often go out of their way to loot, rape and murder innocent civialians caught in the cross fire of war.

America does spend way too much on militay and not enough on other important needs like healthcare and education.

[icarus]

Originally Posted by fotze

Michael Moore is American
Noam Chaomsky is American

Michael Moore is a black person
Noam Chomsky is a black person

Cool!

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Azure

At least try and respond to his post....

If oil had such an effect on which countries the US conducts war upon, why don't they just invade Canada?

I do believe we have the second largest supply of oil.

No actually we have the largest. It is however much more expensive to get out of the ground than the middle east.

Edit: Sorry Misread your post(7 beers). New O has a ton of refineries/facilities for offshore platforms. Oil prices would be significantly lower if oil compaies would spend the capital on sour refineries but they are making money hand over fist without them. Oil in the middle east wont last for ever and the US will bw begging us to show them our non conventional techniques. CBM, SAGD etc.

[RedMan12]

Most of America's wars have been about economics or power but they often put up a front or other excuses. Not about expelling evil from the world. That's the front they like to use.

American Revolution: American colonies are getting to harshly taxed by England so they revolt and make their own country. They claim its for religious freedom and all men are equal. Most American revolutionairies were slave owners.

Civil War: If the south recieded textile industry in the north would fail because the south would control all the cotton. 3 or 4 years after the war is started the North claims they are freeing the slaves and that is the cause of war.

World War II: America refuised to send troops to aid the allies. America cuts off trade with Japan. Japan feels they have 3 years they can survive without trading with America and decide war is the only answer. After bombing Pearl Harbor America decides its ok to enter WWII.

Vietnam: America is afraid if Vietnam falls to Connunism that it will create a Domino effect and more countries would become Communist. America would no longer be the world power if most countries fell to connunism.

Iraq: Irag has Weapons Mass Destruction or alot of oil. America still hasn't found the first one.

[icarus]

Originally Posted by RedMan12

but there is no Oil in New Orleans.

But only Texas refines more barrels per day in the US than Louisiana.

[Daradon]

Personally, I just don't like the hypocracy of the government, and I've said this before in other threads. (And I've cried against it when it's applicable for Canadian government too)

Yes all governements do bad things, and many other governments in thrid world nations do WORSE things.

However, even when terrorist organizations or governments do something, they do it for their (or their gods) own glory. hey make no qualms about their motivations and their beliefs.

Whereas the U.S. government goes about it's own thing, creating haovk for it's own reasons and passes it off as 'creating freedom and democracy' or 'helping other nations peoples'.

I can do without the double standards and the hypocracy thanks.

It's not the people I have a problem with, I know lots of Americans. It's the government.

But when the people vote in a government like that, (TWICE!) and then are too lazy to speak out against it (even though the approval rating is in the toliet) then you have to wonder about the people at large.

No, not all Amercians are lazy (stupid, ugly), to use Fotze's point, which is a very good one. But if the majority is going to behave like they do, then they better be open to critisicm. And if the rest don't like it, then they should do their best to change it or educate their brethern.